Wheels - What's going on?

thescouselander

I was thinking about getting a better wheel set for my Giant Defy as by all accounts the wheels are supposed to be quite heavy. I had opportunity to inspect some Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels on a bike which the Mrs borrowed but when I removed the back wheels from both bikes there was no appreciable difference in weight.

To find out for certain I decided to weigh both rear wheels (complete with cassette tyres and skewers etc) on the kitchen scales with the following results:

Giant Standard rear wheel 1850g
Fulcrum Racing 5 rear wheel 1700g

I belive a good bit of the weight difference can be accounted for by the diffrent tyres on each wheel. My wheel had a Conti Gatorskin while the Fulcrum wheel has a Schwalbe Ultremo ZX which is a good 80g lighter.

I was expecting a much bigger difference than this. Does this mean I should just stick with what I've got or am I missing something. Also are there any lighter wheels I can buy for less than £200?

ianbar

I'm certainly no expert but a lot of the weight regarding wheels is having lighter rims more than the overall wheel weight, thus your able to accelerate faster etc. i changed the standard wheels on my caad8 to magic aksium wheels and there definitely better, wether so much lighter i don't know but i set new bests on strava on my first ride so must be better, plus it just rides better.

thescouselander

Interresting. My Giant wheels have 32 spokes and the Fulcrums only have 20 odd so this suggests to me the rims on the Giant wheels might actually be lighter. Perhaps I'll swap the wheels over and see if I can feel any difference while on the bike.

estampida

wheel feel (rhyming slang ahoy)

so the further away from the central axis of rotation (axle) the weight is the slower the wheel will accelerate (the weight has a greater lever arm), steering is not as snappy as well. So they could weigh the same but the distribution of that material will give better feel.

so 32 spokes, 32 brass nipples on rim, 32 s/s eyelets on rim......
20 spoke, 20 alloy / brass nipples, 20 eyelets

so the rim probably weighs less, the spokes and nipples - less, but i'm guessing the hubs are more (maybe the free-hub has a lot going on inside it or the cartridge bearings are massive).

are you using a cassette with an alloy spider?

and you could always check under the rim tape in case there something funny in there

for nice wheels, spend the money on hubs as you will change rims, the hubs will last longer than the bike they are on....

Pross

Claimed weight on a pair of Racing 5s is around 1750g (rear 985g). They are not a particularly lightweight wheelset but about par in the £200 market. It could be that a chunk of the weight difference is from different cassettes. If you go up to £300 you can get something significantly lighter.

Mikey23

I too have a giant defy with supposed 'heavy wheels'. I have read quite a lot of stuff about different wheel sets and whether or not it is worth upgrading. I have to admit that I am not fully convinced that they make any appreciable difference and plan to stick with what I have. Quite honestly, I have better things to spend my money on. I suppose it depends a lot on how competitive you are and whether shaving seconds are important to you in your riding. I have had to replace one tyre and have a better one which seems to reduce rolling resistance and when I need to I will change the other.

thescouselander

Pross wrote:

Claimed weight on a pair of Racing 5s is around 1750g (rear 985g). They are not a particularly lightweight wheelset but about par in the £200 market. It could be that a chunk of the weight difference is from different cassettes. If you go up to £300 you can get something significantly lighter.

Yeah, I reckon the cassettes are skewing things a little as my wheel has a 9 speed and the other a 10 speed cassette. I checked the front wheels and the difference is more noticeable there at 250g. Even so taking the tyres into account its probably only 150g difference in reality. Perhaps my £200 would be better spent on a Garmin.

Mikey23

That would be my decision. I got a garmin edge 500 and it has done more for my cycling than a pair of mega bucks road wheels

Defyand

+ 1 for Mickey23.

thescouselander

Looks like a Garmin it is then.

Wirral_paul

A Garmin wont help you go faster (I have an 800). As said, Fulcrum 5's are hardly a lightweight wheelset and the point about rim weight above is very significant - 100g here will make a noticeable difference to the feel of your bike. Dont forget also - you only looked at one wheel and were not comparing anywhere near like for like!

Buy neither and wait until you have £300 or so - something like Shimano RS80's will be a big step up

thescouselander

Wirral_Paul wrote:

A Garmin wont help you go faster (I have an 800). As said, Fulcrum 5's are hardly a lightweight wheelset and the point about rim weight above is very significant - 100g here will make a noticeable difference to the feel of your bike. Dont forget also - you only looked at one wheel and were not comparing anywhere near like for like!

