Did bike shop measure me correctly? (bianchi sempre)

dubcat

Hi, I am 5'10.5" with inside leg of 33". I went to my local bike shop to check out the Bianchi Sempre. I figured I would be size 55 or 57. They only had a 59 size bianchi built up and used that to try me out for size. The frame they tried was a c2c frame which is a little bit different from the sempre but apparently is close enough to test for sizing.

They spent a fair bit of time with me. In the end they recommended a 59 frame and said I may want to shorten the stem a little if I find it uncomfortable. This surprised me and I just want to check that they were thorough in the sizing.

Basically they had me stand over the frame and lift the bike up so the top bar was up against my groin. They said that the right size bike would leave the wheels an inch or two off the ground. In fact the wheels where a little over 2 inches off the ground.

They then had me sit on the bike and peddle backwards while they held it so I settled in to the seat. Then they said the join in the stem should line up with the front hub when I look down at it while holding the drop bars. The hub was a bit behind the spot I was told to look at which is why he said I might want to try a shorter stem at some point.

Anyway net effect was that a 59 frame was recommended. What do you guys think? This would be my first road bike and I want to make the order tomorrow. Hope someone can advise.
Dub

Mickyg88

Sounds a bit hit and miss, I'm approx 5'9.5" and fit a 54cm Scott fine, a 59cm seems a tad large for you, if I were you I would try another shop before coughing up the cas, do you not have a lbs which will do a free bike fit if you intend to purchase?

Wirral_paul

Dubcat wrote:

Basically they had me stand over the frame and lift the bike up so the top bar was up against my groin. They said that the right size bike would leave the wheels an inch or two off the ground. In fact the wheels where a little over 2 inches off the ground.

Any bike shop that does this deserves to close down. Please find another shop that knows even the most very basics about bike fit and ignores standover height as being totally irrelevant (which given sloping geometry it is).

Complete and utter incompetence shown by that shop to be honest.

PS i'm the same height as you and ride a 54cm Moda Stretto (and had it professionally fitted after a basic fit by the local bike shop). Even the basic fit took an hour and was after an initial trial on the 54cm and 56cm sizes

campbellrae1

The 59 size in Bianchi has a 57.5 cm top tube, at your height that is pretty long unless you have a very long torso/arms. I'm 6 foot 5 and need a 58cm top tube although I have long legs/short body.

If you can, put your measurements into the competitive cyclist fit calculator;
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CC ... ATOR_INTRO

It gives a good indication of the size needed. Pay most attention to the top tube length as it is the one you can adjust the least. You don't want the stem to need to be less than 90mm or more than 130mm as you can really affect the handling.

For what it's worth, I work in an LBS and have done a few different fitting courses and the method they used to fit you(straddling the top tube and lifting the bike) is fine for £200 BSO's but absolute bollocks for a decent bike...

Green Lantern

I was always told the same thing about lifting the bike and seeing how much of a gap there is between the frame and your groin as well. What is the correct process of determine your frame size. I am 6.1 and have a 58 cm frame. I am very comfortable on it. We did put a smaller stem so I did not have to reach over so much. Very happy and comfortable riding on this bike.

mamba80

Maybe you do need a 59cm frame but they are selling you what they have, NOT necessarily what you need! try another shop and brand and a 54/56 frame to compare frames and advice.

dubcat

They have all the sizes - and they would have to build whatever size I want to buy anyway. They were trying to be helpful. I'm just really unsure now about the sizing though. I wish other sempre owners would chip in.

Having said that Campbellrae1 seems to have direct bianchi knowledge. I am thinking of ordering the 57 which I can always reject if it does not feel right. Problem is that I only get one shot at this as I am doing a price match and that price match won't be available after the bike is made up as the people I want to match against will be out of stock by then. Grrr. To make it worse the 59 size bike would be available in a better group set.

Gut says order the 57.

Gizmodo

Green Lantern wrote:

I was always told the same thing about lifting the bike and seeing how much of a gap there is between the frame and your groin as well. What is the correct process of determine your frame size. I am 6.1 and have a 58 cm frame. I am very comfortable on it. We did put a smaller stem so I did not have to reach over so much. Very happy and comfortable riding on this bike.

Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAl_5e7bIHk

neeb

+1 to what others have said - sounds like the shop had no clue whatsoever about fitting and/or were just trying to get rid of stock in certain sizes... I would ignore their advice completely!

Looks like the Sempre sizes are a little smaller for the size numbers than with some other bikes, still, it's pretty unlikely you would need a 59 at your height. Don't be tempted to let things like availability / a better groupset influence your choice, the frame size is the most important thing and the one thing you can't change (unless you buy another frame and rebuild the bike yourself).

