Why do some sportive riders think it`s OK to flout traffic ?

JamesB

Today, Ludlow; traffic lights at top of steep hill are RED = STOP.

So why do 10-15 riders in the Shropshire Hills Sportive think it is OK to pass by the 3 to 4 waiting cars, and me as a cyclist, riding eitehr side of cars including on pavement and calmly ride straight thro` red light? :shock: :shock:

Do they gain extra seconds, so important as it is not a race? Do they think it reflects well on them and cyclists in general? I`d really like to know :? :?

Can the organisers (whom I`ve emailed about this) do anything in general, or do we all get branded as ignorant and arrogant cyclists above normal traffic laws in UK?

symo

It is a pain in the ass. Witnessed riders barely looking for traffic in Moretenhampstead two weeks ago. Also while driving a masseur to the princetown food stop riders were blocking the road on the steep climbs.

It is this sort of behaviour that makes the police think that the events are more trouble than they are worth.

Bobbinogs

Why do some people think it's OK to flout traffic laws...

JamesB

Why do some people think it's OK to flout traffic laws...

yes agree with correction, it was the riders in particular here though

nickwill

The thing is that it isn't just sportive riders who flout traffic regulations. It's club cyclists, time triallists, commuters, motorists, motorcyclists, pedestrians etc, etc......

jgsi

They've all got numbers on the front of their bikes yes..?
Take a note and dock them 10 minutes per infringement on these meaningful sportive gold standard times.... :?

bompington

Because they're sportive riders, and that makes them naturally inferior to Real Cyclists. Of course.

I think I've got the drift of the thread right? :roll:

jgsi

yeah, if you like... it is a bit feckin dick to ride thru a red light tho aint it..?
sportive or not and I'm not getting at you as a sportive fan or making such a blatant distinction between types of cyclist
... I'm sure you must get peed off by the some of the antics you see.. and that includes me as I do a couple of these rides each year

JamesB

I think I've got the drift of the thread right?

NO; It has nothing to do with being sportive riders per se, of which I am one as well as a `real cyclist`.

My point was how stupid 1. as general road behaviour, 2. they had clearly fixed labels on them indicating that they were riding the sportive--ie number tags & sportive name.

At a time when maybe sportives are being more closely scrutinised such actions add nothing to the image of sportives or cycling as a whole.

Hopefully this year GB cycling as a whole will get a great boost thro` TdeF and Olympics success , which may raise cycling profile as an area for spend, eg better facilities. Poor road manners could be used by critics to demean all cyclists.

Rodrego Hernandez

More cyclists on a road system that is not used to a large volume of cyclists is a recipe for disaster. All road users disobey the traffic laws in one way or another. The more of those road users that start using bikes and the number of bike riders flouting rules will increase.

More people cycling isn't necessarily a good thing.

bigmat

Were they doing anything dangerous? Putting themselves or others at risk? If not, I'd just calm down - they should have stopped, they didn't, end of story. If, on the other hand, they were causing traffic to stop / swerve around them, or intimidating pedestrians, or putting themselves at risk, then throw the book at them.

ugo.santalucia

While some of the behaviour seen in sportives deserve censorship, I hope I don't live to see the day bicycles will have to strictly obey the full highway code... the idea of being stuck in traffic jams, with no option of dodging them is frightening and takes away the pleasure of riding a bike in congested areas.

I would argue that the all concept of timed sportives is flawed. In the continent, where they know a thing or two about cycling events and with a few notable exceptions, only competitive sportives are timed, the non competitive events are not timed, as it should be.
In the UK sportives are non competitive, hence no timing needed.

Teddy Westside

BigMat wrote:

Were they doing anything dangerous? Putting themselves or others at risk? If not, I'd just calm down - they should have stopped, they didn't, end of story.

Unfortunately, you dismiss the bigger issue. Motorists (and anti-cycling types in general) need little enough encouragement to treat cyclists as 3rd class citizens. Riding through the red lights gives all cyclists a bad name in the eyes of who witnessed it and we can only guess how many people they told about the incident, further perpetrating the myth we all flout the law at every opportunity. You only need to read any online discussion abut cycling in the non cycling media (e.g. newspaper websites) to see the "one description fits all" image of cyclists which is rife among the more vocal motorists.

I can only assume (rightly or wrongly) from your comment that you yourself are quite happy to obey the rules when you feel like it and so you help fuel the flames of embitterment between cyclists and other road users.

It's very tempting on a sportive to just go through red lights when it looks safe to do so but it isn't worth it for the potential danger or the bad feeling it engenders, let alone the possible legal action that it could result in.

ugo.santalucia

Teddy Westside wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Were they doing anything dangerous? Putting themselves or others at risk? If not, I'd just calm down - they should have stopped, they didn't, end of story.

Unfortunately, you dismiss the bigger issue. Motorists (and anti-cycling types in general) need little enough encouragement to treat cyclists as 3rd class citizens. Riding through the red lights gives all cyclists a bad name in the eyes of who witnessed it and we can only guess how many people they told about the incident, further perpetrating the myth we all flout the law at every opportunity. You only need to read any online discussion abut cycling in the non cycling media (e.g. newspaper websites) to see the "one description fits all" image of cyclists which is rife among the more vocal motorists.

I can only assume (rightly or wrongly) from your comment that you yourself are quite happy to obey the rules when you feel like it and so you help fuel the flames of embitterment between cyclists and other road users.

It's very tempting on a sportive to just go through red lights when it looks safe to do so but it isn't worth it for the potential danger or the bad feeling it engenders, let alone the possible legal action that it could result in.

Yes, I agree... however, cyclists jump red light all over the world, it's not a british thing... in Italy nobody cares, same in France or Belgium, but here motorists get angry as they would like to do the same, when it makes sense to do so (e.g. pedestrian crossings deserted) but they are scared of getting points on their licence, so they get frustrated if somebody is "allowed" to do it.
The problem is frustration... why should they care if a cyclist jump a light when it is perfectly safe to do so? They should just relax and keep listening to the radio full on, talking on the phone, checking their i-phones and makeup and doing all those things they shouldn't do but they feel confident to do as it's less likely to get points.

Nobody is a saint, motorist or cyclist... this is neither an ideal world nor Switzerland, common sense should prevail.

JamesB

Unfortunately, you dismiss the bigger issue. Motorists (and anti-cycling types in general) need little enough encouragement to treat cyclists as 3rd class citizens. Riding through the red lights gives all cyclists a bad name in the eyes of who witnessed it and we can only guess how many people they told about the incident, further perpetrating the myth we all flout the law at every opportunity. You only need to read any online discussion abut cycling in the non cycling media (e.g. newspaper websites) to see the "one description fits all" image of cyclists which is rife among the more vocal motorists.

thanks for that , that is exactly the point I was aiming to make, not getting wound up / angry about it, but pointing out the level of negative anti-cyclist feelings these guys may have stirred up by their behaviour

ugo.santalucia

JamesB wrote:

Unfortunately, you dismiss the bigger issue. Motorists (and anti-cycling types in general) need little enough encouragement to treat cyclists as 3rd class citizens. Riding through the red lights gives all cyclists a bad name in the eyes of who witnessed it and we can only guess how many people they told about the incident, further perpetrating the myth we all flout the law at every opportunity. You only need to read any online discussion abut cycling in the non cycling media (e.g. newspaper websites) to see the "one description fits all" image of cyclists which is rife among the more vocal motorists.

thanks for that , that is exactly the point I was aiming to make, not getting wound up / angry about it, but pointing out the level of negative anti-cyclist feelings these guys may have stirred up by their behaviour

Hi James,

Should our role as cyclists be that of keeping motorists quiet and content by behaving according to the rules, in fear of us being banned from the roads or worse? I don't think so... the wind has changed a long time ago and it is government policy to punish and charge motorists whenever possible... they don't have much negotiating power, have to pay lots of money for fuel, insurance and even just to get on the roads or park the car... as we get poorer, the days of widespread motorisation are counted.

I am a cyclist and a motorist and I don't mind the cyclist or the motorcyclist squeezing in, jumping the queue etc... good for him if he can, when I am on two wheels I do the same

phreak

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Teddy Westside wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Were they doing anything dangerous? Putting themselves or others at risk? If not, I'd just calm down - they should have stopped, they didn't, end of story.

Unfortunately, you dismiss the bigger issue. Motorists (and anti-cycling types in general) need little enough encouragement to treat cyclists as 3rd class citizens. Riding through the red lights gives all cyclists a bad name in the eyes of who witnessed it and we can only guess how many people they told about the incident, further perpetrating the myth we all flout the law at every opportunity. You only need to read any online discussion abut cycling in the non cycling media (e.g. newspaper websites) to see the "one description fits all" image of cyclists which is rife among the more vocal motorists.

I can only assume (rightly or wrongly) from your comment that you yourself are quite happy to obey the rules when you feel like it and so you help fuel the flames of embitterment between cyclists and other road users.

It's very tempting on a sportive to just go through red lights when it looks safe to do so but it isn't worth it for the potential danger or the bad feeling it engenders, let alone the possible legal action that it could result in.

Yes, I agree... however, cyclists jump red light all over the world, it's not a british thing... in Italy nobody cares, same in France or Belgium, but here motorists get angry as they would like to do the same, when it makes sense to do so (e.g. pedestrian crossings deserted) but they are scared of getting points on their licence, so they get frustrated if somebody is "allowed" to do it.
The problem is frustration... why should they care if a cyclist jump a light when it is perfectly safe to do so? They should just relax and keep listening to the radio full on, talking on the phone, checking their i-phones and makeup and doing all those things they shouldn't do but they feel confident to do as it's less likely to get points.

Nobody is a saint, motorist or cyclist... this is neither an ideal world nor Switzerland, common sense should prevail.

Quite. No one bats an eyelid if a pedestrian crosses a crossing on a red man if it's safe to do so. We're all adults here, if someone's behaviour isn't harming you then leave them to it.

Gazzaputt

In reply to your question it's because there are w*nkers in all walks of life it just seems cycling is attracting a bigger share these days.