Hit a parked car. Need some legal advice.

cannondale6363

I was at a time trial and was on the way home after it on the bicycle. I went around a bend on a narrow section of the road and wasn't really looking where I was going. Before I knew it I noticed a car in front of me and I tried to swerve but my shoe scraped against the front left of the car. The owners where standing nearby and I stopped. As you can imagine they were quite angry. I looked at the car (a mercedes which the owner repeatedly informed me is "a £30,000 car") and there are two small scrapes. I gave them my name and called my dad who came along in the car. We gave them our details and a contact number and left the scene. The next day (friday) the man telephoned us and said there is a minimum price of £500 to fix a mercedes and that he needed a hire car. I am a member of cycling Ireland and have reported the accident to them. They have forwarded the details onto their insurance company but I am not sure if I will be covered. If I am not covered I need some advice on what I have to pay by law. Do I have to pay for the hire car and does the owner have the right to take it to the mercedes garage to be fixed as I can imagine they will have extortionate prices. I know the accident was my fault so I don't want a flood of comments hurling abuse at me and I am not trying to get away without paying anything. The fact is that I am a 17 year old and I do not have a large amount of money to pay to fix this man's car and my parent's do not have the money either. I want to know what I have to pay legally, not morally. Any advice on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: The car was parked on the left hand side of the road, facing into oncoming traffic on quite a narrow bend. Would this affect the situation in any way?

PeakRider91

Should have just carried on.

cannondale6363

PeakRider91 wrote:

Should have just carried on.

The owners were about 10 yards down the road and noticed me trying to regain balance. I would have only I didn't fancy my chances in a high speed chase against their car. And if I was caught I would have been in more trouble. The way the elderly couple talked to me at the scene, I might as well have rode on!

MattC59

To have the wing resprayed and the door & bonnet blended could well cost £500 I'm afraid. His insurance company probably won't get Mercedes to repair it, they'll have a tame body shop do the work. eg. Someone smacked the wing on my VW, Aviva got a company called Solus to do the work. If he insists that Mercedes are to do the work, refuse to pay (assuming that you can offer a quote to get the work done at a better price).

The guy may well need a hire car, but, his insurance might not cover him for that, it's an optional extra that you can take out and I don't believe that you'll be liable for that, you are only liable for the repairs.

It will be up to the insurance companies to get this sorted. They'll have to get repair quotes, and if you don't have your own insurance and are therefore personally liable, you should be able to see these and offer an alternative (should you be able to find one).

edit: forgot to mention, it cost £350 for a new wing, spraying and blending of the wing, bonnet, and door of my VW, so if it's just a couple of scratches, £500 is way off the mark !

TheEnglishman

I'd get 3 quotes and take the cheapest. I've just had a dent knocked out, filled and resprayed for £150 so I'm thinking they're taking the piss.

Take pictures of the damage and go to a pile of body shops, explain your predicament, put on some little boy lost eyes and ask them how much they think it would cost to have repaired. Armed with these facts keep negotiating as I very much doubt it'll ever get to court if you're seen to be reasonable. Above all keep it civil, even if they get shouty! And keep written records of EVERYTHING. Conversations, phone calls, dates, times everything - make it look like a history GCSE essay!

bigmat

If you told them to get lost, what would they do? Do you have any assets they could enforce a court judgment against? Looking at it from their insurers' point of view, prospects of getting their money back wouldn't seem great so beating that in mind if you were to offer say £150 and say that's all they are getting...

cannondale6363

I've considered that as well BigMat. I would feel quite guilty though. Even if I am covered by insurance there will be a 500 euro excess to pay which works out about £400! What do you mean by assetts? I have savings and the bike. I didn't think they would involve their insurance as that would raise their annual premium and they would loose no claims discount.

bigmat

cannondale6363 wrote:

I've considered that as well BigMat. I would feel quite guilty though. Even if I am covered by insurance there will be a 500 euro excess to pay which works out about £400! What do you mean by assetts? I have savings and the bike. I didn't think they would involve their insurance as that would raise their annual premium and they would loose no claims discount.

I reckon you should make sure they provide reasonable quotes for the work and if they try to take the p**s demanding gold star dealer service, hire cars etc then maybe you should start bring difficult too. Were there any independent witnesses? Have you admitted it was your fault in writing?

cannondale6363

There were no independant witnesses. No cars drove past after the accident. I have not admitted it was my fault in writing.

mouth

Force it through the insurance companies unless it really is financially penal for you. Let them screw their no claims over for being so aggressive. Where the car is parked (unless parked illegally) won't make much difference.

me-109

Consider a quote from a mobile SMART dent repairer. These can fix scratches and smaller dents far easier than getting it into a bodyshop.

