étape pennines....

flite

Sorry -repeated a lot of what stabilised said - he just beat me to it!

RandG

Can I assume you were picked up voluntarily doughnutdad ?

DonutDad

Well i didn't question it in the end, if you are referring to an earlier post when i indicated I might.
I heard the guy saying that the signs were being taken down, so there would be no route to follow, and the day before he'd told me that riders wouldn't be able to continue if they were caught, despite the 'out of date' information on the website saying otherwise.
Everyone else got on the bus and I just didn't have the energy to make a fuss. I guess that says i did the right thing really, or I wouldn't have been in that position.
I had been riding as hard as I could before the climbing started, to try and avoid the situation, but that meant I'd overdone it. So the threat of it was kinda what made it happen in the end - such a shame I couldn't have just ridden the thing at my own pace (usually 13mph) and enjoyed what was a beautiful day.
I failed myself, the people who sponsored me, my little by who was waiting for me at the finish, and I'm gutted.
It'll probably be the first and last closed road ride I do.

whosthedaddy

Managed to get round in 8.28
First ride out since tearing calf 3 weeks before.
Was blowing after the first 10 miles and i knew I was in for a rough ride
Had to let my mate go after the 2nd feed station as I didn't think I could finish and couldn't see the point of us both being swept up. He finished in 7.40
Had to walk up the majority of the hills for the last 30 miles as I had nothing left. Cleats are wrecked
Glad I got round, but feeling disappointed as I normally do ok on the hills. Must admit though that i have never encountered anything like this before and doubt whether I would have got up some fully fit.
My GPS shows that we climbed 7926 feet
Not sure that I would enter it again as I think we got lucky with the weather.
The downhills were great, but I would imagine downright dangerous in bad weather.
No complaints about the organisation, well marshalled and good support from the motorbikes
No issue with feed stations, only took water/energy drink and banana from them.
Made sure I carried enough food with me as I had an experience from a previous ride on a MTB where food had all gone.
Returned home with chest cough, so possibly explains the lack of energy

Boleynboy

DonutDad wrote:

Well i didn't question it in the end, if you are referring to an earlier post when i indicated I might.
I heard the guy saying that the signs were being taken down, so there would be no route to follow, and the day before he'd told me that riders wouldn't be able to continue if they were caught, despite the 'out of date' information on the website saying otherwise.
Everyone else got on the bus and I just didn't have the energy to make a fuss. I guess that says i did the right thing really, or I wouldn't have been in that position.
I had been riding as hard as I could before the climbing started, to try and avoid the situation, but that meant I'd overdone it. So the threat of it was kinda what made it happen in the end - such a shame I couldn't have just ridden the thing at my own pace (usually 13mph) and enjoyed what was a beautiful day.
I failed myself, the people who sponsored me, my little by who was waiting for me at the finish, and I'm gutted.
It'll probably be the first and last closed road ride I do.

Do not be so hard on yourself mate, as I said earlier that was a tough ride, and I have completed the last two Etapes in the Alps! My legs were aching more this morning than they did in the Alps in July!
That route was not a great one for a first timer, as someone said earlier, try the Caledonia, much flatter (only one big climb)but still a challenge and lots of fun, plus great scenery.

d4evr

DonutDad try the EC, you will thoroughly enjoy it AND complete it!!

RandG

Sounds like a sh*t event to me for anyone other than a hard core rider. Suspect they may see the error of their ways next time round.

Anyone know the number entered and number of finishers ??

durhamwasp

Would also be interested to know what percentage finished? And am i right in understanding that more than 2000 people were supposed to ride it, but only 1400 turned up? So you didnt pay until you got there then?

So, what was the cut off time that you had to complete the route in? And what average speed was needed to do this.

We cycle these roads every other weekend, and thats one tough route! Some beauty climbs, esp Chapel Fell - a personal favourite. Extremely hard for somebody who doesnt do 60+ mile every weekend to complete it within a time window, and if i was paying £60 (or whatever it was?) i wouldnt want to be swept up, no matter how long it was gonna take me.

