Kaffenback, Uncle John cross type disc bike thing advice pls

galatzo

Morning all

I want a new cheap bike to use on some paths with the family, to nip to the shops (no racks needed though), winter road and maybe a bit of off-road riding.
This is not an area I have ever looked into before, it's just been all carbon bling till now !

PX Uncle John or Kaffenback or a n other ? The Kaff looks great but is really heavy but can take discs although I think the Uncle John can take discs now.

What brake type ? The discs look great and stopping is good but are they much more expensive and is wheel choice then limited to a specific type ?. I know nothing of cantilevers or v-brakes so advice needed.

What wheels ? Planet X seem to have good rep for their lower price model b, c and a57s or would a used Fulcrum 7, Khamsin or similar be suitable and is there a limit to tyre size on these wheels ?

Groupset I'm not that fussed about. I have Campag on my posh bike but a Sram or Shimano option would seem sensible here (cheaper and more variants). I have 34x50 and 12x25 on the road bike so I think 34x50/48 and 12x28ish for this build.

I also think brake levers on the bar tops would be useful but are these a bit uncool ? and would they add un-necessary cost and difficulty ?

Think I can work out bars, stem, seatpost, saddle etc !

Any advice or any reference sites appreciated.

Thanks

ugo.santalucia

If you want discs, you are pretty much limited to a set of 32 spokes wheels, made by a human or faux-human. They don't need to be bricks, a decent set down to 1700 grams is prefectly achievable. With this upgrade, any disc fitted cross bike performs and feels close to a road bike.
The ones I built for my Croix de Fer are a good example



I wouldn't worry too much about the weight of the frame/components... I would actually try and get a steel frme for durability, even if that results in one extra Kg over a lighter alloy setup
Look at the genesis range... and give a good thought to Shimano Alfine as well, perfect for what you have in mind

galatzo

Re the Alfine I was going for a normal rear mech option as I was planning on using second hand components were poss.
Wheels I was considering Planet X as they have a good rep and for similar money to used factory wheels.
Would these be ok with discs ?
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPP ... 7_wheelset
Or should I be thinking of cantis or Vs ?

ugo.santalucia

Galatzo wrote:

Re the Alfine I was going for a normal rear mech option as I was planning on using second hand components were poss.
Wheels I was considering Planet X as they have a good rep and for similar money to used factory wheels.
Would these be ok with discs ?
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPP ... 7_wheelset
Or should I be thinking of cantis or Vs ?

Of course not... you need MTB hubs on road rims... there is very little on the market, and that little is crap... what is your budget?

galatzo

As I said its all new to me !
It needs to be a cheap build so maybe Vs cantis on a cross would be better and cheaper.
Wheels I reckoned on £100 give or take £25, based on what Planet X charge really for wheels they include in their builds.

bails87

I've got a set of Superstar hubs built with DT rev spokes and Crest 29er rims on my CX. They weigh 1590g in total and I'm sure SS could build them (I bought the parts and built them myself).

As said above, you need disc compatible hubs. You could use road rims with a (redundant) braking surface, but something like a Mavic open pro actually weighs about 50g more per rim than an 'MTB tough' Stans Crest 29er.

29 inches = 700c by the way, so a 'racy' set of 29er XC wheels will be the best bet.

Edit: Just seen your budget, http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPSHLXMACH/ ... r_rims_32h or http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPOOXC/on_o ... r_wheelset would do. FYI "Centrelock" is Shimano's way of attaching rotors to hubs. It doesn't affect the brake itself, so you can use a shimano centrelock hub/rotor with any other brand of brake.

16mm

Kaffenbacks take disks or cantis. You can also swap the dropouts for track ends for a single speed, so this may be the cheapest option.

I've just built a kaffenback for commute/ trailer/ childseat / winter training. Definately heavy, but not an issue with the use I intend at all.
Really nice, but add the cost of road disks, and disk hubs on 700c and it adds up.

See

galatzo

Hmm so 29er wheels are what I need to run discs.
What can you get for upto £130 ? Anything ?
Just called PX and the Uncle John takes a disc rear but the front fork isn't compatable with discs.
So discs would mean Kaffenback unless there is another frame someone can recommend ?
Or do I go Uncle John and A57s or model Bs ?

