carbon-gimmick?
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To settle this argument. The session 9.9 is the best bike you can buy at the minute. And it's carbon.0
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compositepro wrote:Google "carbon forging"
which answers the doubters of carbons impact reistance
I can't see anything relating to impact resistance?0 -
Giraffoto wrote:cooldad wrote:The first carbon frames were just tubes with metal bits holding them all together.
Ahhhh yes, nostalgia - remember the Peugeot "fibre de carbone" with cast aluminium lugs and the tubes glued in? Even the best of them still had bits of glue still visible on the tube/lug. Mind you, their aluminium frames were similar in the late 80s. Back in them days a carbon or aluminium frame was just a lugged steel frame design with glue instead of brazing.
A bit like the cars now, except it's plastic not carbon.Planet X Kaffenback 2
Giant Trance X2
Genesis High Latitude 2x10
Planet X n2a
Genesis Core 200 -
Nope, it can be strong in as many directions as you've designed it to be.Thewaylander wrote:The only thing i ahve with carbon is that depending on the weave it can be very strong but usualy in one direction.0 -
YeehaaMcgee wrote:
Nope, it can be strong in as many directions as you've designed it to be.Thewaylander wrote:The only thing i ahve with carbon is that depending on the weave it can be very strong but usualy in one direction.
Gotta go with Yeehaa with this.
In a way, Waylander is right, but also it's also so very misrepresentative of how CF materials and products are desgined and made. Anything made using solely UD material, with the fibers aligned in a common direction throughout the product is asking for trouble, but you'd be a chump to design something like that. Mix the orientations up (0, 90, 45 and a couple of 67.5s for good measure) and the material becomes nearly isotropic - it performs equally well in most loaded directions.
The only thing where carbon-epoxy is weak is in impact capability. Epoxy is not particularly tough, which explains why Dreamliner wing leading-edges are made using an Epoxy-Nylon system (its about 4x tougher under impact).
We've all seen the vid os folk braying s**t out of CF frames with mallets and the like - that's with a brittle material.How would I write my own epitaph? With a crayon - I'm not allowed anything I can sharpen to a sustainable point.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are worth exactly what you paid for them.0 -
Fair emough, but as you say impact weak, I have seen a number of frames with splinters from rock impacts its the only thing that puts me off as every where I ride is hugely rocky (and mostly cost lol).
But as I said also they put alot of guards and plastic on downtubes to protect with this so, It's probably rocking now.0 -
Thewaylander wrote:Fair emough, but as you say impact weak, I have seen a number of frames with splinters from rock impacts its the only thing that puts me off as every where I ride is hugely rocky (and mostly cost lol).
But as I said also they put alot of guards and plastic on downtubes to protect with this so, It's probably rocking now.
Oh, definately.
Let's keep the perspective of the kind of impact energies we're talking about, too - birds strikes at 500mph, ballistic spalling from ordnance impact, that kind of thing. Stone strike from a rock at 30mph? Not so much. Chances are, what would damage a CF frame would total an ali frame too (what with their horrifically thin wall sections and very finite fatigue lives).
For the kind of riding I do, I'd love a carbon full-susser. I'd trust it; much as I trust the carbon fork on my crosser, or a carbon seat in the race car, or the wing on the aircraft I flew in.
25 years ago, ali MTBs had a fairly poor reputation for sudden failure, frankly ghastly ride quality and high price. Then everything went ali as the tech improved. Things are starting to pick up for composites now, and in 25 years time, maybe we'll all be saying 'a metal mountain bike, how quaint!'
How would I write my own epitaph? With a crayon - I'm not allowed anything I can sharpen to a sustainable point.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are worth exactly what you paid for them.0 -
Clank wrote:Thewaylander wrote:Fair emough, but as you say impact weak, I have seen a number of frames with splinters from rock impacts its the only thing that puts me off as every where I ride is hugely rocky (and mostly cost lol).
But as I said also they put alot of guards and plastic on downtubes to protect with this so, It's probably rocking now.
Oh, definitely.
Let's keep the perspective of the kind of impact energies we're talking about, too - birds strikes at 500mph, ballistic spalling from ordnance impact, that kind of thing. Stone strike from a rock at 30mph? Not so much. Chances are, what would damage a CF frame would total an ali frame too (what with their horrifically thin wall sections and very finite fatigue lives).
For the kind of riding I do, I'd love a carbon full-susser. I'd trust it; much as I trust the carbon fork on my crosser, or a carbon seat in the race car, or the wing on the aircraft I flew in.
25 years ago, ali MTBs had a fairly poor reputation for sudden failure, frankly ghastly ride quality and high price. Then everything went ali as the tech improved. Things are starting to pick up for composites now, and in 25 years time, maybe we'll all be saying 'a metal mountain bike, how quaint!'
I agree, technology is moving on
Just saying what i've seen, as a historical basis. Give it time and we will have cheap well made carbon, currently i dont think cheap carbon bikes are that good, but more expensive ones are.0 -
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Thewaylander wrote:currently i dont think cheap carbon bikes are that good, but more expensive ones are.
What carbon bikes, cheap and expensive, have you had?0 -
And how are we defining that too?
I've had a £200 carbon frame, and a couple of £3000 ones, plus plenty in the middle! I don't think there's a direct correlation between quality and price.0 -
bails87 wrote:
One for DH, XC, Slopestyle, CycloX and Road? What you going to use for big mountain freeride? Or aggressive enduro? Better get a couple more0 -
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take a look at a carbon 456, and search for issues with them. Then google Lapierre DH carbon issues and see what comes back. Cost seems to have very little to do with it. On the whole, yes, more expensive generally means better, but there are exceptions as there are with everything. From experience, I've had some decent sized rocks strike the downtube of my HD, it only has a thin layer of helitape on the there to protect it, and it looks brand new. Any rock that strikes a quality carbon frame hard enough to splinter it is going to write off an alu frame and put a good old dent in it, rendering it useless anyway.0
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Yep, I've had big sounding rocks smack off the downtube of my 456C, makes a heck of a thump but it hasn't even scratched it. Unlike when I accidentally put the wheel on top of the bike in the car, with the cassette on the downtube. Made a right mess of the lacquer :roll:0
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lawman wrote:take a look at a carbon 456, and search for issues with them. Then google Lapierre DH carbon issues and see what comes back. Cost seems to have very little to do with it. On the whole, yes, more expensive generally means better, but there are exceptions as there are with everything. From experience, I've had some decent sized rocks strike the downtube of my HD, it only has a thin layer of helitape on the there to protect it, and it looks brand new. Any rock that strikes a quality carbon frame hard enough to splinter it is going to write off an alu frame and put a good old dent in it, rendering it useless anyway.
just do this with any manufacturer and funnily enough you'll find people who've had problems.
I've not had it for long, but my C456 has had some hard times, got a good scuff/ding on one of my cranks, but nothing on the frame so far.
As has been already said, I think anything to give troubles to a frame would do it no matter the material - manufacturing defects aside but thats a different story.
Be interesting to see what numbers of 456 issues there have been, seeing as apparently the first batch was 3000 frames. Obviously don't know how many of those have sold, but i'd imagine a lot.0 -
alot is to do with defects during the manufacturing process, but look at the issues commencal, lapierre and evil have had with alu frames. Issues crop up, thats a given, whether its you or someone else, but imo, carbon is the better material. Will be interesting to see how my c456 compares to the maxlight, although its a crying shame on one dont do an alu 456, that would be a helluva test with all the options covered!0
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But then it would conform to the norm (alloy being the norm). Needs to be either steel if you have a beard or carbon if you have an ipad? (i've not got an ipad btw ) 0