I would guess at your height that a 57 sempre would be the most likely to fit, but it's impossible to say as you can have two people of the same height with very different proportions. You do really need to get some proper advice or do some more research.

Most important things in frame sizing (more or less in order of priority) are:

1) The reach, i.e. the horizontal distance from a vertical line through the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. This is determined by the interaction of the effective top tube length with the seat tube angle. E.g. a bike with a 57cm effective top tube and 73 degree seat tube will have roughly the same reach as one with a 56cm effective top tube and 74 degree seat tube angle.

2) The head tube length. This will determine whether you can set the bars to the correct height without having a stack of spacers underneath the stem, or alternatively maybe not being able to get the bars low enough if the length is too long.

3) Seat tube angle - this determines how much saddle setback you will need to get your optimal saddle position in relation to the bottom bracket. If it's too slack you might need an "in-line" seatpost, if it's too steep you might need a post with a lot of setback.

There are other aspects of bike geometry that are less important for fit but very important to how the bike will ride and handle. The trail is determined by the head tube angle and fork offset/rake. Too much trail can make the bike sluggish in cornering, too little can make it twitchy. A lot of manufacturers save money by specifying the same fork (with same offset) for all frame sizes, and as smaller frames tend to have slacker headtube angles to avoid toe overlap they often end up having too much trail. Chainstay length will influence the responsiveness of the bike, with shorter stays tending to give more direct power transfer and a shorter wheelbase, which is good for responsiveness at the expense of stability and perhaps comfort.

Monty Dog

This quality of advise would be barely acceptable in Halfords - standover is pretty immaterial for bike fit and the fact that they advise a shorter stem should set alarm bells ringing. At least try a smaller frame, even a bike with similar geometry if not the Bianchi before you make your choice. A 59cm frame is typically more suited to someone 6ft and above.

BobScarle

I am 5' 11" and ride a 55cm Bianchi Infinito. I know it is different geometry to the Sempre but in my opinion the 59cm frame seems too big. I have no doubt you can ride it but you need more than that as a fitting session. If it were me, I would not order anything until I had tried other frame sizes and test ridden the bike first.

Superbalicious

I'm 5'11" and ride a 56cm Trek 1.9. For me it was between a56 and a 58, went for the 56 and the size is perfect for me.

My immediate thought is that they're just trying to sell you what they have in stock (and are probably struggling to shift)

giant_man

Wirral_Paul wrote:

Dubcat wrote:

Basically they had me stand over the frame and lift the bike up so the top bar was up against my groin. They said that the right size bike would leave the wheels an inch or two off the ground. In fact the wheels where a little over 2 inches off the ground.

Any bike shop that does this deserves to close down. Please find another shop that knows even the most very basics about bike fit and ignores standover height as being totally irrelevant (which given sloping geometry it is).

Complete and utter incompetence shown by that shop to be honest.

PS i'm the same height as you and ride a 54cm Moda Stretto (and had it professionally fitted after a basic fit by the local bike shop). Even the basic fit took an hour and was after an initial trial on the 54cm and 56cm sizes

+1 - totally agree, please name and shame OP!

mamba80

Dubcat wrote:

They have all the sizes - and they would have to build whatever size I want to buy anyway. They were trying to be helpful. I'm just really unsure now about the sizing though. I wish other sempre owners would chip in.
Gut says order the 57.

Well if thats what you think then get them to build up a 57 or whatever and compare both bikes - internet fits dont work your first post didnt say any of this.
Other Sempre owners opinions dont matter as they arnt built like you!

gezebo

Just out of interest, why have you chosen this particular bike as your first road bike? Like mtb bikes (which you have) the fit can be/is different for different makes and models.

To spend 2k(ish) on a bike that you are not sure of seems daft, personally I'd go and try a few other makes first before setting your mind on a particular model/size. Maybe you could borrow a mates bike and try that out?

