can of worms question.....

ianbar

so which manufacturer tends to make the best frames?

BruceG

Easy, the manufacturer that makes the one that suits all of your needs at the time of purchase!

smidsy

What material? What type of bike? What is your definition of best?

ianbar

I'm open to answers on all, but carbon and ti mainly

rolf_f

ianbar wrote:

so which manufacturer tends to make the best frames?

Exactly what are you hoping to get from this thread?

a) a raging argument between brand fans
b) serious advice for a frame purchase given an incredibly flexible budget
c) a unique forum concensus that such and such a manufacturer is indeed the best
d) yet another argument about fake Pinarellos made of newspaper
e) many other equally grim outcomes.....

ianbar

a am happy with a nice mix of all the above lol ok more seriously i will set some criteria...

carbon and titanium frames
based on bikes up to £2000 max

estampida

so what you need to hear is that:

Most manufactures bikes, made of carbon or ti at the stated price range

have very little difference between them

some are styling some are structural quirks,

but some manufacturers make more than just their own bikes, so although a bike may be perceived as better, that perception is based on your own perspective on what is a good bike, putting value to such things as brand, country of origin and so forth........

no can of worms just a thread that did not ask a question................

so there is no real answer

TommyEss

So jumping in with both feet - for bikes around £2000, you won't go far wrong with a Giant.

Discuss...

Redhog14

TommyEss wrote:

So jumping in with both feet - for bikes around £2000, you won't go far wrong with a Giant.

Discuss...

Or Specialized, Trek, Focus, Van Nicholas, Pinarello, Colnago, Ribble, Boardman, Look, Orbea, BMC... etc etc etc £2000 buys you quite a serious amount of bike, the real difference these days is not so much the frame (esp at that price) but the components hung on it...IMO

smidsy

Lightest carbon frame for £2k Cannondale SuperSix Evo. Does that make it best? Some will say yes, others will say no.

All I do know is I want one.

Paul E

One that fits you and you can afford is the best

TommyEss

I think he wants the best frame on a complete bike costing £2k - if we go all the way up to £2k frames, then, well that's a truly delicious can of worms to open!

navrig

So is that a £1800 frame and £200 of crap components or a £500 frame and some decent kit?

I'll go and measure some string until popcorn is ready.

southdownswolf

If it were me spending £2000, I'd buy this http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165710 and add some Zipp 808 Wheels :twisted:

blackpoolkev

I bought one of these and I think it's great.That's only my opinion, maybe it will suit your needs too.
http://www.bike-treks.co.uk/413420/products/scott_cr1_sl_road_frame_set_hmx_carbon_.aspx

ianbar

i like the look of the cr1 its a good looking bike, even though not usually a big fan of scott

ianbar

i will ask the question a little differently, if i was to spend near £2000 or any amount really but all the bikes i had on a shortlist were basically same value, am i to assume the frame quality will be tiny if any at all?

navrig

ianbar wrote:

i will ask the question a little differently, if i was to spend near £2000 or any amount really but all the bikes i had on a shortlist were basically same value, am i to assume the frame quality will be tiny if any at all?

That is such a poorly phrased question. It actually doesn't make sense.

jim453

ianbar wrote:

i will ask the question a little differently, if i was to spend near £2000 or any amount really but all the bikes i had on a shortlist were basically same value, am i to assume the frame quality will be tiny if any at all?

OP, read this back to yourself. It doesn't actually make sense. The monkey is absolutely right.

Even on a beginners forum, these are ridiculous questions.

jim453

jim453 wrote:

ianbar wrote:

i will ask the question a little differently, if i was to spend near £2000 or any amount really but all the bikes i had on a shortlist were basically same value, am i to assume the frame quality will be tiny if any at all?

OP, read this back to yourself. It doesn't actually make sense. The monkey is absolutely right.

Even on a beginners forum, these are ridiculous questions.

But, to answer what I assume you are asking. For any given price, not withstanding some kind of one off internet promotion or something. All bikes are exactly the same. All this garbage about stiffness etc is exactly that, garbage.

Free market economics, availability and choice take care of the fact that the bikes are pretty much identical at a given price. Buy one you like the colour of and then never give it a seconds more thought.

CiB

I gave up answering the 'what's the best bike?' threads a long while ago, but my usual answer was to buy the one that makes you grin in the shop. You should like owning your bike.

thefd

CiB wrote:

I gave up answering the 'what's the best bike?' threads a long while ago, but my usual answer was to buy the one that makes you grin in the shop. You should like owning your bike.

Oh...that's easy then - he should get a Specialized Tarmac!! It makes me grin <--- See

TheEnglishman

Actually kind of an interesting question if what I believe is the case is actually true in that nearly all mass produced frames are made in Taiwan, almost certainly by a few third party manufacturers who make the frames to the bike companies specifications.

