Binning my SPD's

macleod113

Right, thats it! i just cant engage in the little swines! even heading downhil at some lights i struggle to clip in. uphill is a joke. i'm just waiting to be run over the rate i'm going.

i've just bought some Crank Brothers Candy pedals in the hope its a 'you cant miss' style of clipping in.

does anyone else curse traditional road clipless....?

rant over

MichaelW

MacLeod113 wrote:

traditional road clipless....?

Now I know for sure that I'm getting old.

ricklilley

I sometimes struggle clipping in my 2nd foot when setting off, and it doesn't seem to matter which foot it is. i have SPD-SL 540's. I'm getting quite good at pedalling with one leg, to get moving with enough momentum , to be able coast the bike while i get it.

I've heard that some of the Look pedals are far easier to engage, so might consider upgrading to some of them later.

flasher

MacLeod113 wrote:

does anyone else curse traditional road clipless....?

It's you, 100's of thousands of pairs have probably been sold, and BTW. SPD's aren't traditional 'road' clipless

Barteos

Like most of road cycling gear road shoes/pedals have been designed for (professional) racing and don't make much sense from the practical point of view.

Most of people buy them because that what they've been told by their club mate / neighbour / magazine writers and that's what one supposed to have on a road bike.

There is NO difference in a BS "power transfer" :roll: or comfort if you shoes are stiff enough.

Speedplay design is the best proof that you don't need the large support area or fixed position for the best "performance"

macleod113

Pardon my faux pas.
i meant the shimano/look type clipless.
apologies for confusion, i am only a beginner after all

slowbike

Don't worry about it - some of us use SPD's on our road bikes anyway ...
I find them and the shoes, comfortable and I can still walk around when I get off ... better than waddling like a penguin!

Garryboy

I've just moved from SPD to speedplay Frogs - I chose Frogs because I like to be able to walk, if needed, in my shoes and not look like a duck on ice.

Liking them so far, particulalry the free, non-centering, float - although I'm not totally used to clipping in with them yet as the motion required is slightly different to SPD.

Worth a look

ALaPlage

Barteos wrote:

Like most of road cycling gear road shoes/pedals have been designed for (professional) racing and don't make much sense from the practical point of view.

Most of people buy them because that what they've been told by their club mate / neighbour / magazine writers and that's what one supposed to have on a road bike.

There is NO difference in a BS "power transfer" :roll: or comfort if you shoes are stiff enough.

Speedplay design is the best proof that you don't need the large support area or fixed position for the best "performance"

So if there are no gains, marginal or otherwise why would even professional cyclists be bothered to use them?

My experience with Look pedals and cleats is they are easy to clip in and out of and definetly feel more secure pedalling under power than on standard pedals.

Barteos

ALaPlage wrote:

Barteos wrote:

Like most of road cycling gear road shoes/pedals have been designed for (professional) racing and don't make much sense from the practical point of view.

Most of people buy them because that what they've been told by their club mate / neighbour / magazine writers and that's what one supposed to have on a road bike.

There is NO difference in a BS "power transfer" :roll: or comfort if you shoes are stiff enough.

Speedplay design is the best proof that you don't need the large support area or fixed position for the best "performance"

So if there are no gains, marginal or otherwise why would even professional cyclists be bothered to use them?

My experience with Look pedals and cleats is they are easy to clip in and out of and definetly feel more secure pedalling under power than on standard pedals.

Little things that decide about the pro career are completely irrelevant and undetectable for amateurs (from performance point of view) unless someone suffers some sort of low mileage performance related OCD or is completely brainwashed by nonsense that one can read in cycling mags.

Advantages of carbon, frame stiffness, frame compliance, inertia, power transfer... those things don't make a relevant difference to most of us yet you can find some deluded individuals claiming hat their new wheels apparently make them 1-2 mph faster.

Besides, pros and their teams aren't gods and can be as wrong as the rest of us mortals. E.g. it took ages for the teams to realize the performance benefits of wider tyres run slightly lower pressure (something well known for a few years). From 19mm through 23mm tyres are getting wider and 25mm will be becoming a norm pretty soon (all this time the laws of physics remained unchanged).

How could the pros be so wrong?

As I stated before most of riders/consumers don't make well informed buying decisions but they just copy their cycling buddies without questioning anything.

ForumNewbie

Are you are using SPD-SL one-sided road pedals?

I use SPD double-sided mountain bike pedals. They are really easy to clip into. If you are are using these and you are having problems clipping-in, you should try moving your cleats to a different position on your shoes, which may make clipping in easier.

adm1

When I started out road biking, I used my Crank Brothers Egg Beater pedals. They are pretty much foolproof to clip into, even if it's muddy. They're also pretty light. Coupled with a good stiff shoe, they work really well on a road bike. They don't look proper "roadie" though.

I only changed as I got a pair of SPD-SL shoes and pedal for a song and didn't want to have to swap the pedals between the MTB and road bike.

rdt

Barteos wrote:

Little things that decide about the pro career are completely irrelevant and undetectable for amateurs (from performance point of view) unless someone suffers some sort of low mileage performance related OCD or is completely brainwashed by nonsense that one can read in cycling mags.

