Pre Breakfast ride

BobScarle

Last week I had a bit of a coaching session. As I am trying to get rid of some unwanted weight I was advised to try a morning ride before breakfast. Get up, drink a cup of coffee (or have a caffeine tab) and ride for around an hour. I have a 17 mile loop that I do lunch times in just short of an hour so that sounded perfect.

This morning I did the first ride, 17 miles in just under the hour. Felt a little short on some of the climbs but mostly Ok. Back home, cup of tea (much better than coffee) and two pieces of toast and I feel great.

I believe the rationale behind the ride is that before breakfast the body has depleted glycogen stores and will use fat as it's primary fuel source. Can anybody confirm this or am I wide of the mark? What I do not understand is the role caffeine plays in this. Again, is there anybody who can explain this? The last question is, does anybody else ride fasted, and if so, do you find it works?

danowat

As long as the intensity is low enough, then yes.

Grill

You'll be fine. I used to do 2 hours in the gym before breakfast (1 hour weights and 1 hour cardio) and never had an issue. If you crap out from an hour early exercise at any time of day then general fitness needs a lot of work.

thegreatdivide

Porridge before bed then up with the larks, a swift double esspresso then off for a 25 mile loop in Zone 1. Home for a shower, another bowl of porridge then off to work.

Grill

thegreatdivide wrote:

Porridge before bed then up with the larks, a swift double esspresso then off for a 25 mile loop in Zone 1. Home for a shower, another bowl of porridge then off to work.

Never eat porridge before bed. Oats are slow-digesting carbs and if it's not burned (and it won't be during sleep) the excess calories will be stored as fat.

Casein Protein is your best bet before bed as it has an excellent amino acid profile that will feed your muscles overnight as it takes up to 7 hours to be absorbed by the body making it ideal for before bed.

BobScarle

I am not worried about the ride, I enjoyed it. I just do not fully understand the science behind it.

thegreatdivide. So somebody else that has coffee but no food before a ride.

Why does the coffee help? OK, so I know about waking you up but what is the benefit of having coffee before exercise? Now that's two people who have said about a steady pace. This morning I rode as I would do on a normal ride and did not try to keep in zone 1.

danowat

Grill wrote:

Never eat porridge before bed. Oats are slow-digesting carbs and if it's not burned (and it won't be during sleep) the excess calories will be stored as fat.

Not if your Glycogen stores are low, your body can, and will, replace those overnight, plus there calories are always burned at night due to your BMR.

BobScarle wrote:

I am not worried about the ride, I enjoyed it. I just do not fully understand the science behind it.

thegreatdivide. So somebody else that has coffee but no food before a ride.

Why does the coffee help? OK, so I know about waking you up but what is the benefit of having coffee before exercise? Now that's two people who have said about a steady pace. This morning I rode as I would do on a normal ride and did not try to keep in zone 1.

I'd have said a steady 90min Z2 ride is about perfect for a fasted ride.

Grill

@bob- Caffeine is a stimulant. It gives you extra stamina and increases your heart rate, improving blood flow from the heart to the rest of your body. Caffeine is ergogenic, helping you to perform difficult physical tasks by eliminating fatigue. It also increases the amount of adrenaline in your system, causing a rush of extra glucose and oxygen to your muscles.

Source: http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/fitness/weight-loss/consuming-caffeine-before-working-out.html#b


@danowat- There's no reason that glycogen should be low if you've eaten properly throughout the day, especially as you should be eating slow-release carbs for dinner anyway.

danowat

Grill wrote:

@danowat- There's no reason that glycogen should be low if you've eaten properly throughout the day, especially as you should be eating slow-release carbs for dinner anyway.

Depends how much training/racing you do.........

Grill

If you're that heavy into your training/racing then you probably have a good sense of dietary requirement and will end up ingesting protein before bed anyways.

Barteos

The reason why you're able to exercise on empty stomach in the morning is not extra mobilisation of fat stores but the fact that your body uses glycogen left from the last meal(s) the day before.
If it didn't you'd bonk or riding would feel unpleasant. Bonking deliberately to loose weight is a silly think to do.

You'll burn more fat by eating properly and cranking up the intensity.

thegreatdivide

Grill wrote:

Never eat porridge before bed. Oats are slow-digesting carbs and if it's not burned (and it won't be during sleep) the excess calories will be stored as fat.

I’ve been eating porridge before bed to prep for morning rides for quite some time and I’m 65kg and dropping. Seems to be working for me!

nwmlarge

i cycle to work 16miles prior to eating or drinking anything and it has helped to reduce fat.

Grill

thegreatdivide wrote:

Grill wrote:

Never eat porridge before bed. Oats are slow-digesting carbs and if it's not burned (and it won't be during sleep) the excess calories will be stored as fat.

