BOXING!!! Kahn vs Chisora!
DonDaddyD
Posts: 12,689
OK, so I've long since thought that boxing is a sport in decline.
But this weekend had me sweetly surprised. First up:
Haye vs Chisora
OK this was a nothing bout for some International Belt that Frank Warren bought. Yes £20,000 will go to charity to appease those still disgusted with how this fight came about. Me, I fought it was brilliant!. But lets face it, Heavyweight boxing needed something and the winner of this fight will go on to fight a Klitschko (Haye wins he fights Vitaly*. If Chisora wins he'd fight Wlad).
So Haye won, in my personal opinion Chisora looked the more dominant as Haye was forced to fight on the backfoot. Haye can't fight on the inside though and this is why he does this. It is also why I think Haye won't ever make a truly dominant heavyweight, even against the current stock of fighters. All that said Chisora never really worried Haye, I'm not impressed with his physique or his technical skills. Basically Haye was always going to win being the better fighter.
This sets up a fight for Haye against the other Klitschko. The one everyone says is more talented. Thing is Vitali - who took Lennox to retirement as a Lennox, at his most heaviest, couldn't knock him out - is 40yrs old and couldn't knock out Chisora. It took Haye five rounds to knock out Chisora. Vitali also doesn't fight like his brother, he is more open stands off the opponent and trades. Wladimir is very defensive, he works from a very good jab and you need to be able to fight on the inside, get in close and take a right hook if you are going fight him. All of which Haye cannot do. But Vitali isn't Wladimir, Vitali is more exciting to watch, Wlad harder to beat IMO. I reckon Haye might do better against Vitali, he'll still lose though.
Kahn vs Garcia
Best knockout ever.
I have never seen a fight where the guy who loses looks that good, that sharp and that dominant in a fight and gets that knocked out.
Honestly, I could have been watching a heavyweight bout! Personally I think Kahn is washed up or, if he continues, he has to fight journey men, stepping stones and guys who lack real kockout power. Sounds harsh but you shouldn't be getting knocked out at like that at light welterweight. You don't often see one punch knockouts (bam one punch knock the guy spark out) like that at weights below middleweight and it is usually a rare and special fighter who can do it. Sure, perhaps Garcia is that rare fighter who has power without the need for weight (Naseem Hamed was another). Trouble is, Kahn has been knocked out like this on two occassions and it is likely that any fighter he gets in the ring with now will be looking for that knockout blow as they know he can't take a real punch. Chinny.
Still T'was a good fight weekend.
Discuss.
But this weekend had me sweetly surprised. First up:
Haye vs Chisora
OK this was a nothing bout for some International Belt that Frank Warren bought. Yes £20,000 will go to charity to appease those still disgusted with how this fight came about. Me, I fought it was brilliant!. But lets face it, Heavyweight boxing needed something and the winner of this fight will go on to fight a Klitschko (Haye wins he fights Vitaly*. If Chisora wins he'd fight Wlad).
So Haye won, in my personal opinion Chisora looked the more dominant as Haye was forced to fight on the backfoot. Haye can't fight on the inside though and this is why he does this. It is also why I think Haye won't ever make a truly dominant heavyweight, even against the current stock of fighters. All that said Chisora never really worried Haye, I'm not impressed with his physique or his technical skills. Basically Haye was always going to win being the better fighter.
This sets up a fight for Haye against the other Klitschko. The one everyone says is more talented. Thing is Vitali - who took Lennox to retirement as a Lennox, at his most heaviest, couldn't knock him out - is 40yrs old and couldn't knock out Chisora. It took Haye five rounds to knock out Chisora. Vitali also doesn't fight like his brother, he is more open stands off the opponent and trades. Wladimir is very defensive, he works from a very good jab and you need to be able to fight on the inside, get in close and take a right hook if you are going fight him. All of which Haye cannot do. But Vitali isn't Wladimir, Vitali is more exciting to watch, Wlad harder to beat IMO. I reckon Haye might do better against Vitali, he'll still lose though.
Kahn vs Garcia
Best knockout ever.
I have never seen a fight where the guy who loses looks that good, that sharp and that dominant in a fight and gets that knocked out.
