Carbon or Not to Carbon Wheels.

derekking

Hi All,

I'm seriously debating my first wheel upgrade ever. Currently I have a Focus Cayo that came with Mavic Aksium wheels.

Everything I read tells me if i'm upgrading anything then wheels are the way to go - Is this correct please ?

OK - So once i've made that decision I then get lost in the technical detail, and end up loosing myself and asking whether it's worth it at all.

If anyone can help with straightening me out on a few points I would really appreciate it.

Firstly I use the bike for 60-70 mile sportives & Sprint Triathlons and summer training, so on that basis i've decided clinchers are the way I would like to go;

I *think* i'm narrowed down to;
Fulcrum 3's
Campag Zonda (Believe these 2 wheels are same hubs,rims,spokes - just different configs)
Planet-X Carbon Clinchers (52mm) Aero. (little more than budget)

My questions are:

1) Will my £400 budget get me a real "recognisable" difference to the bike?
2) Aero or Non Aero (i'm thinking no more than the 52mm Planet-X) so i can still get up hills and not suffer too much In a cross wind ? but what difference would I see with the other 2 contenders ?
3) Pros and Cons of Carbon and Non-Carbon. Planet-X come with Alloy rims so i get decent breaking.
3) Does the weight make a real difference? My Mavic are about 1800-1900g I think but the Carbon Planet-X are 1800g, so would I see any benefit ? If not what's the point ? (The Zondas are 1550g)

4) Should I just suck it up - be a man, pick something that looks good and not worry a bit about all the above ??

Wow - I'm just going round in circles and getting no where. Any help from people with the knowledge I dont have is more than welcomed!

Thanks
Derek.

mamba80

Confused.com..... 2 of those wheels are not Carbon clinchers or carbon anything.
As too whether you want Carbon clinchers for general riding/training around...no i dont think so.

The Fulcrum 3s are great wheels, however, whether you ll actually notice any difference going with these or any other £400 wheel is another matter? i doubt it, the Aksiums are good wheels.

Perhaps consult a wheel builder and get something unique and repairable for that sort of money? wheelsmith.co.uk or ugo who posts on here?

derekking

Thanks for the advice.

Thats my point, i dont know whether carbon is the way to go or not. All those wheels are in my budget, but i've no clue as to the difference (without just blindly buying something).

pilot_pete

Full carbon wheels for everyday use are not robust. The brake tracks (in my experience) wear excessively. I don't mean wear out, I mean get damaged with the heat of hard braking if you ride hills a lot. I couldn't believe this, but I have now had both front and rear rims changed on my 50mm carbon clinchers. The front started to get deposits of brake pad material sticking to it in various areas around the track. It appears to be due to the resin overheating and then hardening in these areas, which then starts to rip the pad material apart. The rear started to delaminate around the brake track after some fast descending. All in I have been very dissatisfied with their lack of durability. These were handbuilt using Gigantex rims.

I fitted Swiss Stop yellow carbon specific brake pads, but the braking was still not very good compared to alloy rims. If I were to buy again, I would go for a carbon aero rim with alloy bonded brake track. But these still wouldn't be for everyday use, I would keep them for good days and probably not for hilly rides.

Hope this helps in some way.

PP

sungod

mavic list aksiums as 1735g

to notice an acceleration difference you'd need to drop a fair bit of weight

to notice an aero difference you need to spend a lot of time going fast

unless you're racing/doing timed events, there's not much point in aero wheels, and then you need to be going fast/long enough to get a useful power/time saving

side wind effect on deep sections depends on the design, the older v-profile ones are generally more susceptible, with the modern fatter with rounded-end types less so, but i've got some old-style ones, you get used to it, and sudden strong gusts from the 'wrong' angle will give any deep wheel a shove

personally i'm not keen on carbon clinchers

how about some handbuilts, wheelsmiths list...

IRD Aero / Novatec Superlight Shimano / Sapim CX-Ray / Alloy nips: 1455g for 427 quid

...not sure what spoke count that weight is for, maybe 20/24, but you'd need to ask, that'd give you a wheelset with a bit of depth, good aero spokes, and much less weight than the factory ones you mention

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/road-wheels-prices

amaferanga

Pilot Pete wrote:

Full carbon wheels for everyday use are not robust. The brake tracks (in my experience) wear excessively. I don't mean wear out, I mean get damaged with the heat of hard braking if you ride hills a lot. I couldn't believe this, but I have now had both front and rear rims changed on my 50mm carbon clinchers. The front started to get deposits of brake pad material sticking to it in various areas around the track. It appears to be due to the resin overheating and then hardening in these areas, which then starts to rip the pad material apart. The rear started to delaminate around the brake track after some fast descending. All in I have been very dissatisfied with their lack of durability. These were handbuilt using Gigantex rims.

I fitted Swiss Stop yellow carbon specific brake pads, but the braking was still not very good compared to alloy rims. If I were to buy again, I would go for a carbon aero rim with alloy bonded brake track. But these still wouldn't be for everyday use, I would keep them for good days and probably not for hilly rides.

Hope this helps in some way.

PP

That's interesting. I've been riding carbon clinchers for the best part of two summers now - racing and most of my training rides (since I have PowerTap hub built with a carbon clincher rim). Rims are fine and I've not had the issues you talk about. I've been using Pro-Lite carbon-specific pads and I'm still on the original set. When you say hills do you mean Alpine ascents/descents or regular British hillocks?

Anyway, the Planet X carbon clinchers have an alloy brake track anyway.

derekking

Thanks all

Ive had a very interesting chat with Derek at wheel smith this afternoon and he has really helped to clear things up for me.

I think I wanted aero because they look cool but the reality is I probably wouldnt get the best.

Derek is recommending velocity A23 rims or the IRD AERO to suit me.

Anyone any experience with either of these ?

Thanks for all the input.

yaya

The ~200g weight difference between the Aksiums and the Fulcrum 3s is mostly in the rim which will improve the wheel's ability to spin-up quickly, or in other word your ability to accelerate quickly. Lighter rims also reduce the gyroscopic effect so will change direction a bit quicker (that's the front one obviously).

The question is how much of it you will actually notice...hard to say as it also depends on your weight, power and riding style...

I've had my 3's for almost 2.5 years now, ride them all year round inc. in the rain and they've been very good. The only issue I've had was with a nipple on the rear that got loose and disappeared into the rim. My LBS was able to fix it (twice) but you need special tools for it since the rim has only got 1 hole in it...

The front never needed any adjustment, never!

The hubs are amazingly reliable, after about 10,000k I opened them up and they still had grease in them and the bearings look like new and roll smoothly.

I think the braking surface has got another winter in it, maybe...then I will probably be looking at a new set of 3s...

Hope this helps?

Monty Dog

Carbon clinchers can add a big chunk of weight so negate part of the reason for using aero wheels - if you want to get the full benefit of carbon wheels run tubulars.
If you want something a bit more aero and lighter than Aksium, try something like an American Classic AC420s - rims are deep enough to notice the aero effect over shallow rims and are reasonably light.

ugo.santalucia

derekking wrote:

Thanks all

Ive had a very interesting chat with Derek at wheel smith this afternoon and he has really helped to clear things up for me.

I think I wanted aero because they look cool but the reality is I probably wouldnt get the best.

Derek is recommending velocity A23 rims or the IRD AERO to suit me.

Anyone any experience with either of these ?

Thanks for all the input.

The a 23 are very good. Also velocity aero head... Ven lighter... I have a few of both to build...