Buy neither and wait until you have £300 or so - something like Shimano RS80's will be a big step up

Interestingly I went out on the borrowed bike yesterday and to be honest it didn't feel any faster. I did a few strava segments near to my house and I wasn't any faster than usual. In fact I was a bit slower but that might have been due to the wind.

I don't think a £200 wheel set is going to provide enough difference to make it worth it for me - I just couldnt tell. I'm not even convinced a £300 wheel set is going to make enough difference to justify the cost so at this stage so I guess new wheels are off the cards - I'll just save for a new bike I think.

Anyway, I've ordered a garmin 500 now, I'm pretty sure it will be useful.

Alibran

I see you've already decided what you're going to spend your money on, but for future reference, I think wheels can make a big difference for relatively little cost.

I replaced my entry level Trek recently. The Trek had the stock wheels - Alex rims, unbranded hubs and 32 spokes. The new bike has handbuilts that I built myself using Shimano 105 hubs, DT competition spokes, and DT Swiss RR465 rims (32 spokes). The total cost for the wheels was under £200 (would have been about £225, I think, but I got 50% discount on the rims).

The overall bike weight is 700g more than the old bike (I didn't weigh the wheels separately), but I think this is down to a steel frame replacing aluminium and a megarange cassette replacing a normal road cassette. Despite the extra weight, I've noticed a significant difference in ease of climbing, and this is reflected in my Strava segment times, and the wheels also seem to spin up to speed much more easily. The tyres and tubes are the same as I had on my old wheels. I was surprised, to be honest, because I hadn't expected the wheels to make that much difference.

So, I'm sure you'll enjoy your Garmin - I love mine - but for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread, wheels can make a difference if you choose the right wheels. (And I know I saved money by building my own wheels, but it doesn't cost that much to get a wheelbuilder to do it for you if you're not confident to have a go yourself.)

thescouselander

I've no doubt wheels can make a difference - especially when it comes to aero benefits. On the weight issue I think you'd have to knock off an awful lot of weight before you could feel the difference - that is certainly what my experience this weekend seems to suggest anyway.

Alibran

thescouselander wrote:

On the weight issue I think you'd have to knock off an awful lot of weight before you could feel the difference - that is certainly what my experience this weekend seems to suggest anyway.

That was part of my point really - that the overall weight of the bike is heavier, but I'm still faster on the climbs despite that.

cycleclinic

The claimed weight is for a naked wheel, no rim tape, no skewers, no tubes, no tyre e.t.c. The fulrums are lighter beause of a lighter rim, less spokes lighter hubs. Pik whih one as I have never taken apart a fulcrum to weight each part.

NITR8s

Dont forget to take into account the weight of the innertube as well, the differnce between a cheap generic inner tube to a decent one can be quite suprising.

Pross

thescouselander wrote:

I've no doubt wheels can make a difference - especially when it comes to aero benefits. On the weight issue I think you'd have to knock off an awful lot of weight before you could feel the difference - that is certainly what my experience this weekend seems to suggest anyway.

I've always been a sceptic when it comes to the claims of feeling the benefits from a change of equipment. Even moving from a steel frame to a carbon didn't feel that much different to me. However, when I got my Prolites (with Pro Race 3s and lightweight tubes) which saved about 500g on my previous R500 / Aksium Race wheel combo I could feel the difference from the first turn of the pedals. Best £300 or so I've spent on cycling kit.

cycleclinic

I am faster on my bike this week than 1 month ago on the same wheels/bike just because I have got fitter, and thats with a newly fitted rack and saddle bag. I recomend getting fitter to improve speed.

There will be a small gain by reduing wheel weight. But it only make sense if the weight is lost at the rim. Rotating mass lost has a much bigger affect on performance than non roating mass lost or mass lost at the hub (as they are small diameter). However the gains to be had are still relatively small. Ever wondered why all those whippets tend to those 50-65kg riders who have the same power output as I do but whole lot less mass.

Tyres and tubes are the cheapest and easiest way to loose weight. For example Conti GP4000s and Race 28 super onic tubes weigh in at 260g that is less than many tyres by themselves. Also certain tyres roll better than others, that makes a bigger difference than you might think. I know when I ride my old Alan with tubs, that thing rolls and feels easier to get up to speed and keep it there.

If you have a cheap Vittoria tyres and generic tubes then the combined weight of those would be 400g+.