Honestly, I could have been watching a heavyweight bout! Personally I think Kahn is washed up or, if he continues, he has to fight journey men, stepping stones and guys who lack real kockout power. Sounds harsh but you shouldn't be getting knocked out at like that at light welterweight. You don't often see one punch knockouts (bam one punch knock the guy spark out) like that at weights below middleweight and it is usually a rare and special fighter who can do it. Sure, perhaps Garcia is that rare fighter who has power without the need for weight (Naseem Hamed was another). Trouble is, Kahn has been knocked out like this on two occassions and it is likely that any fighter he gets in the ring with now will be looking for that knockout blow as they know he can't take a real punch. Chinny.
Still T'was a good fight weekend.
Discuss.
Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Call me a grumpy old man but these two fights - entertaining as they were - reminded me of just how far boxing has fallen. Khan still fights like an amateur - stands straight up, throws clusters of punches that would score well at the Olympics but which leave him wide open for the counter - yet he was fighting for two world titles and was hailed as one of the sport's big stars. Garcia is just mediocre - if he hadn't landed that punch (and he is by no means a killer puncher based on past record, this was all about Khan's chin and his inability to cover up and just survive) he was going to get stopped. Dont even get me started on the other two!0
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Nothing below that line to indicate otherwise imho...OK, so I've long since thought that boxing is a sport in decline.0 -
OH COME ON!
dhope, so this isn't Gatti vs Ward or Tyson vs Ruddock 1. But we have to work with what we've got. If Arsenal got relegated to a lower division I wouldn't dismiss or stop supporting Arsenal purely on the basis that it is a team in decline (it actually is) and the statndard of their football was no longer as good as it had been.
I agree with Paulie, Kahn does look good but if he going to fight like that he is going to have to take a punch and actually hurt his opponents. It just seems like he has never moved from point scoring. I don't agree that Garcia doesn't have a killer punch. He is 24, had 24 fights and won 15 by knockout. At that weight that's a pretty good ratio. Incidentally Kahn has had 29 fights and 18 wins by knockout. - I can't remember him ever knocking out someone with a one punch number.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Boxing's in a whole heap of trouble at the moment and that weekend has done nothing to save it.
One of the belts now have a champion and a super champion! Idiots.
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KO ratios only mean something when you look at the opposition - I'm assuming you've never seen Garcia fight before? Trust me, he is not a destructive puncher - solid yes but far from a true KO artist.
Not sure I see the Arsenal analogy. The trouble with boxing right now is that you have to pay a lot to see these 'big' fights when they are often at a level of skill that would have been on free to air TV - on Grandstand or Fight Night or such like - not so many years ago. There is no depth of talent in the sport any more - hence the continued success of ancient fighters like Hopkins and fighters boxing way above their natural weight like Pacquiao or Morales (the ancient Morales, who should be sitting at home possibly with his grandkids, fighting 14 pounds above his prime weight, gave Garcia all the trouble he needed). The sport is no longer attracting the athletes it did in the past, especially at HW, and it seems to me that many of the sport's key skills - you know like slipping a punch - have been forgotten by boxers and trainers alike.0 -
My understanding is that a Super Champion is a person who holds more than one belt in a division. An easy concept, no?TheStone wrote:Boxing's in a whole heap of trouble at the moment and that weekend has done nothing to save it.
One of the belts now have a champion and a super champion! Idiots.
The Klitschko's have done much to stifle the Heavyweight division. They only fight on their home soil, really one sided contracts and they hand pick opponents. In reality Chisora should never have been given a title shot, he lost to Tyson Fury!
When the Klitschko's retire, a new generation of hungry fighters will start popping up as they'll get the chances they couldn't under the Klitschko reign. There are a few upcoming middleweights that look good. I'm going to see a couple on Friday! The lower divisions are exciting IMO.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Oh and the notion that Garcia-Khan was the best KO ever - I suggest you peruse Youtube for about 5 minutes to disabuse yourself of that notion.0
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DonDaddyD wrote:
My understanding is that a Super Champion is a person who holds more than one belt in a division. An easy concept, no?TheStone wrote:Boxing's in a whole heap of trouble at the moment and that weekend has done nothing to save it.
