Getting disappointed with Sky's lack of support for Cav

the_cyclist_of_catan

OK, it was always going to play out like this, but Sky's total commitment to Wiggins' GC efforts leave Cav high and dry day after day this Tour. I think there's been one day when they've worked for Cav; today is yet another clear example of how he hasn't a hope of getting stage wins all on his own.

Rundfahrt

If they support Cav and lose the yellow jersey would that be good?

Monty Dog

It was always going to happen but expect Cav will get the works for the Champs Elysee finish.

Turnbull2000

Surely Cav knew this was coming? He's gone for the pay cheque IMO.

the_cyclist_of_catan

Well, the way it's played out has confirmed what I thought when Cav moved to Sky. He had a team built around him, with no GC contenders, at HTC, and won stage after stage. Greipel has the same luxury this year and is doing the same. In his position, I'm not sure Sky could have ever offered me enough money to make the switch, because with Wiggins, Froome and the yellow jumper being the absolute focus, Cav's hope of setting stage win records are surely doomed.

Turfle

Who should they have dropped from the front group to help him? Wiggins, Froome, Rogers, or EBH?

jonginge

He was way too far back in the group at the start of the climb. Griepel wasn't and just managed to stay. (He said in the interview that he was in the last two riders at the summit)

smithy21

The Cyclist of Catan wrote:

Well, the way it's played out has confirmed what I thought when Cav moved to Sky. He had a team built around him, with no GC contenders, at HTC, and won stage after stage. Greipel has the same luxury this year and is doing the same. In his position, I'm not sure Sky could have ever offered me enough money to make the switch, because with Wiggins, Froome and the yellow jumper being the absolute focus, Cav's hope of setting stage win records are surely doomed.

Where do you suggest he should have gone? Its not as if staying put was an option.

I think this move will work for Cav. If the first week had gone a little differently he could have had another couple of wins. As it is Greipel and Sagan both have 3. I think this will in the longer term move Cav towards becoming a more well rounded rider. Its the first year and its a bit of an odd one due to the Olympics.

From my point of view at HTC they were almost too far in the other direction. They were playing a game at 100% that no-one else was playing. Every team has a sprinter but no other team devoted their whole squad to him.

He still has 3 stage wins at the Giro and one at the Tour.

the_cyclist_of_catan

Given his lack of finishing speed when facing *real* sprinters, I can't see any point in EBH trying to contest a stage like that. Two to look after Wiggins at the front, not wasting energy leading the pack but just marking Evans/ Nibali etc, and the rest dragging Cav back into contention would have been my plan. Whilst it was 100% clear that there was not going to be any hope of a green jersey competition for Cav, I think that there have been several missed opportunities in terms of stage wins, of which today was a prime example.

I can only guess that Cav's pay deal is either obscene enough that he doesn't care (though his expressions tell a different story), or Brailsford's promised him a gold medal later this month. But I'm not going to be putting any money on Cav getting one; winning the test event after two laps against a mediocre field is not IMO much of a guide to how he'll perform after nine climbs with pretty much every other nation working against him to bring about a situation like today's.

luckao

Turfle wrote:

Who should they have dropped from the front group to help him? Wiggins, Froome, Rogers, or EBH?

Nobody. That gap was never getting bridged towards the end. As JonGinge alluded to, he at least needed to be in touch with the back of the group.

cougie

Yellow trumps stage wins hands down.

Hopefully an Olympic gold for Cav will make up for the tour.

RichN95.

Cavendish on the stages Greipel has contended (and therefore ones possible for him):

St 2: Won
St 4: Caught behind crash
St 5: Fifth (self confessed error)
St 6: Caught behind crash
St 13: Dropped on climb

Now, a full team on the front may have kept out of those crashes, but the team were already trying to keep Wiggins out of them, so that should have been enough.

And let's not forget Sky have lost Sivtsov and have a credible Plan B in the sprints.

At the Olympics (his no.1 target this year) he'll have full support.

Turfle

The Cyclist of Catan wrote:

Given his lack of finishing speed when facing *real* sprinters, I can't see any point in EBH trying to contest a stage like that. Two to look after Wiggins at the front, not wasting energy leading the pack but just marking Evans/ Nibali etc, and the rest dragging Cav back into contention would have been my plan. Whilst it was 100% clear that there was not going to be any hope of a green jersey competition for Cav, I think that there have been several missed opportunities in terms of stage wins, of which today was a prime example.

I can only guess that Cav's pay deal is either obscene enough that he doesn't care (though his expressions tell a different story), or Brailsford's promised him a gold medal later this month. But I'm not going to be putting any money on Cav getting one; winning the test event after two laps against a mediocre field is not IMO much of a guide to how he'll perform after nine climbs with pretty much every other nation working against him to bring about a situation like today's.

EBH has sprinted once against *real* sprinters this year, and beat every one of them. That includes the two who beat him today.

The problem today was that EBH was clearly missing some spark after his exertions in the mountains.

Porte was blown out in the crosswinds, and Eisel was way behind Cav on the climb. The only way they could have dragged Cav back to the group would have been to leave Rogers and EBH behind with him, and leaving Wiggins and Froome exposed in the crosswinds.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Cavendish on the stages Greipel has contended (and therefore ones possible for him):

St 2: Won
St 4: Caught behind crash
St 5: Fifth (self confessed error)
St 6: Caught behind crash
St 13: Dropped on climb

Now, a full team on the front may have kept out of those crashes, but the team were already trying to keep Wiggins out of them, so that should have been enough.

And let's not forget Sky have lost Sivtsov and have a credible Plan B in the sprints.

At the Olympics (his no.1 target this year) he'll have full support.

Olympics: Dropped on climb..... .