DonutDad

I've had a look at the results page and they got 1327 finishers, 78 DNFs and apparently 700 no shows.
It was £61 to enter which you (well, I at least) had to pay up front.
Average speed to avoid the drop was 13mph.
When I got picked up they were talking about phoning for a 50 seater coach!

RandG

Wonder how many of that 1327 will enter next year, cause you'd have to assume a large number of the DNF's won't, and what about the 700 no shows ? That's seems a huge number, although I suspect not all down to it being a monster route.

Omar Little

The time of year put me off entering due to the potential weather. By the time i'd decided to MTFU and do it anyway (about 10 days before) then the entries had closed. I think quite alot of others would have been put off by it being late on in the season too due to the extra expense involved.

Although that being said the Etape Caledonia had really poor weather this year so a 'better' month (May is usually pretty good in Scotland) is of course no guarantee of better weather.

d4evr

I was going to do this if work allowed, it didn't. I fully appreciated that it would be tougher than the EC and that the weather could be awful (we can get awful weather up here during any month!) at this time of year. What surprises me is that so many pulled out, almost a third?!! I can understand people baulking at the entry fee and dont enter etc. but for so many to pay up and not give it a go because of the weather (if that was the reason) then they must have more money than sense.

Taranty

My guess is that next year they will make the route easier. They simply won't get the entrants otherwise. It's hardly worth paying £60 to get closed roads if only a third can get round quickly enough to finish before the roads are opened again. I think they could have been a lot more open about how tough the route was, 5,500 ft of climbing was plain wrong, and the elevation profile was not exactly clear either. As stated above, some of the categorisations on the route map were also nonsense. I can't help wondering if they intentionally understated the difficulty to make sure they sold all the places - the organisers are a commercial entity after all.

I was lucky in that I live in Durham and had done all the big climbs twice in training so knew the route and knew what to expect. I also got plenty of rests at the top of climbs because the mate I was doing it with isn't local and clearly hadn't taken my warnings seriously enough! I really felt for all the people I could hear on the third climb thinking it was the last big one, knowing there were another two to follow, plus the very nasty sting in the tail.

Those saying what a mess it could have been in different weather are spot on. I was out there the Sunday before and it was horrific, heavy rain and must have been gusting in excess of 50mph from the West which would have been straight across the big climbs and descents. Fortunately my route only went properly high once, but I thought at the time that if it was like that on the day they'd have to change the rout. No idea how that could work with it being closed roads mind you. The weather on the day was infinitely better than other times I've been up there, even when it's been clear there's always been a good wind.

Couldn't fault the marshalling at all, thought it was excellent how they kept the motos going past even after the roads were open again. Feed stations however were poor. If you are paying more than £60 there should be a decent selection of stuff for everybody, not just those at the front. Bits of banana and shortbread didn't really cut it.

BlakeysFC

I'm seriously considering entering this for 2013.

Hoping the route is a bit easier though, this years sounds like an absolute monster from what people have said!

olwenhemmings

yup, I dropped out at 40 miles too (High Force feed station 2) due to having had a nasty cold bug for the last several weeks and quite feeling 100%, but I really enjoyed what I did!
I've done the Caledonia before, and this year done my first 100 on Islay, but this ride was in a diferent class!
Yes there were a few teething problems with the organisation - mainly car parking in the morning and road closure timings - I think in general people were not making the averages they were expecting (Except the super-fit crew at the front obviously, but for us normal mortals, it was a toughie! ) but the sighning and marshaling was fantastic, and everyone was so cheery, helpful and encouraging.
I actually enjoyed my 3 hours sitting in the sun at High Force waiting for the coach to arrive! Not so happy to have to throw my precious bike into it's boot along with the other 20 or so, all piled on top of each other! :? but the organiser guy could not have been better, keeping us updated on the bus, and buying us all a cuppa while we waited! and the rest of the bunch of us waiting for the bus were a great laugh! (if any of you are reading this, I hope you all got home safe, and the guys with varios injuries, namely backs and knees, are making good recoveries!)
The weather could not have been better for us, and I'm happy with the 40 miles I did, the scenery was stunning, the roads great and well marked and manned - and ultimately I'm chuffed to bits that I have beeten my fastest speed to date with a 46.2mph, it was all I could do to stop myself screeming "weeeeeeee" down the hill! :P and I'm pleased that I managed the up hills I did do without getting off! My 2 mates who went on to complete said it was the toughest ride they have done yet, and they even walked up the last couple of climbs (and I've never known them to get off!) so in all, it certainly was a chalenge, and I agree, not like the Caledonia that any reasonably fit normal human on a bike could complete.
A strange route choice if the main purpous was a charity ride for your average cyclist, but a great choice for chalenging 'proper cyclists' - I hope to go back and complete it some day!
Well done everyone else who took part, weather you finished or not!

