cyclists are much more badly behaved

ilm_zero7

It no surprise that a motoring mag, Auto Express, has a survey which reveals cyclists are much more badly behaved

"A street survey by Auto Express compared rule breaking by cyclists and motorists to find out. We witnessed more than 1,000 breaches of road rules in a two-hour morning rush hour period. These were committed by three quarters of the cyclists but only one in 10 drivers.

Illegal antics including jumping the lights – committed by six per cent of cyclists compared to 0.4 per cent of cars - and mounting the pavement, which we witnessed 16 times by cyclists in two hours.

Our researchers spotted 976 cyclists between 7.30am and 9.30am on a Monday morning at Highbury Corner in Islington, North London, 719 of which committed offences. In total, 3,140 cars passed during the same time period, with 380 caught breaking road rules."

you may say it is biased, and motorists perceptions of cyclists need to be addressed, but cyclists have to clean up their act too. if you read the article there are many things which clearly some cyclists do, and give all cyclists a bad name by doing so.

StillGoing

Hmm how many were on their mobile phones, applying make-up, not wearing seat belts, disqualified or had no licence, no insurance etc. Not all offences are visible to the observer.

thistle_

I'm surprised only 1 in 10 motor vehicles broke a 'road rule'. Would be interesting to know what they were checking against.

Agree though that jumping red lights and riding on pavements doesn't help cyclists gain respect from other road users.

Wirral_paul

380 of 3140 cars - thats closer to 1 in 8 than 1 in 10.

Somehow I get the feeling that the "red light jumpers" will include a high proportion who went over the line and stopped at the front of the queue.

Not that the motoring mag is in any way biased of course!! Very poor journalism imho - trying to belittle the driving offences of 12% of commuters in their 1 ton metal cocoons by comparing it to cyclists on 10kg of metal

PS not condoning the behaviour of the communters, who i'm sure we all know are the worst offenders when it comes to cyclists, but how many lives other than their own did the rule breaking endanger in that 2hr period?

DarrenGTi

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

smashed

I am sure they were not speed checking every part of the journey.

What offence were they expecting at a junction in London? It is all about what people can get away with.

Our journalist watched 2 hours of footage on the A1. 99.999% of offences were from drivers, speeding, illegal lane changes, no insurance, no lights, blah blah, and 1 cyclist was seen picking his nose.

You can pick a site to suit...but yes, some cyclists do ask for it.

jibberjim

DarrenGTi wrote:

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

Ride a different route - you're a tosser who breaks the laws in a misguided idea that they don't apply to you with a justification to yourself that it's "safer" and "better". You're just an rude idiot.

DarrenGTi

jibberjim wrote:

DarrenGTi wrote:

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

Ride a different route - you're a tosser who breaks the laws in a misguided idea that they don't apply to you with a justification to yourself that it's "safer" and "better". You're just an rude idiot.

Maybe you should stand on your soapbox and tell all the others who do it they're tossers too. You shouldn't post so aggressively unless you know what you're talking about. That is the safest route without taking an unreasonably long detour and is used by many.

ilm_zero7

DarrenGTi wrote:

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

Oh well done mate - so youre one of the ones who gives cause for and legitimises aggression towards cyclists.. as for "safer" for who? clearly not the pedestrians who you endanger, and if you positioning out of blind spotsetc was better you would be perfectly safe at a red light - stopped!

crescent

DarrenGTi wrote:

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

I won't resort to name calling but you are in the wrong. The rules of the road are for everyone not just when it suits you to adhere to them. You may think it is not doing any harm jumping a red light but remember everyone else is using anticipation to gauge what is happening at the junction. Anticipation is a skill that comes with experience, what used to be referred to as road sense. Once someone breaks with convention (by going through a red light for example) it affects everyone's perception of a given situation. To say it is safer for you to do this is ridiculous in the extreme. If you can't ride on the road safely maybe you should stick to the pavement all the time.

DarrenGTi

Oh I get it, everyone becomes a hypocrite because the noob is brave enough to be honest. As I've read in many other posts there are people who break various rules of the road in/on their various modes of transport. Heck, I might even do 80mph down the motorway, shoot me down, but don't tell me you haven't done the same once in your life.

And maybe I should change the jumping a red light to anticipation. I have seen the other lane slowing as their lights change to amber then red so I set off just before the change to get a jump on the traffic.

When out on a leisure ride it is different, red lights are obeyed and pavements avoided. Halo restored?

bails87

I wonder if ASL abusing drivers were classed as "breaking the rules"? That, speeding and using mobile phones are the most common things I see drivers doing. Doesn't excuse the cyclists breaking the law, but it's a p155 poor 'survey'.