I’ve been eating porridge before bed to prep for morning rides for quite some time and I’m 65kg and dropping. Seems to be working for me!

I have protein before bed and have gone from 76kg to 67kg in 6 weeks.

All it proves is everybody is different (diet, metabolism, exercise routine, etc), but as a general rule you should avoid carbs before bed. Carb loading is a myth and always has been as your body can only store so much glycogen.

Put it this way; overnight would you rather your body work to burn excess carbs, or use the protein at its disposal to repair muscles?

rodgers73

BobScarle wrote:

Last week I had a bit of a coaching session. As I am trying to get rid of some unwanted weight I was advised to try a morning ride before breakfast. Get up, drink a cup of coffee (or have a caffeine tab) and ride for around an hour. I have a 17 mile loop that I do lunch times in just short of an hour so that sounded perfect.

This morning I did the first ride, 17 miles in just under the hour. Felt a little short on some of the climbs but mostly Ok. Back home, cup of tea (much better than coffee) and two pieces of toast and I feel great.

I believe the rationale behind the ride is that before breakfast the body has depleted glycogen stores and will use fat as it's primary fuel source. Can anybody confirm this or am I wide of the mark? What I do not understand is the role caffeine plays in this. Again, is there anybody who can explain this? The last question is, does anybody else ride fasted, and if so, do you find it works?

There was an article in Cycling Plus/Cycling Active last year called "Switch on The Fat Burner" that suggested doing this sort of thing - i.e. riding before having eaten anything in the day to get rid of fat.

So, your coach isn't just making it up as he goes along.

I can't vouch for the science itself though.

craker

thegreatdivide wrote:

... then off for a 25 mile loop in Zone 1. Home for a shower, another bowl of porridge then off to work.

How an earth can you ride for 25 miles in Zone 1?

I've sometimes thought about trying low hr recovery rides but it kills the fun for me tbh. And I'd have to try really hard to ride up any sort of hill in Z2.

thegreatdivide

craker wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

... then off for a 25 mile loop in Zone 1. Home for a shower, another bowl of porridge then off to work.

How an earth can you ride for 25 miles in Zone 1?
I've sometimes thought about trying low hr recovery rides but it kills the fun for me tbh. And I'd have to try really hard to ride up any sort of hill in Z2.

I use a 25 mile almost pan flat route so I can happily spin along enjoying the countryside and the silence. I only get to do about 2 of these a week. The rest of the time it’s post work fast club runs or big jaunts at the weekend.

Southbound

From my experience I tend to find the coffee has no scientific explanation other than clearing the cobwebs and getting me out the front door!

t.m.h.n.e.t

Grill wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Porridge before bed then up with the larks, a swift double esspresso then off for a 25 mile loop in Zone 1. Home for a shower, another bowl of porridge then off to work.

Never eat porridge before bed. Oats are slow-digesting carbs and if it's not burned (and it won't be during sleep) the excess calories will be stored as fat.

Casein Protein is your best bet before bed as it has an excellent amino acid profile that will feed your muscles overnight as it takes up to 7 hours to be absorbed by the body making it ideal for before bed.

It matters not when you eat, as long as you eat within your daily calorie goal. Do you live on air only during sleep or something?

diy

If you are trying to shed weight, I'd have a go at a 5/2 fasting diet (or alternate 2nd day). 2 days a week you must eat no more then 450-500 cal. The rest you can eat what you like.

I don't perform very well on carb-free exercise, so prefer to fit my fasting days in to my rest days. I've been on this for a couple of weeks (not to lose weight, but to lower my cholesterol) I'm down about 1/2 stone in the first 2 weeks and wasn't really much more than that over optimum anyway.

gloomyandy

When it comes to heart rate zones the first thing is to establish which system people are using. There seem to be systems with 4, 5 and 6 zones of different sizes. So one persons zone 1 may be another's zone 2.

AllezGaz

I also read an article about pre breakfast rides, which I did my first this morning, and it also says not to eat until 40 mins after you finish the ride. I was hank Martin by then, but then I also did 79miles yesterday so body was still on a calorie deficit!

BobScarle

Barteos wrote:

..... is not extra mobilisation of fat stores.....

This seems to fly in the face of a lot of current thinking. Can you give a reference to this? I have been reading a fair bit about pre-breakfast riding and all of the articles that I have read talk about using fat as the primary fuel. The caffeine acts as a blocker, encouraging the body to use fat instead of glycogen.

I realise that it would be foolhardy to deliberately bonk, but that is not the idea. The ride is short, around an hour, and fairly low in intensity. Glycogen stores are depleted but not empty.

Barteos wrote:

You'll burn more fat by eating properly and cranking up the intensity

"Upping the intensity" will help fitness but will not burn fat. The body likes to burn glycogen and will do as a matter of preference. I would be interested though, if you could supply a reference for this.