Does anyone know who these companies are? I don't believe Specialized/Trek/Boardman/Giant etc etc have their own manufacturing divisions, so does anyone have any info on these Taiwanese companies? Is one firm becoming dominant (assuming there's more than one firm?) or is there a steel firm, an ali firm and a carbon firm? Etc etc etc...

TommyEss

TheEnglishman wrote:

Actually kind of an interesting question if what I believe is the case is actually true in that nearly all mass produced frames are made in Taiwan, almost certainly by a few third party manufacturers who make the frames to the bike companies specifications.

Does anyone know who these companies are? I don't believe Specialized/Trek/Boardman/Giant etc etc have their own manufacturing divisions, so does anyone have any info on these Taiwanese companies? Is one firm becoming dominant (assuming there's more than one firm?) or is there a steel firm, an ali firm and a carbon firm? Etc etc etc...

Giant are one of the biggest frame manufacturers on the planet. There's also Merida I think, and probably one or two more of the big players.

migrantwing

TheEnglishman wrote:

Actually kind of an interesting question if what I believe is the case is actually true in that nearly all mass produced frames are made in Taiwan, almost certainly by a few third party manufacturers who make the frames to the bike companies specifications.

Does anyone know who these companies are? I don't believe Specialized/Trek/Boardman/Giant etc etc have their own manufacturing divisions, so does anyone have any info on these Taiwanese companies? Is one firm becoming dominant (assuming there's more than one firm?) or is there a steel firm, an ali firm and a carbon firm? Etc etc etc...

Good questions, Englishman.

Pross

ianbar wrote:

i like the look of the cr1 its a good looking bike, even though not usually a big fan of scott

That's what I opted for as I liked the frame more than others in the price range (not saying it is the best but it was the one I liked most).

Shame you weren't asking about aluminium as you would probably have got a consensus on Canondale.

ianbar

i have a caad8 now lol and i do think it seems a good frame for my limited knowledge! i like the giant tcr composite 1 seems a good package and the super six 105 and a mistral for the ti option(like enigma but don't think budget would stretch)

simon_masterson

As has already been said, the answer is simple: There is no 'best'.

Even once you've narrowed down to the type of bike that you're after (material, intended usage, etc), individual differences in geometry will make some frames more suitable for you than others.

And this is assuming that you're not on a made-to-measure frame, since many here seem to be riding on carbon fibre bikes, and a custom carbon fibre bike is somewhat of a premium product... (!)

At the furthest extreme it becomes irrelevant, at least so far as I'm concerned. Professional riders are forever switching teams. I can't imagine that Trek or Shimano (etc etc etc) will refuse to accomodate their requirements. If Wiggo needs a certain spec, I daresay Pinarello will make sure he has it.

But components are important as well. When you consider that a basic set of aero wheels might cost you £1000, a decent groupset will cost you more, and a carbon frame will cost anywhere from a few hundred to well in excess of the aforementioned put together, it puts things into perspective, at least to a degree.

The premium in cycling tends to be on lightness. As much as it's easy for the cynic to assume that manufacturers are just out for easy money from people that will pay huge sums to shave off a few grams, nevertheless I don't see why you would pay the extra money for a lighter frame if you aren't going to allocate your component budget accordingly. Equally, why go for a Dura Ace groupset (let alone anything more expensive) if your frame is a cheaper one?

The quandary is an awkward one: Potentially you can save money on components if you buy a mass-produced bike, but you might also end up with a set of mediocre everything. True enough, you might end up paying a couple of hundred less than you would if you were to assemble the bike yourself, but if you're going to spend the money you might as well make it go as far as possible, or otherwise spend your money according to your priorities not the manufacturer's.

I don't really know what makes one carbon or alloy frame 'better' than another purely in terms of the material from which they are made, but I do know that they aren't exactly bikes to grow old with. So for me personally, I'd be disinclined to spend a great deal on a low-end carbon or alloy bike, and once the price goes beyond £1000 we're approaching the territory of what I really want: a top-end steel bike made to measure. And high-end steel racing frames can compete very favourably with carbon fibre and alloy anyway.

ianbar

the titanium option has come to me because someone i know has 2 ti bikes and swears by them.pretty much bomb proof where as he had the thought carbon almost lost its strength over time, though at my ability i might never really notice that.

my current group set is a tiagra, and would want a upgrade to that to match the frame at least 105 but ideally ultegra unless i jump to campag or sram.if i bought a ti bike i would possibly not buy wheels and use my askiums for not to save a bit of cash till i could afford an upgrade there.

navrig

ianbar wrote:

.....he had the thought carbon almost lost its strength over time, .......

Rather than describe that as utter tosh, I would suggest that this highly unlikely. How would it lose strength and how on earth would he feel a loss of strength? Did the frame start to bend and wobble as he was riding it?

I can just imagine Lewis Hamilton refusing to get into his latest F1 car because he felt it was weaker than last week!!! :roll: :roll: :roll: