The elderly behind the wheel

SimonAH

There are few things that worry me more when I see them on the road than a big, comfortable car being driven by a very elderly person.

Again today I was nearly taken out by a large Lexus with an Octogenarian at the wheel who looked directly at me as he was waiting to join the roundabout, and then pulled straight into my path a couple of feet from my front wheel.

It was a large flat A road meets B road roundabout and I was probably doing eighteen to twenty and avoided collision by mm.

WTF can you do? (apart from yell a bit)

BillyMansell

You're a commuter - hit them with a D lock.

rick_chasey

Guy on the club ride on Sunday got taken out by an elderly chap too.


Not much you can do unfortunately.

Don't know why mandatory driving re-tests for the over 60s every 5 or so years isn't enforced.

kelsen

I refer you to this...

SimonAH wrote:

Tool up properly of course;

SimonAH

kelsen wrote:

I refer you to this...

SimonAH wrote:

Tool up properly of course;

Yeah, but I have a strict rule about eating anything I kill - and old wrinkly meat doesn't appeal

veronese68

I agree. My boss was riding his motorbike along a dual carriageway a few years ago. As he passed a side turn an old guy drove into the side of him. How you drive into the side of a bike doing 50mph across the front of you rather than pulling in front of it is the thing. Bet he couldn't do that again if he tried.
One of my customers had an old man pull out on him on a country road last week. He was in his car, but still managed to break his sternum. The old guy says he never saw him. Flat straight road, nothing hiding him from view on a clear morning.
Until I get to 65, anyone over the age of 65 should have their licence revoked. From that point on they should add a year, every year until I shuffle off.

bails87

My occasional commuting buddy saw an old dear in a Micra take out/get taken out by an ambulance steaming through a junction with full lights and sirens on. Everyone else stopped, but the old lady just pulled out and (like in Veronese's tale) hit the side of the ambulance as it sped past.

We were talking about this on a ride after an encounter with a similar old lady in a similar Micra. She looked confused after coming around a right turn into a minor road on the wrong side of the road, to find us near the middle of the road about to turn right out of the minor road. She was only doing about 3mph but I don't think any reflexes had kicked in and she just about bimbled past us by chance rather than because she steered around us.

Gussio

Veronese68 wrote:

I agree. My boss was riding his motorbike along a dual carriageway a few years ago. As he passed a side turn an old guy drove into the side of him. How you drive into the side of a bike doing 50mph across the front of you rather than pulling in front of it is the thing. Bet he couldn't do that again if he tried.
One of my customers had an old man pull out on him on a country road last week. He was in his car, but still managed to break his sternum. The old guy says he never saw him. Flat straight road, nothing hiding him from view on a clear morning.
Until I get to 65, anyone over the age of 65 should have their licence revoked. From that point on they should add a year, every year until I shuffle off.

1. Two years ago someone I know was killed on a motorbike outside of Hereford when a 92 old gentleman pulled out of a side rode without looking, straight into his path. They were both killed at the scene

2. The only car accident where I have had the misfortune to help those involved, was in Lincoln when an elderly gentleman passed out behind the wheel and drove into a pretty solid tree. They were only travelling at around 20mph but there was no braking whatsoever and the tree didn't move. The car was so badly crumpled that the front wings tucked behind the doors, sealing them shut. His wife was in the car and suffered from Parkinson's, which was exacerbated by the crash. Trying to get them out of the smoking wreck, dreading causing additional injury but being more worried about them burning, will stay with me for a long time

3. Closest I have come to getting knocked off this year was by a an elderly woman coming onto the roundabout at Richmond Gate as I was already halfway round. Surely she will stop....surely.....aghhhh...she's not going to stop!! Not sure she ever realised that I existed....

Yes....there may be a good call for annual re-tests after the age of 65.

bails87

There should be regular retests throughout your 'driving life' IMO. 48 years is a long time to go without ever being checked up on, given allyou have to do nowadays is behave yourself for an hour at most. And it was a lot more relaxed in the olden days.

Big_Paul

A friend was killed on his motorcycle 15 years ago when an old lady, reversed out of her driveway, across a 9 foot wide pavement, across lane one and in front of him in lane 2. Family tried doing the speeding line, but the forensic folk showed he was 10mph below the limit in their estimation, went to court, she was fined, and this was in the days before penalty points in NI, £25 for careless driving.

I saw another old gent take out a petrol pump in a filling station with a Jag, reversed right into it, wondered why the car stopped then planted it. Only stopped when the car rode up onto the pump and the wheel came off the ground.

Mrs_Ragbrutty

I was hit by a gentleman in his 90's while I was out riding. He didn't see me or feel the impact or even notice that he left his wing mirror in my asrse.
I guess I was hard to spot in my hiviz jacket and multiduninous lights and reflective stickies.
The police wanted his licence revoked but it didn't happen.

peat

My grandmother (deceased) was caught driving the wrong down a slip-road onto a dual carriageway, in Bournemouth (she had gone to get her haircut near Oxford....) and they didn't revoke her licence.....

There seems to be this massive taboo around the subject.

EKE_38BPM

I was driving with my dad (mid 70s) and as we were going around a left hand curve in the road, he didn't steer enough and began drifting to the right onto the wrong side of the road.
I waited for him to correct...
and waited...
and waited.
Eventually I grabbed the steering wheel and yanked us back onto the correct side of the road, just in time to miss an oncoming car.
He was oblivious to the other car and had a major go at me for grabbing the steering wheel. Eventually (weeks later) he admitted not seeing the other car.

I do worry about his driving.

The elderly on the road are a major danger, but MPs won't do anything about them because most of them will be there one day (soon) and its a bit like turkeys voting for Xmas.
No retesting in 48 years despite all of the changes in cars and traffic is stupid.

tallmansix

And only this morning I had an old geezer parked on my side facing me just pull out across me because he was so busy looking behind to see me. I had lights on and high vis and shouted to no avail.

bompington

The problem is that our culture is entirely geared towards car transport: taking someone's licence away is considered equivalent to telling them to shuffle off and die. Mrs Bomp does the "falls clinic" at the local geriatric hospital once a week: she has had to tell patients (typically ones who are falling because they black out) to surrender their licence, they are naturally upset and reluctant to do it - "how will I manage without driving?" is always the cry.
Without doubt there are many, many elderly drivers who are a danger to themselves and everyone else - the issue is how to make sure they can get about without a car, and is really all about how we care for the elderly. Or don't, in most cases.

For the record, my closest near miss with an elderly driver was when I was driving down the A90 north of Dundee shortly after it was dualled - an old man pulled out from a side road straight in front of me as I was doing about 75, I am still somewhat amazed that I stopped, literally (and I literally mean literally) less than a metre from him - needless to say he had panicked and stopped clean across both lanes once he realised where he was.

jeepie

The only time (thankfully) I've been taken out by a car is when one turned across my path as I was travelling down a straight road. I was in high vis and had lights on. The old dude (80+ in my estimation) said he was really sorry but he'd driven down from Scotland and was exhausted. He hit me in Reading. Definitely not fit to drive, but what can you say. He was a cyclist too with a bike in the back.

The old do rely on their cars as they are not mobile so it's very tough to revoke their licenses as what are they supposed to do all day - just sit at home, drink tea and watch Blockbusters?

DrLex

Contrary anecdote time: wife's great aunt is 101 and still tootling about in her Micra, with Doc's full knowledge & approval. Takes her chums out to the community centre once a week. Drives better than the Mother Out-Law, IMHO...

mudcow007

+100000 for retaking their test

i reckon retake at 60 then every 2 years

i think this is what happens with HGV licences

bails87

And every 5 years between 17 and 60.....


Do you just have to sign yourself off as 'fit to drive' or is there an actual test?

BelgianBeerGeek

Absolute menace, IMO.
The missus was knocked off by some old bird on a roundabout about 5 years ago. I was right behind the missus and the old witch went around me to make a sharp left into Mrs BBG to exit the roundabout. Then she tried to drive away. Then claimed it was our fault "for being there". The Police were extremely reluctant to prosecute and she eventually did one of these driver course things. The whole experience was very depressing.
In a previous life I was a copper in a seaside town and the number of accidents involving old gits we attended definitely outweighed the ones involving the young.
I do not know why in this country we do not have a licensing system like the US have, with regular licence renewal for drivers of all ages. If they're fit to drive, fine, but I'm really not sure many are.

mudcovered

bails87 wrote:

And every 5 years between 17 and 60.....


Do you just have to sign yourself off as 'fit to drive' or is there an actual test?

I think it is self-certifying. You have to make a signed statement that there are no medical grounds preventing you from continuing driving. My mum is getting very close to this point and she is not willing to make that statement as she (rightly) doesn't think her eyesight is up to the job. A doctor can force you to suspend your license if you suffer from certain medical conditions.

Mike

SickAsAParrot

Take away their licence, give them subsidised taxi fares, they would need to go on a helluva lot of journeys to add up to the total cost of car ownership for a year.

bails87

They get a free bus pass, and what's the deal with ring and ride, is that only for people who have special requirements?

fossyant

My FIL is a nightmare. Wasn't supposed to drive last year after lung issues (i.e. very low oxygen readings - hospitalised and on oxygen for months) - guess what, he'd pop out to drive to the shop, even when just walking to the car would have him out of breath. If he'd passed out driving, god knows. Nothing we could do would stop him. He's much improved now, but his standard of driving is appaling. The number of times he prangs his car - dents, scratches, smashed wing mirrors and it goes on (drives a new Prius). Even manages to reverse into things with all the reversing sensors and colour reversing camera that even tells you where the car is going with overlayed graphics.

msmancunia

My uncle's the same. He's only 69 (!) but he's very overweight and has been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. He's had three fairly large crashes in the last five years, and I've lost count of the times I've had to tell him he's getting too close to the kerb when I've been in the passenger seat. But, "I've been driving 50 years - don't tell me how to drive".

The worst was when he brushed past a cyclist over the tops on the way to Chorley, who tackled him about it later on at the lights. I took the cyclist's side as my uncle was too close. After three weeks of the silent treatment he still wouldn't admit he was in the wrong, but I've told him I won't get in the car with him again.

secretsam

1. Roundabout, sunny Bristol, old git in a Marina, decided to exit roundabout suddenly (no signal) but the fact that I was in his way didn't seem to register, he kept going with me clinging onto his wing, and him waving at me to get off

2. Another old git, again in Bristol, comes up a hill past some roadworks where they've coned off one lane, workers doing the whole digging and drilling thing, he hits the first cone, then the second...keeps going, collecting cones as he goes along, they were piling up in front of his car and making an unbelievable racket as they scrape against the road - he must have had 20+ there. Workmen running after him, shaking pick-axes, etc. Old git just bimbles on...terrifying.

Both my Mum (73) and her Dad before her got to the age when they stopped feeling safe in a car and jacked it in. Both were lucky in that they lived in an area well served by buses, etc., but still - they did the decent thing. As will I when it's my turn. But as someone pointed out, no politician will vote for mandatory re-testing over age 65.

wgwarburton

Hi,
There should be regular retests every five years or so. It would mean more driving testers but that's just the sort of self-funding beaurocracy that recent governments seem to specialise in, only this one would save lives.

There are plenty of drivers who shouldn't be on the roads, young and old, and the attitude that a driving license is a social necessity that can't be revoked needs to change.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. If people need a driving license to do their jobs then they need to make sure they don't lose it.

Cheers,
W.

gabriel959

Subscribe the above 100%.

davmaggs

There is a condition where the person doesn't see a moving object. For them the motorbike is far away, then vanishes so they carry on with their maneuver. To the rest of us we see a steady path as said motorbike gets nearer and nearer.

So, despite what you say about being obvious they genuinely didn't see you when they pulled out.

CiB

davmaggs wrote:

There is a condition where the person doesn't see a moving object. For them the motorbike is far away, then vanishes so they carry on with their maneuver. To the rest of us we see a steady path as said motorbike gets nearer and nearer.

So, despite what you say about being obvious they genuinely didn't see you when they pulled out.

Would that be like the buffoon this morning who shot the roundabout I was already on, making me veer violently to my right to avoid close inspection of his vehicle's underside? Luckily it was one of those huge earth moving trucks with plenty of wheels fore & aft so I probably wouldn't have felt much, not for long anyway. Driver looked like he was in his late 50s maybe a bit more, wearing a big pair of glasses but presumably not bothering to peer through them too much. Not enough to spot a cyclist already on the r/about.

The elderly can be a menace, so can everybody. Most people though seem to know when the game's up. My grandad did, my old boy doesn't drive much these days and when he does he's pretty steady and stays off the main roads where traffic is faster. I don't agree with the consensus in this thread; old people need to have some mobility and for those (mine) that live out of the way being placed under effective house arrest for days on end on the failings of some of a similar age isn't fair, in the same way that we get narked at newspaper comments that tar all cyclists as RLJ / pavement pansies etc.

bails87

I think the general consensus was on retests, not that everyone over some really old age like 40 should be banned from driving.

If someone is properly tested and shown to be unsafe then they shouldn't drive.