Garmin Edge 800

1spaceboo

I am thinking of buying a Garmin Edge 800 but not sure whether to buy it with OS maps for around £320 or just the unit by itself for £250 and then use Open cycle maps to load the maps on to it. Has anyone got experience in either of the options and make a recommendation for me?
I did briefly get the Bryton 50, but really wasn't impressed with initial trials so sent it back.
I would like to use it find find new trails when I am out and about and also to see where I am when I get lost on the north downs.
Any replys would be grateful.

Cheers.

YeehaaMcgee

I use OpenHiking maps on my phone, and whilst I'm not overly impressed with the mapping quality, they get me by.
What I tend to do is have a look at OS maps on Bing, then mark out a few possible routes.
I can then send these routes to my phone to follow, and the Openmaps helps me get my bearings. If that makes sense.

bails87

^ What he said. I've got a Garmin 800, not had a much chance to use it as I've been off the bike due to injury almost since I bought it.

But the OSM maps are very good. I use bikeroutetoaster.com to plot a route, import it into the Garmin Basecamp software and put it on the device. Whether I'm on or off road it gives good directions. I haven't tried any 'on-the-fly' navigation' but the pre-planned stuff is excellent.

1spaceboo

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

I use OpenHiking maps on my phone, and whilst I'm not overly impressed with the mapping quality, they get me by.
What I tend to do is have a look at OS maps on Bing, then mark out a few possible routes.
I can then send these routes to my phone to follow, and the Openmaps helps me get my bearings. If that makes sense.

I did think about using my iphone, but was firstly worried about safely mounting it on my handlebars, and secondly the battery life, anything over a few hours and I think that the battery will be nearly dead.

1spaceboo

bails87 wrote:

^ What he said. I've got a Garmin 800, not had a much chance to use it as I've been off the bike due to injury almost since I bought it.

But the OSM maps are very good. I use bikeroutetoaster.com to plot a route, import it into the Garmin Basecamp software and put it on the device. Whether I'm on or off road it gives good directions. I haven't tried any 'on-the-fly' navigation' but the pre-planned stuff is excellent.

So do you think its worth spending maybe an extra £70 to get the OS maps included?
What is the detail like, are there a lot of 'off-road' routes shown, and how easy is it to read whilst riding?

Thanks,

YeehaaMcgee

1spaceboo wrote:

I did think about using my iphone, but was firstly worried about safely mounting it on my handlebars, and secondly the battery life, anything over a few hours and I think that the battery will be nearly dead.

I just keep mine in my pocket/camera bag or camelbak. Pop it out every now and again to check the route etc.
However, I use a HTC Winphone7, and i bought an enormous battery for it, so I could use GPS all day long without a problem.

If the OS maps are true OS maps, then they'll have as much detail as any other OS map.
Like I said, I'm getting by ok with the OpenMaps, but use OS maps on Bing to plan and mark out routes.

bails87

1spaceboo wrote:

bails87 wrote:

^ What he said. I've got a Garmin 800, not had a much chance to use it as I've been off the bike due to injury almost since I bought it.

But the OSM maps are very good. I use bikeroutetoaster.com to plot a route, import it into the Garmin Basecamp software and put it on the device. Whether I'm on or off road it gives good directions. I haven't tried any 'on-the-fly' navigation' but the pre-planned stuff is excellent.

So do you think its worth spending maybe an extra £70 to get the OS maps included?
What is the detail like, are there a lot of 'off-road' routes shown, and how easy is it to read whilst riding?

Thanks,

Just in case you hadn't noticed, I was talking about the Open Source maps (OSM) rather than the Ordnance Survey maps (OS). Confusing eh.

But, like I said, I've had no issues with the OSM maps. And there are sites that let you look at an Ordnance Survey map (bing, bikehike) to plan a route, which you can then put on the Garmin and follow. The Open Source maps, for me, in my limited use of them, have been spot on. I'm not regretting not buying the Ordnance Survey maps.

bails87

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

If the OS maps are true OS maps, then they'll have as much detail as any other OS map.

From what I've seen of the OS maps on Garmins, they're just an image, so when you zoom in it's not actually that useful, whereas the OSMs scale down the width of the roads when you zoom in to stop the image becoming cluttered. OSMs obviously have the potential for 'completeness' issues, but in terms of usablilty they actually seem nicer than the OS ones.

YeehaaMcgee

Seriously, can you please stop referring to OpenMaps as OSM? Since OSM can also mean OS Maps?
It makes your posts very hard to follow.

I didn't know that Garmin's OS maps were images, I thought they were also vector maps. Interesting. hmm.

bails87

Sorry, didn't intend to confuse. I'd genuinely never seen an OS map referred to as OSM, and OpenStreetMaps refer to themselves as OSM.

Yeah, i'd probably be abit disappointed if I paid a couple of hundred £ for Ordnance Survey maps and got the images at the top of this:

For the OP, the ones at the bottom are the free OpenStreetMaps, The expensive Ordnance Survey ones are on the top, the images on the right hand side show what happens when you zoom in.

handful

Not speaking from much experience as I've only just bought mine, I can offer a little advice. I 'acquired' the OS Discoverer maps, purely for research purposes and find them to be useful on Basecamp to plan routes (although Bikehike also offers these for planning purposes) but on the one occasion so far that I tried to follow a route using OS maps in the Quantocks I found them next to useless. The problem with them is that as stated above they are images and contain far too much detail (for my eyes anyway) to see where you are with any clarity. I would not be happy if I'd paid for them and even less if I'd paid the £199 full price. In my opinion, the best maps I've seen so far for off road are the http://openmtbmap.org/ maps as they route off-road better then OSM (opensource). The sister Velomaps are also very good for roadies.

BTW I have now finished my research and will be deleting the Discoverer maps.

Other comments about the Edge 800 is that I think it's insanely complicated compared to say what a Tom Tom is for a car driver but now I'm beginning to understand it I think it will be the best purchase I've made and will be great for exploring as well as tracking routes, performance etc. I've looked at most planning options and so far have been most impressed with Ridewithgps although bikeroutetoaster is also good.

YeehaaMcgee

bails87 wrote:

OpenStreetMaps refer to themselves as OSM.

But that's OpenStreetMaps
There's also
OpenHikingMaps
OpenMTBMaps
OpenPisteMaps
Which are all part of the same Open maps project, as I understand.

Open street maps is totally useless off-road here. At best, you have a random section of footpath, and some rivers, and the location of a mountain peak or two.
Not only that, but half the village where I live is missing from OpenStreetMap, and most of the main roads round here aren't on it - totally useless
OpenHikingMaps though, are pretty good. There's nowhere near as much detail as an actual, paper, or Bing, OS map (I've never used Garmin's ones), but they generally will have enough for you to navigate to.

If you're going for any of the OpenMaps, and you're using it for mountain biking, get the Hiking Map.

MDobs

To be honest i don't think that those images are very useful comparisons as OS maps do get cluttered in urban areas where they block out the built up bits as well as roads etc. For most MTB use it'll be out in the open country side where your just following a bridleway/byway etc, for this i don't see any problem with those images. Also the reason the OS doesn't scale is because it's already in a fixed scale at 1:50000 and has fixed detail, the OpenStreetMap is not, as shown by the 80m contour line annotation popping up in the image on the right (bottom right corner).

In typical riding I wouldn't zoom in anyway as you loose perspective and stop being able to identify land features and reference points, when i'm going along I identify turns by their position relative to other features not by zooming right in on them on the map.

In the end, even though I've just got an Edge 800, i wouldn't go anywhere truly remote (peaks, beacons, lakes etc) without taking a paper OS map, I certainly wouldn't rely on the 800 as a 'satnav' type device. I already have a map for my home area which comes out with me all the time just for reference incase i feel like branching out from my usual routes. That's on top of using gpsies to figure out routes before going out (i'll also check out the two mentioned above as well now).