One of the belts now have a champion and a super champion! Idiots.
No, that's not what it means - what it means is that it is a 'cunning' way of bodies like the WBC and WBA making extra fees out of 'world title' fights!0 -
They wear silk shorts (draw your own conclusions). And its a shoot sport.What do you mean you think 64cm is a big frame?0
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Paulie W wrote:KO ratios only mean something when you look at the opposition - I'm assuming you've never seen Garcia fight before? Trust me, he is not a destructive puncher - solid yes but far from a true KO artist.
Maybe, but you don't often get a knockout artisit at that weight - to me this says more about Kahn an an inability to take a punch than it does about Garcia's power.
Boxing is in decline, I'm still a fan regardless of the poor level of fighters. If Arsenal was in a decline, I'd still be a fan regardless of the poor level of players.Not sure I see the Arsenal analogy.
I agree.The trouble with boxing right now is that you have to pay a lot to see these 'big' fights when they are often at a level of skill that would have been on free to air TV - on Grandstand or Fight Night or such like - not so many years ago.There is no depth of talent in the sport any more - hence the continued success of ancient fighters like Hopkins and fighters boxing way above their natural weight like Pacquiao or Morales (the ancient Morales, who should be sitting at home possibly with his grandkids, fighting 14 pounds above his prime weight, gave Garcia all the trouble he needed).
Mmmm for the time being, after the olympics I think there is going to be a few good British fighters across all weight divisons. Watch the upcoming fighters at the national level. Sure there not a polished but the potential and more importantly the hunger is there!
I agree I haven't seen a slipped punch in a while. Most do that cat slp thing now where they see the job coming and then they slap it away with their hand and then counter with a jab.
Interestingly what is your favourite knockout?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Hearns-Shuler takes some beating (looked like he'd been shot) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1w2VcZT3Y
And check out any number of Arguello victories for the quintessential lighter weight KO artist but his KO of Kevin Rooney (Tyson's future trainer) takes some beating (around 12:50).0 -
Great choices!
Hearns is probably the best example of a great boxer who was susceptible to being knocked out. But yeah that was a great knockout by Hearns!
I suppose my love of the Kahn/Garcia knockout isn't the punch but Kahn's body-popping afterwards...Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
In this analogy though Arsenal = Khan and Boxing = Football. Arsenal/Khan are just a bit ropey, but the overall standard of the Premiership is sound, whereas HW boxing is pants.DonDaddyD wrote:
Boxing is in decline, I'm still a fan regardless of the poor level of fighters. If Arsenal was in a decline, I'd still be a fan regardless of the poor level of players.Not sure I see the Arsenal analogy.0 -
I do like watching Hatton KO Callzo.
Awesome body shot!!Little boy to Obama: "My Dad says that you read all our emails"
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Kona Honky Tonk for sale: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40090&t=130008070 -
DonDaddyD wrote:I suppose my love of the Kahn/Garcia knockout isn't the punch but Khan's body-popping afterwards...
Kostya Tszyu Vs Zab Judah for top quality post KO punch body popping: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPBJoQp7aH4 (around 7:00).0 -
I've never thought Khan was anywhere near as good as he was made out to be, he has some good scalps on his record, but the likes of Barrera and Judah were well shot by the time they fought him. Anybody with a decent chin and a decent punch has a chance against Khan, for some reason he takes a decent shot and his legs just go away from him, Prescott's first scoring jab set him off in their fight, and that left from Gracia, not even a flush punch, had him all over the place. Also, it's unlikely Golden Boy will keep hold of him, he's clean out of the picture, unless there's silly money put up, there's no hope of him fighting Mayweather, which in any case would be another career disaster as he's not even in the same league as Floyd and it would be shown to the world.
Chisora - Haye was a freak show, something very suspect that Chisora, who took full thumps from Fury (big eejit, but has a dig) and Klitschko without moving, is floored by an overgrown Cruiserweight?
Vitali v Haye would be a waste of time, there's no way Haye would ever KO him, and he'd either dance about for 12 rounds until the inevitable hometown decision, or walk onto a right hand and wake up with a crowd round him.Disc Trucker
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