Cheating in our sport?

CommyAdam

Firstly, please correct me if this topic has been over analysed before, or if it is in the wrong section...

I was wondering, partially in light of the controversy in the Tour de France over the weekend, whether or not has anyone has come across (alleged or...) actual cheating taking place of a similar ilk in mountain biking?

I tend to ride for fun and so don't have much personal experience of competitions but following UCI DH and 4X for past ten years or so...i cant think of any instances of sabotage or cheating taking place.

I can only draw from this that our road riding sisters on two wheels are a more malicious breed altogether?

cooldad

I have my suspicions that an MTBer once smoked something dicey.

nicklouse

There is cheating and there is doing things that are not approved of and would have got you banned from events.

Then there are the mutters who get caught transporting stuff.

And then what about JMCs ashes?

YeehaaMcgee

I don't follow XC racing, and I don't follow road cycling (at all).
However, I am not aware of any doping in XC racing, but I am aware of endless scandals in road cycling.
Personally, I find that quite telling, that I know of more suspected drug use in a sport I have no interest in whatsoever, than I do about a sport that I have a passing interest in.

I've never heard of a doping issue in DH/4X/

StefanP

There isnt as much money in professional mountain biking as there is in Road cycling

YeehaaMcgee

StefanP wrote:

There isnt as much money in professional mountain biking as there is in Road cycling

Or as many illicit drug users, it seems.

CommyAdam

ive read in a few road cycling biographies/accounts of mechanics sleeping with team bikes next to their bed for fear of sabotage... i assume that level of suspicion doesn't pervade the top levels of mountain biking? Though i don't know many top race mechs....

supersonic

I don't know of any activities in MTBing. Road racing is an absolute joke.

YeehaaMcgee

supersonic wrote:

I don't know of any activities in MTBing.

Lazy feckers

paul.skibum

Rob Warner & his co host were talking about it during the MSA xc coverage - the co host (a big name xc rider but I cant recall who) said he didnt know of anyone in xc who doped or thought it a problem and Warner said aside from a bit of weed he didn't think it happened in DH.

I reckon pain killers would be the worst in DH - Gee must have been doped tot he eye balls in MSA to ride in the finals after his practice crash.

I think it is a shame the way things went in road cycling, the TDF to me is an ultimate test of rider skills, stamina and team/individual skill but it has had the shine taken off it by the number of dopers in past years. I am following the current tour still and the idea of riding 200k per day in 4 and a half hours for 3 weeks doped or not sounds like a hell of a challenge.

bluechair84

The only thing I know of even vaguely relatable would be the skin suits used in DH. It seemed to give riders a real advantage and lots of riders ended up using them... then... everyone stopped using them. I can't remember if they stopped using them on account of a gentleman's agreement that either they would all be on a level playing field and looking like nobs, or on a level playing field liking like normal riders; or if they were banned. I'm sure someone will add to this pathetically sketchy account...

styxd

I think they ended up looking like nobs due to the fact they dont wear them. They arent normal riders, they are professionals (or at least some are lucky enoguh to be)

They should use things like skin suits if it gives them a performance advantage.

I think they were worried it might damage the "image" of the sport.

Downhill mountain biking doesnt really have its own image to damage though. Most of it is just stolen from other extreme sports.

Its a bit embarassing.

People moan about it not being an olympic event, but how can olympic organisers take it seriously when the riders themselves arent prepared to take it seriously?

angry_bird

UCI changed the rules in 2008 for "safety reasons", banned open face helmets and skinsuits in DH and 4X. Chose the time to "strongly recommended" people wear more protective gear. This was just after Gee and Rach won their world champs in skin suits. Incidently I think previously Rach had kicked up a big fuss about T-Mo racing in a skinsuit in a world cup race because she beat her and it gave her an unfair advantage or something and didn't look cool :roll:

styxd

Do you remember the controversy when Barel removed the peak from his helmet?

bluechair84

styxd wrote:

They should use things like skin suits if it gives them a performance advantage.

I think they were worried it might damage the "image" of the sport.

of course, if everyone uses them, there is no advantage. But I think the second statement is probably true...

styxd

of course, if everyone uses them, there is no advantage

Thats always the argument isnt it.

But the fact is, they should all be looking to be as quick down the hill as they possibly can be. If that means removing peaks from their helmets and wearing skin suits then so be it.

You get all the mechanics harping on about the latest technology and this and that, whats the point when you've got some baggy motocross jersey flapping about in the wind!

bluechair84

yes, I suppose with that old argument , they could all still be riding on steel rigids with skinny tyres!

styxd

Back when downhill was cool!

njee20

I think it's naive to think that road racing has 'got' dirty. I think it's getting cleaner and cleaner every year! I don't doubt there's still some of it going on, but it's certainly not endemic like it was 10-20-30-40-50 years ago, it just didn't come to light until the late 90s.

There have been some mountain bikers banned for doping, Filip Mierhaeghe springs to mind. Sure there was another one, who killed himself a couple of years ago. Forget the name.