To the OPs question whether to go with the OS maps, I would definitely go with them. Whilst you can get alternatives and download sections yourself as advised above this requires planning whilst if you have the mapping already you can be more spontaneous. Gone all the way to Wales to the trail centre but feel like exploring the local natural trails? Done. Also the sheer value of getting it included means that if you did decide you really don't need it you can sell it on and at least break even if not make some money on it.

Of course I'm talking from a position where i got mine for 290 with the mapping so didn't have to make the decision (i wouldn't have bought at full retail at all).

1spaceboo

MDobs wrote:

To be honest i don't think that those images are very useful comparisons as OS maps do get cluttered in urban areas where they block out the built up bits as well as roads etc. For most MTB use it'll be out in the open country side where your just following a bridleway/byway etc, for this i don't see any problem with those images. Also the reason the OS doesn't scale is because it's already in a fixed scale at 1:50000 and has fixed detail, the OpenStreetMap is not, as shown by the 80m contour line annotation popping up in the image on the right (bottom right corner).

In typical riding I wouldn't zoom in anyway as you loose perspective and stop being able to identify land features and reference points, when i'm going along I identify turns by their position relative to other features not by zooming right in on them on the map.

In the end, even though I've just got an Edge 800, i wouldn't go anywhere truly remote (peaks, beacons, lakes etc) without taking a paper OS map, I certainly wouldn't rely on the 800 as a 'satnav' type device. I already have a map for my home area which comes out with me all the time just for reference incase i feel like branching out from my usual routes. That's on top of using gpsies to figure out routes before going out (i'll also check out the two mentioned above as well now).


To the OPs question whether to go with the OS maps, I would definitely go with them. Whilst you can get alternatives and download sections yourself as advised above this requires planning whilst if you have the mapping already you can be more spontaneous. Gone all the way to Wales to the trail centre but feel like exploring the local natural trails? Done. Also the sheer value of getting it included means that if you did decide you really don't need it you can sell it on and at least break even if not make some money on it.

Of course I'm talking from a position where i got mine for 290 with the mapping so didn't have to make the decision (i wouldn't have bought at full retail at all).

Thanks for all the info, it's really useful.
Can I ask where you got it for £290?

MDobs

haha, don't know how useful it really was, mainly personal opinion, but glad you got something from it.

it was in a sale with 60 off from the original £352 on wiggle i think a few months ago so unfortunately until someone has a similar sale i think you'll struggle to get it for that price. like i said, i wouldn't have got it at all if it wasn't for the sale.

felix.london

To the OP - are you sure you need all the stats and extras of the Edge 800? Seems you are just after a mapping & route finding/following solution (like me!). Have a look at the Garmin eTrex 20 - that's the one I've decided to get

To you mapping geeks - What are the Garmin Topo Maps? Are these just images, like the OS maps or what?

1spaceboo

I will need some of the extras, but certainly not all of them. I will be replacing a cateye computer with what ever gps device I decide to get so will need at least what that gives me at the moment.
Not sure what the eTrex 20 offers so will have to have a look.

felix.london

1spaceboo wrote:

I will need some of the extras, but certainly not all of them. I will be replacing a cateye computer with what ever gps device I decide to get so will need at least what that gives me at the moment.
Not sure what the eTrex 20 offers so will have to have a look.

Yeah - I see. You want GPS+cycle computer combined then I reckon the Edge is the one. I'll still be using Endomondo & Strava for stats etc. eTrex seems like it's all about mapping which is good for me.

YeehaaMcgee

Same here, the e-trex looks fine for what I need. I'm not likely of handlebar mounting anything anyway, and I can get my "stats" once it's uploaded to Endomondo or whatever.
I am tempted by the e-trex 30 though, because of it's barometric altimeter. Altitude readings on GPS seem incredibly shonky.
Lots of useful information on here so far.

diy

I have the Edge 800, bought it with the HR and Cadence bundle. I use Open source maps (openMTB open cycle etc.) Its very easy to install, since the sites come with image builder scripts giving different resolution. I use the high res on mine.