whosthedaddy

DonutDad wrote:

I've had a look at the results page and they got 1327 finishers, 78 DNFs and apparently 700 no shows.
It was £61 to enter which you (well, I at least) had to pay up front.
Average speed to avoid the drop was 13mph.
When I got picked up they were talking about phoning for a 50 seater coach!

I must have been lucky as my average speed over the complete ride was less than 10 mph
Walking up the hills @ less than 3mph after 45 miles obviously had a major effect on my speed.
Half expected to get pulled out and too be honest wouldn't have put up much of a fight.
Gave the last feed station a miss as I heard from a passing rider that their timing chip was taken off them at an earlier station. Sounds very harsh to me.
At 60 miles I shed a few tears (felt such a woosy) and told myself that I must finish this and that's what I did
Would like to thank all the riders who saw me limping up the hills and asked if I was ok and my vote for courage goes to the guy who I think lost his pedal/crank and was still trying to get round. Very inspiring. It would be a brilliant story if he finished.

mtbboy101

I thought it was a great event, seriously hard but I loved the challenge. Somewhere i heard that it had some serious climbs so fitted a 11-32 cassette, ooh so glad, as it let me get up all the hills.

To those who didn't manage to finish, don't be put off. Now you have tried, you know what to expect, do some more hills in preparation over the next year and fit a wide block, you know you can do it!

(not trying to blow my own trumpet, but I've just got back into road riding this year and did the EC in 5hrs 24, and been riding as much as possible all year and manage this in 5hrs 49, so given the increase in climbing well chuffed, and feel that it shows you can do it if you want to, and are luck enough to have the time to train)

I do think the organizers need to be honest about the amount of ascent, so hopefully next year they will be (5500ft my arse, more like 7200ft according to my GPS).

As for feed stations running out of stuff that seems poor; the organisers should have enough experience from all the EC events to know how much gets eaten, but then again above the bananas and cookies it was only energy bars/ gels from zipvit, so maybe they didn't give enough freebie (there might have been other things that were long gone before i got there, do let me know, because some thing savory by the last feed station would have been good)

I will do it again next year, hope some of you who had a hard time this year will try again, it's a great challenge and indeed, makes the EC seem like a stroll in the park

Boleynboy

durhamwasp wrote:

Would also be interested to know what percentage finished? And am i right in understanding that more than 2000 people were supposed to ride it, but only 1400 turned up? So you didnt pay until you got there then?

So, what was the cut off time that you had to complete the route in? And what average speed was needed to do this.

We cycle these roads every other weekend, and thats one tough route! Some beauty climbs, esp Chapel Fell - a personal favourite. Extremely hard for somebody who doesnt do 60+ mile every weekend to complete it within a time window, and if i was paying £60 (or whatever it was?) i wouldnt want to be swept up, no matter how long it was gonna take me.