16mm

Galatzo wrote:

Hmm so 29er wheels are what I need to run discs.
What can you get for upto £130 ? Anything ?
Just called PX and the Uncle John takes a disc rear but the front fork isn't compatable with discs.
So discs would mean Kaffenback unless there is another frame someone can recommend ?
Or do I go Uncle John and A57s or model Bs ?

My Kaffenback (pic linkedabove) has pompino disk forks. About 10mm shorter than the kaffenback forks.

galatzo

Bails
These seem within budget for the Kaff option with discs
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPSHLXMACH/ ... r_rims_32h
So its that build or Uncle John A57 and cantis at the moment
Any other frames to consider, new or used ?
Forme Hiver on Ebay looks quite nice.

Thanks for the patient replies - I'm starting to understand now.

16mm

Galatzo wrote:

Bails
These seem within budget for the Kaff option with discs
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPSHLXMACH/ ... r_rims_32h
So its that build or Uncle John A57 and cantis at the moment
Any other frames to consider, new or used ?
Forme Hiver on Ebay looks quite nice.

Thanks for the patient replies - I'm starting to understand now.

None in stock.
Re the disks, if you're using flat bars you can use any 2nd hand mtb disk levers and calipers.
If you're using drop bars you need road disk calipers, as road levers pull a different ammount of cable.
Road calipers will be about £100 a pair.....

Monty Dog

I'm a huge fan of this bike genre, having had a Kaffenback about 8 years ago - it made me realise that you don't need a heavy, cumbersome MTB to have fun offroad - mind you my latest ride is a singlespeed 29er. The Kaff rides surprisingly well on the road too. I would not recommend an Alfine hub as its a hefty weight on the back wheel which noticeably affects handling. Brake-wise if you can't stretch to discs, look at mini-vees not cantis as they are far easier to set up without problems with chatter and screeching. If you are really tight on your budget look at a singlespeed CX like an All City Natureboy - you'll be amazed at how much fun you can have with bombproof versatility.

ugo.santalucia

Galatzo wrote:

Bails
These seem within budget for the Kaff option with discs
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPSHLXMACH/ ... r_rims_32h
So its that build or Uncle John A57 and cantis at the moment
Any other frames to consider, new or used ?
Forme Hiver on Ebay looks quite nice.

Thanks for the patient replies - I'm starting to understand now.

I wouldn't buy them... just by looking at the wheel, I can tell you it's built the wrong way round for a disc wheel... in a wheel for disc the braking spokes are best fitted "heads in" unlike in a normal wheel.
The price is good, the rims are probably a bit heavy, but it's the lack of basic understanding on how these wheels should be built which is a bit worrying

16mm

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Galatzo wrote:

Bails
These seem within budget for the Kaff option with discs
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPSHLXMACH/ ... r_rims_32h
So its that build or Uncle John A57 and cantis at the moment
Any other frames to consider, new or used ?
Forme Hiver on Ebay looks quite nice.

Thanks for the patient replies - I'm starting to understand now.

I wouldn't buy them... just by looking at the wheel, I can tell you it's built the wrong way round for a disc wheel... in a wheel for disc the braking spokes are best fitted "heads in" unlike in a normal wheel.

Is this an actual issue, or just a theoretical one? I can't find much on google ATM.
What are the problems with using 'heads in'?

ugo.santalucia

16mm wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Galatzo wrote:

Bails
These seem within budget for the Kaff option with discs
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPSHLXMACH/ ... r_rims_32h
So its that build or Uncle John A57 and cantis at the moment
Any other frames to consider, new or used ?
Forme Hiver on Ebay looks quite nice.

Thanks for the patient replies - I'm starting to understand now.

I wouldn't buy them... just by looking at the wheel, I can tell you it's built the wrong way round for a disc wheel... in a wheel for disc the braking spokes are best fitted "heads in" unlike in a normal wheel.

Is this an actual issue, or just a theoretical one? I can't find much on google ATM.
What are the problems with using 'heads in'?

Whether it is a real problem is questionable... Certainly it shows lack of experience, as any decent MTb wheel is built that way... So whoever built them, was unaware of the issue