Cycle Scheme Query

disgruntledgoat
disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
edited August 2012 in The cake stop
Knowing you lot are some of the most devious minds in the world, I thought I'd come here for some advice on skullduggery.

My wife wants a bike. I want a new pair of swanky shoes for racing. Cycle Scheme offers me a cost effective route to do both! She has picked out a bike, and I'm now at the stage of ordering it and paying a deposit... My only qualm is how to square the circle that I'm ordering a budget womans road bike and a pair of £200 shoes in size 12... Do I try and clear it with work first? Do I (given the shop aren't bothered) just sling the quote in and hope for the best?

Help me oh cake stop!
"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

@gietvangent

Comments

  • lc1981
    lc1981 Posts: 820
    So your question is, how should I go about committing fraud?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    lc1981 wrote:
    So your question is, how should I go about committing fraud?

    Pretty much.

    Except there is literally no victim to it, is there?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,218
    If she is using the bike to commute to work and you will be using your shoes for riding to work there's probably nothing 'wrong' in this although it's probably against the rules of the scheme as your employer will own your wife's bike who is not one of their employees.

    I didn't think you needed a quote for C2W schemes, you just need to know how much you need on the voucher value. It might be a requirement from your employer though so they aren't just giving away vouchers willy nilly. When I did mine many moons ago I got a quote but nobody ever asked to see it.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    The way our process works is to get a quote from the vendor then submit it to HR for approval...

    As one of about 30 people who have taken up the cycle scheme in the business and one of about 5 who commute by bike, I feel somewhat justified.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • lc1981
    lc1981 Posts: 820
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    So your question is, how should I go about committing fraud?

    Pretty much.

    Except there is literally no victim to it, is there?

    Honest taxpayers, perhaps?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    So it's acceptable for me to get a bike to cycle to work on at a cost to the national insurance pot of approximately £150 but unacceptable for me to get my wife a bike to cycle to work on (who's employer does not participate)? Despite the fact that I commute by bike 5 days a week and would wear my nice new shoes at least 2 of those (before I head to the club 10/chainy)? If the bike is used for it's intended purpose, does it matter by whom it is used?

    Explain how the tax payer loses out here...
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • lc1981
    lc1981 Posts: 820
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    If the bike is used for it's intended purpose, does it matter by whom it is used?

    According to the rules of the scheme it does, but I accept that it's perhaps less questionable given that you wife doesn't have access to the scheme because of her employer.
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Explain how the tax payer loses out here...

    They lose out compared to the situation in which you play by the rules.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    lc1981 wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    If the bike is used for it's intended purpose, does it matter by whom it is used?

    According to the rules of the scheme it does, but I accept that it's perhaps less questionable given that you wife doesn't have access to the scheme because of her employer.
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Explain how the tax payer loses out here...

    They lose out compared to the situation in which you play by the rules.

    So the taxpayer loses out on national insurance contributions on the portion of my income given over to the Cycle Scheme. Agreed. However, were it possible, they'd be losing out on Mrs. Goat's anyway.

    EDIT: Nowhere in my company's policy does it say the hiree has to be the user. Merely that 50% of the bikes useage should be for "travel to a place of work". (my bold)
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • lc1981
    lc1981 Posts: 820
    disgruntledgoat wrote:

    So the taxpayer loses out on national insurance contributions on the portion of my income given over to the Cycle Scheme. Agreed. However, were it possible, they'd be losing out on Mrs. Goat's anyway.

    EDIT: Nowhere in my company's policy does it say the hiree has to be the user. Merely that 50% of the bikes useage should be for "travel to a place of work". (my bold)

    Fair doos - your intentions seem more honourable than my reading of your first post suggested, which was that you simply wanted to get some tax-free shoes for racing in (though I still think that part is more dodgy morally than the bike for Mrs. Goat part).
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    lc1981 wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:

    So the taxpayer loses out on national insurance contributions on the portion of my income given over to the Cycle Scheme. Agreed. However, were it possible, they'd be losing out on Mrs. Goat's anyway.

    EDIT: Nowhere in my company's policy does it say the hiree has to be the user. Merely that 50% of the bikes useage should be for "travel to a place of work". (my bold)

    Fair doos - your intentions seem more honourable than my reading of your first post suggested, which was that you simply wanted to get some tax-free shoes for racing in (though I still think that part is more dodgy morally than the bike for Mrs. Goat part).

    I just wanted to sound like a big shot.

    Plus spending however much on a bike simply to get discount shoes seems economically unattractive even to my simple mind.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    So it's acceptable for me to get a bike to cycle to work on at a cost to the national insurance pot of approximately £150 but unacceptable for me to get my wife a bike to cycle to work on (who's employer does not participate)? Despite the fact that I commute by bike 5 days a week and would wear my nice new shoes at least 2 of those (before I head to the club 10/chainy)? If the bike is used for it's intended purpose, does it matter by whom it is used?

    Explain how the tax payer loses out here...