As I put in an earlier post, they had 700 no shows, people who have paid their money but did not turn up to register or ride. You always get a certain percentage not turn up for these events, but 700 is over 25% of the total who registered.
At the end of the day the organisers still get their money, but less than 1400 starters for the first closed road sportive in England is a poor show, especially as the weather forecast was so good.
As I said earlier, perhaps they all knew about those last 40 miles and thought better of it!
As for me, I would ride again next year, thought the route was awesome, a real challenge and not one to be taken lightly, although I would expect the weather we were blessed with will not be repeated, which will make a tough route really hardcore. Trust me, they would need more than a 50 seat sweeper for that one!

bianchimoon

A lot of people paid entry when it was first announced and the organisers hadn't finalised route. I was one of them, have ridden in the pennines a fair bit and expected hills but not the amount on this route.
I suspect Durham council told organisers what roads could be closed which led to it being fairly extreme for a general sportive. When you think a third of people didn't start or finish on what was an absolutely perfect day for riding, what would the attrition rate have been given poor weather?
One slightly annoying thing apart from lack of food (I was early at first station and they were letting people stuff their pockets with bars/gels) was the car parking, they said you could pre-pay for £3 or pay £5 on the day, when we tried to pre-pay we were told that the limited pre-pay spaces had gone... con!
Also if weather had been wet as previous weeks the car park/field would have been impassible, wonder what if any contingencies they had for that situation if any?

olwenhemmings

Oh I agree wholehartedly Bianchimoon! the car parking charge fiasco was a total rip off!!!
we arrived around 2pm on the Sat to register - not terribly late on considering they were open till 8pm, and couldn't get a £3 ticket. It seems crazy that they put up a gazeebo and manned it all day with two people who's only answer to any question asked them was "I dont know"!!!
I'd love to know how many £3 parking tickets were actually available! got me sooooo mad!!! :evil:
Actually, in the end we were very naughty and left without paying! - no one came over to our car on the way out and asked for money, so we just kept driving

stabilised

In relation to average speeds and 'asking' people to climb into the broom wagon, I think the organisers were pretty generous in how they interpreted the rules. The required minimum average speed they announced in advance was 13mph. For 78 miles that's completion in 6 hours. The last person on the time sheet as completing was timed at 9 hours, so 50% leeway. There is a bit of slack in that they didn't start counting until the last wave set off, so if you were starting early you should have had 6.30 or 6.45. Still, allowing up to 9 hours doesn't seem unreasonable.

Picking up anybody not going to make 6 hours would have been completely impractical, of course, as it would have involved more than half the field (including me), but I think they gave us a fair crack of the whip.

Boleynboy

The fact is they were very fortunate with the weather on those roads. Yes it was cold for the first 20 mins but other than that the sun shone and the wind was almost non-existent, even at the top of the big climbs. Even though I had not ridden in this area before I guessed we were being blessed with the conditions, they were almost to good to be true. If it had been wet and windy the attrition(and accident) rate would have been very high, and the organisers could have had a serious problem on their hands!
As for the parking debacle, I rode to the registration on the Saturday afternoon and guessed that there would be problems Sunday morning with only one road in. I rode in on the Sunday morning and my fears were confirmed as I rode pass a long que of stationary cars. Charging people £5 to park at an event they have already forked out for, in what looked to me as a unsuitable, overgrown field, was really taking the ****!

shisaa

I thought it was a fantastic ride, beautiful scenery with great weather and the fastest descents I've ever ridden. I was hitting 70 and 80 kph and was being passed on some descents.

My garmin clocked around 2500m of ascent, which isn't ridiculous, but it was packed into a relatively short course at only 77 miles, and the climbing only really started after around 30 miles, and continued right until the very end. With different weather conditions it could have been very tough indeed.

Despite the problems with the parking charges and queues to get in though and the challenging course, I thought it was well organised, well marshalled on properly closed roads, in a beautiful part of the country.

Red_Pooley

I was one of the 700 who had entered but didnt turn up. An enforced absence due to a commuting crash 3 weeks ago sustaining a broken arm. So was gutted to miss out on the ride with some club mates in a superb and unheralded area. I knew that it was a challenging route having ridden the High Moors Sportive (177km >3000m climb usually in June) and done some of pyrenees training in the tees & wear dales. But agree that organisers should be able to get the climbing totals more accurate, so that entrants have a better idea of the challenge ahead.
As some have said early Oct is a bit of a lottery with the weather, so maybe bringing forward a few weeks to end of Sept would be better. Personally i wouldnt want to see the route made any easier, but make sure the participants are fully aware of the challenge.
I will just have to sign up again for next year.

canyon boy

I think they got very lucky with the weather this year. If the wind had been really strong, it could have been a disaster. The course was also underplayed by the organisers because my Garmin showed well over 8000 feet of climbing and some of the hills were very steep and long. Next year they will have to make it an easier route, if they want people to re-enter.
I didn't have time to ride the course before the event and so based on the info given made the wrong choice of gearing which caused me to cramp very badly on 3 of the hills. I luckily managed to carry on and finish in one of the days fastest times. I say this not to brag but to let people know that even the stronger riders suffered due to poor information and a very hard course.
On a positive note, I thought the marshaling was very good and the scenery was stunning!.