Remember too, that the shop staff are not mind readers or have crystal balls. It's your money and you have to decide for yourself if it's right or not...

kevprimer

I'm 5.7 and normally fit a 52. 54 horizontal top tube. In my days of working in a bike shop I would of put u on a 54-57. I've always found fitting a slightly longer stem on a smaller frame to be better than a shorter one on a frame that is too big. another piece of advise I would give is never shop for a bike on a weekend. Weekend staff are quite often part time and don't always give the best advice as they just want to make a sale to get there bonus at the end of the month. I use to have this problem all the time with my saturday staff

Fursty Ferret

OP, if it's any consolation I'm 5'9" with a 33.5 inside leg and I ride a 58 Specialized with no problems whatsoever. BUT, take heed of what's been said and wait until you are absolutely sure that your new bike is the right size for you before buying it. Don't make the mistake of wanting it ASAP and therefore compromising on suitability.

giant_man

There's no point in posters putting up sizes and what fits them tbh. Everyone is built differently with varying arm/leg measurements, so comparisons are not much help imo. Especially when you consider that every frame has different geometries. The shop in question didn't know how to do a decent bike fitting, and there's no getting round that. You need people who know what they're doing, and this wasn't the case. Almost criminal imo ....

MattC59

Everyone fits a bike differently, but that sounds a little large to me.

I'm 6'2" and have a 33" or 34" inside leg (depends who measures me). My Trek is a 58cm and has a compact frame. My Enigma is a 61cm and has a classic frame. I believe, That the C2C geometry is similar to my Trek, which is why it seems too large to me. That said, don't ask is, does it fit you ? Do you feel comfortable on it ? That's what matters.
I'd suggest that their way of fitting a frame is a bit cr*p though. We have siilar inside legs, but I'm about 3.5" taller than you, yet you have been recommended a larger frame size (compared to my Trek with a similar compact frame). Frame size isn't just about your inside leg, it's about the reach to the bars.

racingcondor

OP - I'm 1/2 inch taller than you and have similarly long legs. I ride a 55cm frame currently and had a 58 before (short 80mm stem). I moved down a size as I got fitter as the smaller frame made the reach correct for me and I had become fit and flexible enough to manage the rather large drop from saddle to bars. The 58 frame worked for me when I first got a road bike because my flexibility was very poor.

The problem with your shop claiming stand over height is relevant is that some frames have sloping top tubes, some have traditional flat top tubes and some have curved top tubes. As you can imagine this will change the stand over height while making no difference to the length.

Depending on how comfortable you are with a long bike (you may have long arms or be more comfortable with long reach than me) the 59 might fit. I think a 57 is much more likely and certainly wouldn't be buying without trying both, it seems very likely that your shop is just trying to shift ageing stock.

thefd

Dubcat wrote:

Problem is that I only get one shot at this as I am doing a price match and that price match won't be available after the bike is made up as the people I want to match against will be out of stock by then. Grrr. To make it worse the 59 size bike would be available in a better group set.

Gut says order the 57.

Like you said - you have one chance to get this right - but seems to me you are rushing to get the 'deal'. I would leave it till you are totally sure. There will always be other deals. Why rush and get it wrong?

dubcat

Everyone who posted on this thread - thanks VERY much. Your posts were extremely informative for a newbie like me. I took heed and did not make the impulse purchase. I found a shop with the 57 size sempre in stock. They sat me on the bike on a turbo trainer and had me peddle. They advised me to buy a 57 size frame. My knees were close to my elbows but they told me that my seat needed to be raised anyway. I felt less stretched out on the bike. Really hard to describe but it felt just right. In fact when the guy went off to check something out for me I just found myself peddling and peddling.. couldn't stop

Thanks so much again for helping me out guys. Much appreciated.

I went for this bike for a combination of reasons. Initially it was the chance to buy a bike far higher in value than what I could afford. However, I realise now this is a bad reason. Sorry. Won't do it again Another crap reason for choosing the bike was the name. I just felt it was cool to have a Bianchi... another very bad reason I know. However, after sitting on the bike I feel with luck I have ended up focussing on a bike that I am going to want to go out on as often as I can. I'm in love with the thing. It's not a logical scientific purchase I admit. It's an emotional one. Yes it's probably my mid life crisis in full effect.

Ordered the bike now - really hope i did not make a mistake. Very excited to get out there and pedalling! Next step is to buy some pedals and clothes - but that is for another thread

drlodge

Dubcat wrote:

Hi, I am 5'10.5" with inside leg of 33". I went to my local bike shop to check out the Bianchi Sempre. I figured I would be size 55 or 57. Dub

The 57 you ordered probably isn't too far off.

My opinion is that the effctive top tube length is the most important. I'm 5' 8.5" and my new bike as an eTT of 54.5cm with a 12cm stem. You're 2" taller than me, and since I have longer legs proportionally, your torso & arm length will be longer than mine. The 57cm frame has an eTT length of 56cm so I reckon is about right for you.

Geometry is here http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CC ... AND.ID=540

Bozman

It makes me laugh when I read a post about frame size because it varies so much from individual to individual, if someone hasn't got a clue about sizing because they're new to road bikes i'd get independently measured.
Someone at 5'10(my height) has a 57cm TT and i had a 53cm TT, a 55cm TT felt too big for me.