I do suspect that because there's less money in MTBing there's less pressure to be the best and to take those risks.

welshkev

styxd wrote:

People moan about it not being an olympic event, but how can olympic organisers take it seriously when the riders themselves arent prepared to take it seriously?

is that a comment about the fact that DH riders actually have fun whilst riding their bikes or that you think that they don't train hard, work hard and generally work their balls off to be the best they can be at their chosen discipline? :roll:

styxd

is that a comment about the fact that DH riders actually have fun whilst riding their bikes or that you think that they don't train hard, work hard and generally work their balls off to be the best they can be at their chosen discipline?

Im sure some of them train as hard and as much as they can do. I guess the results probably reflect this. Aaron Gwin seems to win most of the time, he looks like he trains hard.

To be fair, I dont take much interest in it anymore. But I do remember the days when (some of) the pros used to laugh at the idea of keeping fit, they'd prefer to be getting rad and supping beers instead. Which is obviously a proper good laugh, but I guess its hard to be taken seriously with this sort of outlook?

njee20

The (IMO valid) point was that skin suits were rejected because they didn't look cool, despite offering a measurable advantage. As said, they take the seals out of the bearings to make the bike quicker, but ignore clothing. There's an image over performance attitude.

I think it's also infamous for being a sport where plenty of riders get to the top without all that much hard work and training. Rob Warner for example, who made a massive thing about not really training per se, just riding his bike a bit. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I wonder if it goes against the 'ethos' of the Olympics. Or something. I think it's fair to say that many (and I don't mean all) are not the finely honed athletes that some of the other sports yield.

I'm not however suggesting it shouldn't be an Olympic sport. I think there are bigger issues with terrain and what not that don't exist with any other Olympic sport (ie you can't build a mountain to race down), and mountain biking is already such a minor part of the Olympics that I really can't see it being introduced.

Thewaylander

not convinced about the skin suit thing...

I seem to remember reading an article from about wind testing by trek were they were proved have less effect than the goggles been worn with there helmets. I will see if can find it.

Most importantly there not particle robust most skin suits, safety is paramount and having heavy denier gear has saved a few inches of my skin on numerous occasions.

welshkev

njee20 wrote:

.

I think it's also infamous for being a sport where plenty of riders get to the top without all that much hard work and training. Rob Warner for example, who made a massive thing about not really training per se, just riding his bike a bit. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I wonder if it goes against the 'ethos' of the Olympics. Or something. I think it's fair to say that many (and I don't mean all) are not the finely honed athletes that some of the other sports yield.

.

personally i think that's a different gereration of riders (rob warner last raced what? 10 years ago?), there's still some of the younger riders that are doing that now but they're usually not in the top 10. the top 10 riders are highly trained athletes (IMHO )

but i guess that it still does have that image to most people

njee20

Fair point on Warner, was just the rider who best epitomised it to me. From friends who've ridden with Steve Peat he's not too fussed either!

Have a read.

Rachel Atherton on Tracy Moseley's skin-suited victory:

"Fair enough to Tracy if she wants to do that to win, but for the sport and the longevity of the sport, to wear cool race kit and to make an image for yourself is more important than the odd win here and there," said Atherton.

Thewaylander

I think people would very suprised how fit most of the top riders are. 10 years ago or more it was an emerging sport, now its the biggest series of events in moutain biking.

But to be able to keep riding you need an excelent public image for sponsors,"The Cool" thing gets sponsors and that funds riders. There isn't huge lumps of cash for profesional mountain bikers like alot of sports.

CommyAdam

the (hardly scientific or thorough) consensus seems to be that none of us have really heard of sabotage (like nails on the track or messing with a rivals spokes/frame etc.) occurring in our sport.

Though there is some disagreement about what is an unfair advantage or not...and i must admit to me it seems that this comes as a result of lower pressure in the sport than in say, road cycling, with huge corporate sponsors and more widely viewed global events than in mountain biking.... or maybe mountain bikers are just a more relaxed breed....

welshkev

CommyAdam wrote:

the (hardly scientific or thorough) consensus seems to be that none of us have really heard of sabotage (like nails on the track or messing with a rivals spokes/frame etc.) occurring in our sport.

Though there is some disagreement about what is an unfair advantage or not...and i must admit to me it seems that this comes as a result of lower pressure in the sport than in say, road cycling, with huge corporate sponsors and more widely viewed global events than in mountain biking.... or maybe mountain bikers are just a more relaxed breed....

i think a bit of both really, not to say that if you weren't performing for your team (in mtb) they wouldn't kick you off next season and also i think in general mountain bikers are more relaxed and most do it for fun.

njee20

I think any sports person does it because they enjoy it, but yes I think mountain bikers are more chilled because they're not on multi-million pound contracts!

styxd

to wear cool race kit and to make an image for yourself is more important than the odd win here and there,

About the uncoolest thing you could do!

Worrying more about what you look like rather than whats going to give you the biggest performance gains.

Not that downhill mountain biking is a particularly cool sport anyway. Too many rich folk wanking over carbon rims, kashima stanchions and sombrio clothing, instead of just riding their bikes.

welshkev

njee20 wrote:

I think any sports person does it because they enjoy it, but yes I think mountain bikers are more chilled because they're not on multi-million pound contracts!

wasn't there a rumor a few years back that peaty was on a million pound a year contract? :?