Team sizes for international championship races.

Rundfahrt

Reading the ProCycling issue with the Olympic preview got me to thinking how odd it is in cycling that team sizes are not the same across the board in races such as the Olympic and World Championship road races. I honestly can't think of another sport that does this, off the top of my head. What is the point of putting teams at a disadvantage and others at a big advantage simply because of rankings? Imagine if Spain was allowed to bring 30 players to the World Cup or use 4 subs. Or if Costa Rica could only bring 11. Seems quite silly to me. I get that you have to limit the number of riders, but you could do like other sports do and have different championship levels based on rankings, so the Olympics would include only the top 20 countries, for instance.

rebs

I think its simply down to the number of countries that enter teams. They all cant be 9 deep. Can you imagine the carnage and extra crashes that would cause?

Rundfahrt

I already mentioned that. It doesn't have to be nine per team. You could have five per team and be able to have 40 countries represented and nobody gets an advantage or a disadvantage.

rick_chasey

You have to qualify to get into the olympics.

Not any old chump can ride.

It's the same for any sport.

Unsurprisingly, some nations produce more good cyclists than others.

tailwindhome

Rundfahrt wrote:

I already mentioned that. It doesn't have to be nine per team. You could have five per team and be able to have 40 countries represented and nobody gets an advantage or a disadvantage.

The quality of the field would be reduced dramatically.

With the 40th country have 5 cyclists capable of competing?

Rundfahrt

Rick, I think we all know that and it ignores the World Championships as well as not actually adding anything to the real topic.

Tailwind home- it does not have to be 40 countries, I was just pointing out how simple it would be to have as many nations needed and not have to many riders. I even talked of 20 countries in my original post.

RichN95.

I actually agree with Rundy on this one - and I'm not even drunk yet

I find it baffling that there should be any race with uneven teams - especially as the weaker teams are handicapped. I wouldn't have 40 teams though. The top 25 or 30 countries would qualify based on the previous year's performance, with a good spread across globe, with 6 or 7 riders in each team (as long as they are Continental standard at least).

Why should Sagan, EBH or Hesjedal be given a huge handicap every time because come from an untraditional cycling nation.

And it's a World Championships, not another World Tour race - so I want to see the Iranians, Chinese, Colombians and Algerians turn up on an even footing.

cougie

Not all countries are equal though. Whilst it might be nice for say Easter Island (or wherever) to compete - if they arent in the top few hundred riders - they've no chance and are probably a liability with their lack of riding skills.

Rundfahrt

cougie wrote:

Not all countries are equal though. Whilst it might be nice for say Easter Island (or wherever) to compete - if they arent in the top few hundred riders - they've no chance and are probably a liability with their lack of riding skills.

But would a country like that qualify? I would also leave it up to the teams. You have five spots, if you choose to bring three, so be it.

RichN95.

cougie wrote:

Not all countries are equal though. Whilst it might be nice for say Easter Island (or wherever) to compete - if they arent in the top few hundred riders - they've no chance and are probably a liability with their lack of riding skills.

That's a little patronising to some decent countries outside the mainstream.
Let's not forget that it wasn't so long ago that Britain had next to no-one to write home about.
The Worlds need a global flavour and reflect the best from the all the continents, giving opportunities to developing countries. It shouldn't be a race rigged in favour of the establishment

richard wants a baum

While i agree with the principle I think the current system lets the best riders compete, what would happen if Slovakia didnt have enough points to qualify and because of that Sagan isn't allowed to race at least this way he can race .

RichN95.

richard wants a baum wrote:

While i agree with the principle I think the current system lets the best riders compete, what would happen if Slovakia didnt have enough points to qualify and because of that Sagan isn't allowed to race at least this way he can race .

I see your point, but if Slovakia didn't qualify (in the top 25-30 nations), under the current system he would probably be on his own anyway, up against nine man teams. Given the option, I'm sure he'd rather have sporadic qualification with an equal team than persistently being lumbered with a massive handicap.

richard wants a baum

Its a hard one there will always be a scenario where it would play out better if it was organized the other way. It was the hardest thing to get my head around when i first started following cycling didn't seem fair, but you can't have a massive field of riders it would be carnage. I think it comes from the days where you had the big three France Italy and Belgium, possible time to look at it again for the UCI, but first they need to fix the menace of the unzipped Jersey , did you see Rolland struggle with his zip on stage 11 :roll:

timoid.

I think there should be a compromise. Having 9 riders for the big teams is just too much of an advantage - see Cav last year. If you said that riders were included by ranking points world and continental, but limited team to a maximum of 5 riders and still had a field of 200 odd you'd have much more widespread and fair participation.

And on the point re Sagan. His results alone would put Slovakia in the top 10.

richard wants a baum

Timoid. wrote:

And on the point re Sagan. His results alone would put Slovakia in the top 10.

True but then he has to do the same every year god forbid he has a crash and doesn't win so prolifically one year .

jibberjim

RichN95 wrote:

I see your point, but if Slovakia didn't qualify (in the top 25-30 nations), under the current system he would probably be on his own anyway, up against nine man teams. Given the option, I'm sure he'd rather have sporadic qualification with an equal team than persistently being lumbered with a massive handicap.

So Wiggins, Froome, Millar, Stannard, Cavendish
vs
Sagan, Velits, Velits, Jaroslav the Plumber, Vrakto the Accountant

How does having Jaroslav and Vrakto make it an equal race? They'll get dropped immediately?