SgtPain45

To all the cyclists who stopped around the 45 mile mark, (St John's Chapel) to help the Event marshal that had a seizure I would like to say thank you. He was taken to hospital where he was treated for a mild concussion and has now made a full recovery...

[Deleted User]

Hi all. New to these forums, I am more normally to be found hanging around motorbike forums, but I wanted to post on this thread as I completed this event on Sunday.

It was by far the hardest event, running or cycling that I have ever done. I think a lot of people (me included) were undertrained for this event, but even so, I was surprised to see quite a few people walking at the first big hill after 3 miles or so. I personally found this hill a nice warm up on a very cold morning. The following 40 miles or so was lovely. Nice steady pace, stunning weather and scenery, the odd lump in the road but nothing too significant. From the 45 to 60 mile point was hellish, and I could not push the 39/26 I was riding, so had to stop and walk the steeper sections. The worst was not the KOM section, but the section immediately after the food stop, just kept going up and up. At the 60 mile point, if I could have stopped and got the sweep bus I probably would have. No sign of it though, and once I started pressing on I was glad I did. The run from about 60 - 70 miles was mostly downhill, so bit of recovery. One last walk up the final hill, then a surprising fast run to the finish considering how shattered I felt. Roads were open at this point but I can't recall any traffic.

I finished in 7:19, at an average of 10.4 mph. My cycling average was 14mph until I had to walk. You just lose so much time once you stop. My minimum speed when actually on the bike was 6mph, but my walking speed was 2-3mph. I am glad I changed my bike over to SPDs for this event. Felt sorry for the people walking on look cleats.

Considering how dreadful I felt, I loved this event. Can't wait til next year, so I hope they keep the course the same. Next year I will have a smaller belly and compact gearing. Highlight for me was hitting 52mph, a record for me. I agree with others, if the weather was bad there would have been trouble as people were generally underprepared for this, again, me included. Next year, this event will be different. People know how tough it is and I think people will be better prepared, if only for reading the blogs and forums for this years event.

DaveMoss

Running out of food is inexcusable for a £61 to enter event. How hard would it be to have loads of boxes of cereal bars/ Jaffa cakes and the like on a sale ( give away) or return basis?

I didn't do the event, but am surprised by the number of comments suggesting the route was too hard, I thought sportive routes were meant to be a tough challenge. Even if it was wet and windy, is that not part of the challenge?
No one would enter a fell running race in a mountain area and expect it to be similar to a flat 10k would they?
If you thought this was hard, read the reports for the 3 peaks cyclo cross!!

cuttsmeister

Well this was my first ever Sportive, living a mile from the start i couldn't ignore it.I only started cycling a year ago. There were times i was in agony from cramp and did have to walk up some of the steeper sections of the latter climbs but i am delighted to discover i came in the top 400, 5 hrs 49mins. Obviously everyone else was finding it challenging too. Now i've had a few days to reflect, and the soreness in back,legs and ass has eased i am pleased it was so tough. I equate it to running a marathon, a sportive event should be tough but achievable, otherwise anyone could do it. Getting your medal at the end really means something on a ride like this one.

canyon boy

It wasn't the fact that it was too hard. Certain sportives should be hard, no argument there. I just feel that the organisers didn't give a true representation of the difficulty as there was far more climbing than stated.
Just imagine having to wait 3 hours for the broom wagon in driving wind, rain and freezing temperatures, with no shelter. There would have been hundreds of people in difficulty if the wind had been really strong. How would they have got them all back?.