It's good that you are trying to be honest and not just 'doing a runner' as some here have suggested. I'm sure all of us who have returned from a shopping trip to find parking dents in our cars can appreciate the owner's upset. How they handle it is another matter.

nferrar

Yeah I hope the people here advising to do a runner come back to a nice dent in their car one day... Not much you can do though OP unless your insurance pays out, you'll need to foot the bill. If it does need a respray then £500 is well within the bounds of reasonable. It's not clear how old the car was but put yourself in their shoes, if you had a shiny new car someone scratched wouldn't you want it sorted properly rather than some mobile repair cheapo thing (unless it really is just the clearcoat...).

slowbike

nferrar wrote:

if you had a shiny new car someone scratched wouldn't you want it sorted properly rather than some mobile repair cheapo thing (unless it really is just the clearcoat...).

I know you're not tarring all mobile repair units with the same brush ... however ... it does sound as though you are rubbishing all the mobile repair outfits.
Find a reputable one and they will do a repair so good it will be invisible to the eye.
Seen a number of boats with HOLES repaired by mobile guys - results are fantastic.

to the OP - recently had a bonnet with 2 small dents taken out and respray, wing mirror sprayed and dent in the bumper sorted out and sprayed - all in was sub £500 - from a small co specialising in body repair..
A small scrape down the side of a Merc shouldn't be huge sums.

bails87

Does your Cycling Ireland membership include 3rd party liability cover like British Cycling does?

If so, they should cover it.

Edit: Ah, that's the €500 excess. I'm going through a claim at the moment, with British Cycling's legal support from a driver's insurance. The insurance company who will be paying out to me will expect me to 'mitigate my losses' that I'm claiming back off them. E.g. I can't ride my bike because it's damaged, so I need an alternative form of transport for getting to work. I've already got a car so using that or getting the bus is 'mitigating my losses'. Hiring a Porsche, or a helicopter wouldn't be. So with the repair, it doesn't have to be done by Mercedes. Likewise if they claim they need a hire car, it doesn't have to be a Merc ML. Ask what their insurance policy says. If they're happy to have an insurance policy that gives them a 1.0L corsa as a courtesy car then I reckon you'd be within your rights to only pay for that, if they even need a hire car (I don't know how long these things take).

navrig

I doubt that, legally, you have much say on who does the repair. I think the car owner is perfectly at liberty to insist that the repair is done to Mercedes standards especially if the car is relatively new. Mercedes will insist on this for their antiperforation warranty to be valid.

The point rasied about your abilioty to pay is legitimate. If you are unable to pay then his only way to redress the situation is to claim on his insurance and let the insurance company pursue you. Given you are under 18 and have limited means of paying for the repair the insureance company is unlikely to spend good money chasing bad.

I am not suggesting that you run away from your legal obligations (clearly you haven't so far) but the law recognises ability to pay in these circumstances and would decide accordingly. I don't think he can pursue your parents instead of you.

Do they have Citizens Advice where you live? If so go and get their formal advice.

migrantwing

That's what you get for being honest, two old cronies in a flash car who were not very nice, or appreciative of the fact that you actually stopped and admitted your fault. You can't win.

I don't know that the fact their car was facing the wrong way will hold any weight. I believe it is illegal to park against the flow of traffic at night (no reflectors at front of car) but the fact that it was in the day (I presume) goes against the matter.

Some good advice in this post. Hope it gets sorted, matey!

MattC59

Another thought: You have no insurance. Insurance policies cover for such eventualities, so he will have to claim and as mentioned, he'll lose his no claims bonus (or protection) for this.

Velonutter

£500 sounds a bit OTT IMHO.

I just had my wing and door resprayed with a few small scratches for £280.

You say he was parked facing traffic on the LHS of the road, many insurers companies would argue on your behalf that he was parked illegally, it might be worth pursuing that route if you think it was a contributing factor.

Legally though your probably are personally liable, but it depends how he wants to pursue it.

Defyand

You might want to try your families household insurance It should have a personal liability section

vroomvroom

Go see your local bobby with some photos of how the car was parked- if he considers it to be badly parked I imagine the driver may choose to drop his claim. Also see

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_069860


Either way offer to settle (no fault accepted) for a sum you deem acceptable I.e £100 ....cars pick up scratches every day and how much damage can a shoe do ??

 His only alternative is he pursue you through the courts or deal through his insurance co, either way a lot of hassle for what I imagine is the equivalent of a bad stone chip.

IShaggy

nferrar wrote:

Yeah I hope the people here advising to do a runner come back to a nice dent in their car one day... Not much you can do though OP unless your insurance pays out, you'll need to foot the bill. If it does need a respray then £500 is well within the bounds of reasonable. It's not clear how old the car was but put yourself in their shoes, if you had a shiny new car someone scratched wouldn't you want it sorted properly rather than some mobile repair cheapo thing (unless it really is just the clearcoat...).

+1

This countries going down the drain because no-one accepts responsibility for their actions anymore. So a big thumbs up to the OP for stopping and taking responsibility. It was the correct thing to do.

And to all those who have replied advising how to get away without paying or that the OP should not have stopped. What would your reaction be if you're sitting at a cafe stop and a car backs over your bike, and then drives off. You'd be outraged and rightly so. You can't have it both ways.

hstiles

There's no point being difficult at this stage. If he puts the claim through his insurance company they will simply pursue you for the costs.

The terms and conditions of an insurance policy oblige the policy holder to minimise costs of a claim. However, he is also entitled to not be unduly inconvenienced. A Mercedes dealership will offer him a courtesy car, guarantee, etc... that a small bodyshop probably won't.

Put it down to a lesson learned.

P_Tucker

IShaggy wrote:

nferrar wrote:

Yeah I hope the people here advising to do a runner come back to a nice dent in their car one day... Not much you can do though OP unless your insurance pays out, you'll need to foot the bill. If it does need a respray then £500 is well within the bounds of reasonable. It's not clear how old the car was but put yourself in their shoes, if you had a shiny new car someone scratched wouldn't you want it sorted properly rather than some mobile repair cheapo thing (unless it really is just the clearcoat...).

+1

This countries going down the drain because no-one accepts responsibility for their actions anymore. So a big thumbs up to the OP for stopping and taking responsibility. It was the correct thing to do.

And to all those who have replied advising how to get away without paying or that the OP should not have stopped. What would your reaction be if you're sitting at a cafe stop and a car backs over your bike, and then drives off. You'd be outraged and rightly so. You can't have it both ways.

Do you read the Daily Mail perchance?

IShaggy

P_Tucker wrote:

IShaggy wrote:

nferrar wrote:

Yeah I hope the people here advising to do a runner come back to a nice dent in their car one day... Not much you can do though OP unless your insurance pays out, you'll need to foot the bill. If it does need a respray then £500 is well within the bounds of reasonable. It's not clear how old the car was but put yourself in their shoes, if you had a shiny new car someone scratched wouldn't you want it sorted properly rather than some mobile repair cheapo thing (unless it really is just the clearcoat...).

+1

This countries going down the drain because no-one accepts responsibility for their actions anymore. So a big thumbs up to the OP for stopping and taking responsibility. It was the correct thing to do.

And to all those who have replied advising how to get away without paying or that the OP should not have stopped. What would your reaction be if you're sitting at a cafe stop and a car backs over your bike, and then drives off. You'd be outraged and rightly so. You can't have it both ways.

Do you read the Daily Mail perchance?

Fair comment, the going down the drain bit was a bit OTT I admit, but any of what I said you disagree with?

BruceG

Guys
He is in Ireland, so things may be a little different, please ensure you read the posts properly before giving potentially incorrect and damaging advice.

OP COntact the people at Cycling Ireland who you have your membership with and take advice from them.

jmcc500

Navrig wrote:

I doubt that, legally, you have much say on who does the repair. I think the car owner is perfectly at liberty to insist that the repair is done to Mercedes standards especially if the car is relatively new. Mercedes will insist on this for their antiperforation warranty to be valid.

I wouldn't be so sure on this point. I believe, though happy to be proven wrong, that this is not a legal way to enforce a warranty. The repair needs to be to a professional standard, and Mercedes anti perforation warranty will insist the car is regularly checked by a franchised dealer, but I don't believe they can insist it be repaired by a franchised dealer. Round our way Mercedes and Porsche use a local bodyshop for repairs rather than having their own facilities anyway!

niblue

Sounds like you were 100% at fault and given £500 sounds like a reasonable price for the repair you should pay up and learn to take more care in the future.

navrig

jmcc500 wrote:

Navrig wrote:

I doubt that, legally, you have much say on who does the repair. I think the car owner is perfectly at liberty to insist that the repair is done to Mercedes standards especially if the car is relatively new. Mercedes will insist on this for their antiperforation warranty to be valid.

I wouldn't be so sure on this point. I believe, though happy to be proven wrong, that this is not a legal way to enforce a warranty. The repair needs to be to a professional standard, and Mercedes anti perforation warranty will insist the car is regularly checked by a franchised dealer, but I don't believe they can insist it be repaired by a franchised dealer. Round our way Mercedes and Porsche use a local bodyshop for repairs rather than having their own facilities anyway!

I partially agree with you which is why I said to "Mercedes standards" and not "Mercedes franchise" however it is not about legally enforceable. The OP hit a car. The car owner, as a result, is disadvantaged and therefore is perfectly entitled to insist that the disadvantage is corrected to return him to his original condition which, if this includes a valid anti-perforation warranty, he can expect a suitable repair to maintain that warranty.

I know the guy responsible for Bentley cars paint quality and his job is to make sure that every franchise has the capability of producing repairs and re-sprays which meet Bentley factory standards. The investment each franchise has to make is scarey but if they don't....... they could lose the franchise.