The edge itself is a fully loaded, map, navigator, cycle computer, training computer etc. You can record and display data, navigate a route and flick between your many different custom display pages for up to about 12 hours in one hit.

Its a great device, but it is a little buggy, so make sure you upload the latest firmware.

felix.london

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Same here, the e-trex looks fine for what I need. I'm not likely of handlebar mounting anything anyway, and I can get my "stats" once it's uploaded to Endomondo or whatever.
I am tempted by the e-trex 30 though, because of it's barometric altimeter. Altitude readings on GPS seem incredibly shonky.
Lots of useful information on here so far.

I'm using an Android phone so you'd think the altitude readings would come from Google Earth which seem to be fairly accurate but you're right the readings that endo/strava log can be well off

Not too bothered as I've got one of the Casio 'ABC' ProTrek watches that is pretty accurate - although it was very expensive and I'm scared of smashing it to bits on the trail! So looking into a G-Shock GW-9200...when will this ever end??

YeehaaMcgee

felix.london wrote:

I'm using an Android phone so you'd think the altitude readings would come from Google Earth which seem to be fairly accurate but you're right the readings that endo/strava log can be well off

The altitude data only comes from google earth, if you use google earth to create the routes.
Your GPS doesn't know if you're tunneling underground, or flying an aircraft, it just takes a measure of lat, long, and altitude.
And for some reason, altitude seems sketchy on most devices. Which, presumably, is why you get a barometric altimeter option on some models.

felix.london

If the readings do indeed come from Google Earth then why do they vary so wildly on Endo/Strava? Because the GPS signal is so flaky I guess?

YeehaaMcgee

felix.london wrote:

If the readings do indeed come from Google Earth

THEY DON'T

MDobs

just to chuck another option at the OP, have you looked at the Satmap Active 10? when they did some reviews of GPS devices recently in one of the mags this was rated highly for its mapping (it's used like the garmin etrek for hiking a lot), whilst still having all the standard bike specific data capture. might be worth having a look at.

1spaceboo

MDobs wrote:

just to chuck another option at the OP, have you looked at the Satmap Active 10? when they did some reviews of GPS devices recently in one of the mags this was rated highly for its mapping (it's used like the garmin etrek for hiking a lot), whilst still having all the standard bike specific data capture. might be worth having a look at.

I've just had a quick look at that and it appears that the software does not support mac, so I'll have to write that option off!

I think I will go for the edge 800 but still can't decide if I can justify the extra £70 for OS maps, when I may be able to get something just as good for free.

bails87

MDobs wrote:

To the OPs question whether to go with the OS maps, I would definitely go with them. Whilst you can get alternatives and download sections yourself as advised above this requires planning whilst if you have the mapping already you can be more spontaneous. Gone all the way to Wales to the trail centre but feel like exploring the local natural trails? Done.

A bit late to reply, but that just isn't true. You just download the entire UK or UK + Europe opensource map, and use it like you would an OS map. Granted you need a microSD to put it on, but they're dirt cheap compared to the Ordnance survey maps.


And yeehaa: I hadn't actually realised there were different types of Opensource map. :oops: I wonder which ones I downloaded?! I followed the instructions from a MTB site, so I assume the most relevant, but I'll check.

diy

I have open cycle and open mtb maps on a 1gb sd card. They are about 400mb each.

YeehaaMcgee

Hmm. That doesn't seem right.
I downloaded a portion of open hiking maps covering a small area near Dolgellau the other week, probably about 20 miles by 20 miles, and the download was roughly 120 megs.

apreading

I to have the OS style open cycle maps for the whole of the UK and managed to fit them on the SD card that came in the Gamin with the 1:50000 OS Maps on it. I can honestly say that I dont think I will ever use the OS maps again. Have used the Open Cycle Maps round Swinley and Surrey Hills and they are better than the OS maps by miles.

bails87

I can't remember the exact figure, but remember being suprised at how small the maps I downloaded were. That was for the whole of the UK, with contours.