Wirral_paul

Bozman wrote:

It makes me laugh when you read a post about frame size because it varies so much from individual to individual, if some hasn't got a clue because they're new to road bikes i'd get independently measured.

Absolutely get measured - just not by some pratt in a bike shop who thinks that standover height is the way to do it!!

dubcat

This is going to sound stupid - and it is stupid - but when i am test riding the bike how do i know it is the right size for me? I want to be able to carry out my own tests and not rely on the place I am buying from. Can anyone point me to a guide?

drlodge

Take some measurements from your existing bike (which you will have adjusted to get your "perfect" fit), then you can make sure the new bike is adjusted to the same measurements e.g. saddle height above pedal at bottom of stroke, distance of front of saddle behind BB, distance between saddle and flats of the bars, drop of the bars from the saddle.

Of course having a different saddle will mean you wont get the exact same measurement but it'll be near enough.

My crucial measurement is distance of the bars from the saddle, which is dependent on effective top tube length and stem length. The saddle is easier to adjust up/down/fore/aft but the top tube is fixed and stem has only a limited adjustability e.g. 10,11 or 12 cm.

Remember there are only 3 contact points on your bike - bum, hands, feet.

Gizmodo

Dubcat wrote:

This is going to sound stupid - and it is stupid - but when i am test riding the bike how do i know it is the right size for me? I want to be able to carry out my own tests and not rely on the place I am buying from. Can anyone point me to a guide?

1. Work out what it is you want from your cycling. If you want to race then you will want a more aero-dynamic (aggressive) position on the bike, but if you want to enjoy cycling at a steady pace and be comfortable for hours then you will want to be sat up more to be more comfortable.

2. Now knowing what is important for you, test ride the bike in those conditions (yes that could mean taking it for several hours) and if you are comfortable and happy that that bike meets your goals, then you have the right size.

At the end of the day, as you've already pointed out, buying a bike is as much an emotional purchase as a scientific one. If you feel comfortable on the bike, if it meets your needs and you are happy with your purchase - those are the most important things.

neeb

drlodge wrote:

My opinion is that the effctive top tube length is the most important.

drlodge wrote:

distance of the bars from the saddle, which is dependent on effective top tube length and stem length

Sorry to be a bore about this, but do remember that seat tube angle also effectively changes the reach. If the seat tube angle is steeper and you set the saddle to the same position in relation to the BB, the same effective top tube length will equate to a longer reach. It's not insignificant, as a bike with a 74.5 degree seat tube angle will have around 1.5cm extra reach for the same effective top tube length as one with a 73 degree seat tube angle. That could mean the difference between fitting a 100mm stem or a 120mm one.

This isn't much use if you are starting out and don't know your ideal setup yet, but it's crucial if you are comparing frames and/or trying to find a new frame to duplicate your position on your old bike.

dubcat

This is my first road bike so I don't really have much to compare it to. I will ride it for more than just their car park and see how it feels. I know my mtb is all wrong as I am forced to put too much weight on my arms and wrists so I will look out for this at least.

drlodge

neeb wrote:

drlodge wrote:

My opinion is that the effctive top tube length is the most important.

drlodge wrote:

distance of the bars from the saddle, which is dependent on effective top tube length and stem length

Sorry to be a bore about this, but do remember that seat tube angle also effectively changes the reach. If the seat tube angle is steeper and you set the saddle to the same position in relation to the BB, the same effective top tube length will equate to a longer reach. It's not insignificant, as a bike with a 74.5 degree seat tube angle will have around 1.5cm extra reach for the same effective top tube length as one with a 73 degree seat tube angle. That could mean the difference between fitting a 100mm stem or a 120mm one.

This isn't much use if you are starting out and don't know your ideal setup yet, but it's crucial if you are comparing frames and/or trying to find a new frame to duplicate your position on your old bike.

That's factually correct, but if you follow my advice you won't have to worry about seat tube angles - the frame angles, top tube length and stem length are all taken into account by the saddle - bar measurement. You only have to worry about such angles if you start looking for frames with a particularly top tube length. Now once you find a bike that gives you the right reach, you can find out the eTT and stem length and frame angles and compare other frames to see how that match up - bearing in mind the above advice that eTT/stem length needs to change as seat tube angle changes.

I think the best test is to (a) see if the position "feels" right when riding and (b) take a photo side on to see how you look - what your body angles are and whether that "looks" right. If it looks and feels right, it will be about right.