    The taxpayer doesn't lose out to any meaningful degree. I should think HMRC has more to worry about with the super wealthy and massive corporations avoiding payments of billions of pounds per year rather than a couple of quid in NI that you're avoiding. When I bought my ride to work bike a few years ago I bought a pair of RS80 wheels for my club run bike and various other bits and pieces that I knew I wouldn't be using for riding to work, neither my employer or the retailer batted an eyelid. I should think everyone involved has bigger fish to fry, there are far, far bigger scams going on out there!
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    So your question is, how should I go about committing fraud?

    Pretty much.

    Except there is literally no victim to it, is there?


    No victim?

    Well what about me and every other taxpayer who loses out by your (and other's) fraud?

    Tax fraud is hardly a victimless crime, it means others have to pay more tax to make up for the fraudsters
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Lots of "holier than thou" responses ...

    I wonder what they'd do if they found £10 on the pavement ... or £20 ... or a few £20's ...

    Of course the right answer in all cases would be to pass it on to the Police as lost property ...

    As long as you're not breaking the C2W rules then go ahead ... it's there as an incentive to make buying bikes cheaper to enable us to ride into work instead of driving ...
    Oh - and shoes are essential .. mine got soaked last night - this morning I wish I had a second pair ...
  • Twelly
    Twelly Posts: 1,437
    spen666 wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    So your question is, how should I go about committing fraud?

    Pretty much.

    Except there is literally no victim to it, is there?


    No victim?

    Well what about me and every other taxpayer who loses out by your (and other's) fraud?

    Tax fraud is hardly a victimless crime, it means others have to pay more tax to make up for the fraudsters

    Stop vomiting whatever phrases the Daily Mail has thrown at you. The only way Joe Bloggs - Tax Payer will lose out from C2W 'fraud' is if the government uses the fact that people are taking advantage of the scheme (ie. buying £1k full sus MTB's for weekend play time rather that commuting) to shut the scheme down, meaning no one gets the benefits of the scheme and the incentive to ride to work.

    OP: The scheme is for people cycling to work. You are intending to buy a bike for someone to cycle to work on therefore lowering that persons carbon footprint, increasing that persons fitness and well being, reducing traffic and giving the employer 'green' brownie points by taking part - all of the things the C2W set out to do. You are breaking the 'official' rules but in the best possible way. Up to you whether you go ahead or not, I doubt you will get called up on it though.
    Epic Threads
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    TwellySmat wrote:
    spen666 wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    So your question is, how should I go about committing fraud?

    Pretty much.

    Except there is literally no victim to it, is there?


    No victim?

    Well what about me and every other taxpayer who loses out by your (and other's) fraud?

    Tax fraud is hardly a victimless crime, it means others have to pay more tax to make up for the fraudsters

    Stop vomiting whatever phrases the Daily Mail has thrown at you. The only way Joe Bloggs - Tax Payer will lose out from C2W 'fraud' is if the government uses the fact that people are taking advantage of the scheme (ie. buying £1k full sus MTB's for weekend play time rather that commuting) to shut the scheme down, meaning no one gets the benefits of the scheme and the incentive to ride to work.

    OP: The scheme is for people cycling to work. You are intending to buy a bike for someone to cycle to work on therefore lowering that persons carbon footprint, increasing that persons fitness and well being, reducing traffic and giving the employer 'green' brownie points by taking part - all of the things the C2W set out to do. You are breaking the 'official' rules but in the best possible way. Up to you whether you go ahead or not, I doubt you will get called up on it though.
    Exactly, in the grand scheme of tax evasion, bike to work fraud is hardly up there with the great train robbery
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • invincible
    invincible Posts: 154
    on our company scheme you only get £500 to spent but me & two others went to a local bike shop who gave us quotes for £500 bikes then when we went in to cash voucher knocked it off the bikes we wanted

    mine & another guys were only £600 but the 3rd spent £1500 & only told his wife it was a grand :wink:

    so maybe try & find a place which will do you a quote for a bike & shoes to the same price you want to spend & then just trade voucher for wifes bike & your shoes?
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    I organised the cycle to work scheme at my company (seeing as i'm the only one in it - it made sense). Do whatever dodgy methods you wish to get your wife a bike, but if it is found out and your employer isnt impressed / HMRC withdraws all the tax / NI benefits from you breaching the scheme regulations etc then you have to accept the consequences.

    Personally, i'd say if she's a 20% tax payer then the savings arent that great any more. Often better to look at interest free credit on a sale bike if possible. I wouldnt bother again myself but the scheme provided a simple way to get a £2k bike on an interest free loan effectively
  • Cleat Eastwood
    Cleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    to answer your question 2 solutions

    1. say you're post trans gender and need a womans bike

    2. say you married the living version of princess fiona off shrek.

    Either way lob the claim in - enjoy the shoes and the bike - and if you can - get us a helmet as well.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    Cleat Eastwood wrote:
    to answer your question 2 solutions

    1. say you're post trans gender and need a womans bike

    2. say you married the living version of princess fiona off shrek.

    Did those work for you then cleat?? :P :mrgreen:

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