Turfle

Luckao wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Who should they have dropped from the front group to help him? Wiggins, Froome, Rogers, or EBH?

Nobody. That gap was never getting bridged towards the end. As JonGinge alluded to, he at least needed to be in touch with the back of the group.

I reckon they knew that was going to be a bit too steep for Cav to stay up there. Of the sprinters, only Sagan and EBH made it over. Even Goss didn't make it. Can only assume Cav was way behind as he didn't even make the Greipel group.

RichN95.

The Cyclist of Catan wrote:

Given his lack of finishing speed when facing *real* sprinters, I can't see any point in EBH trying to contest a stage like that. Two to look after Wiggins at the front, not wasting energy leading the pack but just marking Evans/ Nibali etc, and the rest dragging Cav back into contention would have been my plan. Whilst it was 100% clear that there was not going to be any hope of a green jersey competition for Cav, I think that there have been several missed opportunities in terms of stage wins, of which today was a prime example.

Those bits in bold: Sky only had four in the front group - two of which are protected riders on this stage plus Rogers and EBH. So they didn't have any riders to drop back - if desperate maybe one - it wouldn't have made a difference.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Olympics: Dropped on climb..... .

Almost certainly, but with 60km to go and a team that would have been a shoo in for the 100km TT had they kept that event (they should bring that back).

luckao

Turfle wrote:

Luckao wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Who should they have dropped from the front group to help him? Wiggins, Froome, Rogers, or EBH?

Nobody. That gap was never getting bridged towards the end. As JonGinge alluded to, he at least needed to be in touch with the back of the group.

I reckon they knew that was going to be a bit too steep for Cav to stay up there. Of the sprinters, only Sagan and EBH made it over. Even Goss didn't make it. Can only assume Cav was way behind as he didn't even make the Greipel group.

He went out of the back quite early on. That would have made it even more ridiculous to sacrifice Sky men for him.

Le Commentateur

I think he'll quit the race on the rest day and get ready for London.

tailwindhome

Says a lot about todays stage that no-one is screaming for this to be merged to the spoiler thread.

RichN95 wrote:

Almost certainly, but with 60km to go and a team that would have been a shoo in for the 100km TT had they kept that event (they should bring that back).

Seb Coe may get that 60km resurfaced if Sky/GB are going to bring Boonen back

rozzer32

I bet Cav is regretting not moving to Omega Quickstep. They have no real GC contenders so could have built a team with a decent lead out train for Cav. He would have stayed on Specialized instead of the awful Pina's. HTC riders and staff went to Quickstep so he would have already knew the guys and how they work etc. To be honest I think Sky wanted a British world champion on a British team and to win the Olympics in Britain and they offered him so much money he couldn't turn it down.

rick_chasey

I can't wait for the road race actually.

A proper one day race than on paper looks like it hangs in the balance.

As much as I like the Tour, it's no one day race.

RichN95.

rozzer32 wrote:

I bet Cav is regretting not moving to Omega Quickstep. They have no real GC contenders so could have built a team with a decent lead out train for Cav. He would have stayed on Specialized instead of the awful Pina's. HTC riders and staff went to Quickstep so he would have already knew the guys and how they work etc. To be honest I think Sky wanted a British world champion on a British team and to win the Olympics in Britain and they offered him so much money he couldn't turn it down.

Quick Step's season finishes on Easter Sunday, though.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

rozzer32 wrote:

I bet Cav is regretting not moving to Omega Quickstep. They have no real GC contenders so could have built a team with a decent lead out train for Cav. He would have stayed on Specialized instead of the awful Pina's. HTC riders and staff went to Quickstep so he would have already knew the guys and how they work etc. To be honest I think Sky wanted a British world champion on a British team and to win the Olympics in Britain and they offered him so much money he couldn't turn it down.

Quick Step's season finishes on Easter Sunday, though.

Woah, Tour of Belgium in May!

And the Saturday before the Tour....

alan_a

Le Commentateur wrote:

I think he'll quit the race on the rest day and get ready for London.

Disagree. Cav has tasted success on the Champs 3 times and has previously stated that winning there is worth more than all his other triumphs.

iainf72

Alan A wrote:

Le Commentateur wrote:

I think he'll quit the race on the rest day and get ready for London.

Disagree. Cav has tasted success on the Champs 3 times and has previously stated that winning there is worth more than all his other triumphs.

I wonder where coming 2nd to Greipel would rate? :P

DeadCalm

Alan A wrote:

Le Commentateur wrote:

I think he'll quit the race on the rest day and get ready for London.

Disagree. Cav has tasted success on the Champs 3 times and has previously stated that winning there is worth more than all his other triumphs.

I think he also genuinely wants to be a part of a team with the yellow in Paris.

Lichtblick

FWIW (I've only been following the Tour since 2005) I think the sprint finishes this year are far more interesting without the HTC train and stages having Cavendish-win written all over them. I also think that Sagan's more interesting per se.

I miss Hushovd though. Another much more interesting rider than Cavendish. IMO.

rick_chasey

Lichtblick wrote:

FWIW (I've only been following the Tour since 2005) I think the sprint finishes this year are far more interesting without the HTC train and stages having Cavendish-win written all over them. I also think that Sagan's more interesting per se.

I miss Hushovd though. Another much more interesting rider than Cavendish. IMO.

Only. That's 7 years!

You're right though.

Rundfahrt

Even if HTC had stayed I think Cav would have had only one more year of a total team effort for him. Look at what Teejay has done in this Tour. No way Stapleton would not have shifted gears and gone for the big prize.

iainf72

I see he got an award from L'equipe for being the best sprinter Tour history.

Which would be the GC equivalent of "most stylish wearer of polyester trousers" I suppose. :P