Still, at least when someone says "all cyclists jump red lights" we can point to Auto Express and say that it's actually only 6% versus the 80% of drivers that the RAC reported broke the speed limit

cookeeemonster

DarrenGTi wrote:

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

sorry but don't agree with this - you are either a bad cyclist needing training or your route is so terrible for cyclists that you'd be far better off choosing a new one rather than p*ssing off everyone else by blatantly breaking the rules to suit you...or maybe if I viewed you doing all this I'd see that the pavement you ride on is empty and the red light jumping you do is more like going over the white line to get ahead of the traffic rather than full on light jumping at full pelt...either way, why did I post this, noone ever takes the slightest bit of notice of an internet forum, they just do what the hell they like. what a waste of 2 minutes... :P

slowbike

jibberjim wrote:

DarrenGTi wrote:

I cycle to work and both jump lights and ride on the pavement. It is much safer that way. I jump the lights so I'm not battling the traffic on a big busy roundabout then use the pavement so I stay off a piece of dual carriageway. The rules of the road should perhaps by more friendly towards cyclists.

Ride a different route - you're a tosser who breaks the laws in a misguided idea that they don't apply to you with a justification to yourself that it's "safer" and "better". You're just an rude idiot.

Amazing how you can judge someone so well with so little information.

Jumping red lights - ok, generally not a good idea and it is against the law - however, there may be a good reason for doing it - as he can achieve the same affect by getting off his bike and legally walking it to the other side of the red light before getting on again perhaps that would be better overall?

riding on the pavement - some roads are just a menace when it comes to cycling - especially dual carriageways - where motorists are doing several times our speeds with other vehicles in close proximity. There is often a little used footpath to the side - I for one would opt for the footpath, giving priority to pedestrians of course - yer, technically it is breaking the law, but only because the council haven't painted a flippin bike on the pavement ...

rolf_f

Autotoilet wrote:

Our researchers spotted 976 cyclists between 7.30am and 9.30am on a Monday morning at Highbury Corner in Islington, North London, 719 of which committed offences.

I simply don't believe that. 719 offences out of 976? Really?

Autotoilet wrote:

Illegal antics including jumping the lights – committed by six per cent of cyclists compared to 0.4 per cent of cars - and mounting the pavement, which we witnessed 16 times by cyclists in two hours.

So, 6 percent of 976 implies roughly about 50 RLJs and we have 16 pavement mountings so about 66 specific offences in total. So what exactly where the other 650 offending cyclists doing?

I smell BS.......

cookdn

Here is the link to the original article:

Auto Express - Cyclists break more road rules than motorists

Not exactly scientific is it. I think the accompanying illustration demonstrates the journalistic intent of the article. :roll:

Best regards
David

[Edit] The majority of the associated comments on the Auto Express site are scathing of the article.

DavidJB

DarrenGTi wrote:

Oh I get it, everyone becomes a hypocrite because the noob is brave enough to be honest. As I've read in many other posts there are people who break various rules of the road in/on their various modes of transport. Heck, I might even do 80mph down the motorway, shoot me down, but don't tell me you haven't done the same once in your life.

And maybe I should change the jumping a red light to anticipation. I have seen the other lane slowing as their lights change to amber then red so I set off just before the change to get a jump on the traffic.

When out on a leisure ride it is different, red lights are obeyed and pavements avoided. Halo restored?

I don't think you do get it though do you?

El Zomba

I love the way that all these articles, regardless of stance, are all London-centric. Seeing as I neither live nor work in London, my attitudes towards this sort of journalism are somewhat laissez-faire, to say the least.

Besides, personal experience generally dictates that everyone in London, regardless of who they are or what they are doing, is generally a bit of a dick anyway.

BelgianBeerGeek

Rolf F wrote:

Autotoilet wrote:

Our researchers spotted 976 cyclists between 7.30am and 9.30am on a Monday morning at Highbury Corner in Islington, North London, 719 of which committed offences.

I simply don't believe that. 719 offences out of 976? Really?

Autotoilet wrote:

Illegal antics including jumping the lights – committed by six per cent of cyclists compared to 0.4 per cent of cars - and mounting the pavement, which we witnessed 16 times by cyclists in two hours.

So, 6 percent of 976 implies roughly about 50 RLJs and we have 16 pavement mountings so about 66 specific offences in total. So what exactly where the other 650 offending cyclists doing?

I smell BS.......

Is it not more a case of comparing apples with pears? OK, some cyclists mounted the kerb, fewer cars did. Is that really surprising? I suppose if you set out to see how many road users mount the kerb then more cyclists would than cars. How many of those cars exceeded the speed limit, breaking the law, compared to cycles. What you would expect from a motoring rag, though.
ps can anyone explain to me how mounting a kerb is an "illegal activity"?

thegibdog

I see car drivers breaking the law every day but rarely see cyclists breaking the law. Maybe I should make an article out of it.

nickellis

I had a classic this morning. Myself and a geezer riding a fixie (a wearing headphones and no helmet) approached a set of lights, Mr. Fixie decided to ride down the outside of the traffic (no problem there) at which point he passed a Motorbike Fed sitting at the lights. Rolled over the ASL, the pedestian crossing, and did a trackstand in the middle of the junction.

Once traffic had cleared he pi$$ed off down the road. The lights went green, I went like a bat out of hell the catch him, knowing he'd get bollocked by the policeman.

Policeman rides up next to him, shakes his head, then speeds off :evil: . Obviously late for a shift change.

I was gutted!!! But seriously, how dumb do you have to be to do that in front of and officer of the law. There is no way he could have failed to spot the policeman, we had to jink round the back of his bike.

wormo

I think it fair to say that the survey is a load of tosh. I do however think cyclists do come over as having double standards by moaning about car drivers and in next breath saying that they jump red lights or do other hings (btw not saying anyone on this particular thread has done this before dummies are spat out). If we want more credibilty with other road users and pedestrians we need to be seen to following the rules of the road. Why is a driver going to change their driving standards when they see cyclists flouting the law, its just not going to work.

The only real way to improve the situation is to design city centres and other roads with the car not being the priority rather than trying to shoe horn in cycle lanes on the roads.

rolf_f

Rolf F wrote:

Autotoilet wrote:

Our researchers spotted 976 cyclists between 7.30am and 9.30am on a Monday morning at Highbury Corner in Islington, North London, 719 of which committed offences.

I simply don't believe that. 719 offences out of 976? Really?

Autotoilet wrote:

Illegal antics including jumping the lights – committed by six per cent of cyclists compared to 0.4 per cent of cars - and mounting the pavement, which we witnessed 16 times by cyclists in two hours.

So, 6 percent of 976 implies roughly about 50 RLJs and we have 16 pavement mountings so about 66 specific offences in total. So what exactly where the other 650 offending cyclists doing?

I smell BS.......

Apologies for quoting myself but I had a quick look at Auto Express in Smiths and the article is so poor as to be barely worth commenting on.

In answer to my own question about the 'Illegal antics' of the 650 cyclists who were not RLJ or curb hopping the breakdown is roughly as follows.

290 odd were illegally not wearing any reflective clothing (though how you can assess the presence of reflective clothing of 1000 cyclists in daylight I don't know

Another 3 figure sum were 'potentially casuing collisions by swerving etc' - I wonder if they checked if there was a pothole present

Another large chunk were not indicating though in heavy traffic it might have not been safe to.

90 were illegally riding without helmets (actually, they do acknowledge that this, and the reflective issue actually isn't illegal but they don't say that this means that there observation that 719 cyclists committed 'offences' is a straightforward lie).

Another large proportion apparently pulled out of junctions without looking - which seems highly unlikely unless they knew the traffic light sequences.

Another large number of offences were down to cyclists wearing headphones though there was no breakdown to determine how many were still able to hear ambient noises.

Basically, this is as bad a piece of sub Daily Mail journalism as you will find anywhere. Not the slightest attempt to actually assess the junction from the pov of the cyclist. It just goes to show that no matter how thick you are, there is a potential career awaiting you in journalism.

the_cyclist_of_catan

I've just driven along the M6; a darned sight more than 10% of the car drivers were going faster than 70mph.

cookeeemonster

shocking so called 'journalism'.

just...so wrong on every possible level (apart from the RLJ's and pavement riders obviously)

BelgianBeerGeek

All good stuff to help the "beleaguered motorist" feel that someone is on their side. Cycling scum...

bails87

So loads of cyclists break the law, especially if you count things that aren't against the law as "breaking the law".

Oddly enough there was no count of drivers who were drunk, tired, uninsured, un-seatbelted or cars that had faulty brake lights, haedlights, indicators, bald tyres, cracked windscreens, empty washer bottles, worn brake pads, were untaxed or MOTed......

I'm not sure how 'pulling out without looking' is defined. Seeing as we often have a better awareness of what's going on due to no soundproofing and pillars to block our view, we can usually make the 'stop or go' decision sooner than if we were in a car. Is this being counted as 'not looking'? I suppose we'll never know.

max1234

I walk to work through central London (only 2.5 miles so not worth cycling) and see so many riders jumping red lights and riding on the pavements. There's a right turn after Chelsea bridge where it's normal to see (and have to dodge) packs of riders going past when it's red and pedestians are crossing - it does seem we lose a lot from the (often valid) argument with cars when there are so many dangerous cyclists who think pedestrians should have to jump out of their way....

dw300

99% of motorists speed, or don't indicate properly during most journeys. /thread

bails87

max1234 wrote:

I walk to work through central London (only 2.5 miles so not worth cycling) and see so many riders jumping red lights and riding on the pavements.

5.9% and 1.6% of riders respectively, apparently.

Wirral_paul

bails87 wrote:

What a complete and utter pile of rubbish!! Since when has reflective clothing and helmets been law? Almost causing a collision isnt a law, and neither to my knowledge is wearing headphones! Eating is fine as there's no law against having two hands on the bars.