Advantages of carbon, frame stiffness, frame compliance, inertia, power transfer... those things don't make a relevant difference to most of us yet you can find some deluded individuals claiming hat their new wheels apparently make them 1-2 mph faster.

Besides, pros and their teams aren't gods and can be as wrong as the rest of us mortals. E.g. it took ages for the teams to realize the performance benefits of wider tyres run slightly lower pressure (something well known for a few years). From 19mm through 23mm tyres are getting wider and 25mm will be becoming a norm pretty soon (all this time the laws of physics remained unchanged).

How could the pros be so wrong?

As I stated before most of riders/consumers don't make well informed buying decisions but they just copy their cycling buddies without questioning anything.

Spot on.

rdt

adm1 wrote:

When I started out road biking, I used my Crank Brothers Egg Beater pedals. They are pretty much foolproof to clip into, even if it's muddy. They're also pretty light. Coupled with a good stiff shoe, they work really well on a road bike. They don't look proper "roadie" though.

I only changed as I got a pair of SPD-SL shoes and pedal for a song and didn't want to have to swap the pedals between the MTB and road bike.

I did the opposite, switching from SPD-SL to Crank Brothers pedals years ago: first the road-specific Quattro, and when they stopped making themmoved to Candy (still got Quattros on my turbo bike). Used with carbon-soled recessed cleat shoes they work great and are ultimately practical compared to most road pedal systems, since you get double-sided pedal entry, can walk safely in your shoes and the cleats (being recessed) last for eons. Don't look out of place on the bike IMO.

jonny_trousers

Meh, use whatever you like, but my SPD SLs are infinitely more comfortable for rides where a lot of force is being put through the pedal stroke than my SPDs. That said, my double-sided SPDs are much more practical for the stop/start of the commute as well as the shoes I use with them being easier to walk in.

There's more to pedal choice than wanting-to-look-like-the-pros. Oh, and Speedplays do have a large platform; it's just encompassed in the cleat.

ineedalager

I tried Look Delta pedals and cleats for 3 months I got fed up looking like an idiot trying to clip in when setting off from traffic lights and roundabouts amd went back to my SPD M520 MTB pedals and cleats that I used for 4 years now, much better for me!

alihisgreat

Barteos wrote:

Like most of road cycling gear road shoes/pedals have been designed for (professional) racing and don't make much sense from the practical point of view.

Most of people buy them because that what they've been told by their club mate / neighbour / magazine writers and that's what one supposed to have on a road bike.

There is NO difference in a BS "power transfer" :roll: or comfort if you shoes are stiff enough.

Speedplay design is the best proof that you don't need the large support area or fixed position for the best "performance"

The speedplay cleat has a big contact patch?




note how big the cleat is compared to shimano/look type cleats.

Looks very much like a similiar contact patch to me?

It doesn't matter how big the pedal is... its the area of the cleat in contact with the shoe that provides the extra comfort as it distributes the pressure over a larger area.

rdt

This old chestnut...

With carbon-soled recessed-cleat shoes, there's no flex between cleat and shoe. So the only remaining possible disadvantage in alleged "power transfer" would be because the cleat/pedal interface might allow some sort of movement due to "looseness" in the way they interface. Road pedal systems, like those pictured by alihisgreat address this with wide contact points between cleat and pedal, which prevents "roll" between shoe and pedal. Recessed cleat systems do similar: but instead of using a large cleat/pedal contact area, they use a large shoe-tread/pedal body contact area to achieve the same thing. Or, if you use SPDs with road shoes you can get plastic pontoons to perform the same role (similar to Crank Brother's Quattro plastic cleat surrounds)

I've used top-end S-Works road shoes with SPD-SL pedals, and top-end carbon-soled Mavic recessed-cleat shoes with Crank Brothers pedals, and there's no discernible difference in terms of so-called "power transfer". Which is unsurprising if you look at the mechanics of what's happening, rather than listening to marketing myths. It seems to me that with recessed-cleat systems the only loss of power (compared to the road pedal systems) might arise from the shoe tread/pedal body interface, either because they don't seat quite so closely together (and hence allow movement leading to heat loss) or because the tread material is softer (and hence compresses/expands leading to heat loss).

The main difference in feel arises from the additional float (think "yaw" axis) that the Crank Brothers pedals provide, similar to (but less than) Speedplays as I understand it. There'll be some tiny energy losses in this float, as springs are compresses, etc, but unless you're Cav sprinting on the Champs Elysée it's all BS.

Of course, if someone wants to get out some peer-reviewed lab results that prove otherwise, and can show there are material differences that might impact the performance of punters like us (as opposed to just differences in feel), I'm all ears...

rolf_f

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Looks very much like a similiar contact patch to me?

It doesn't matter how big the pedal is... its the area of the cleat in contact with the shoe that provides the extra comfort as it distributes the pressure over a larger area.

Looks a lot smaller to me - sorry! And it isn't that simple to say that it is simply the area of cleat in contact with the shoe that determines the feel. A single, fairly small point of contact will feel less comfortable than 3 smaller contact points distributed over a larger area.

But then I think Speedplays are just a very expensive way to buy into the M520 experience

captain_kelly

I'm in the Speedplay Zero camp I'm afraid, I tried out lots of different ones before settling. The double sided entry and just stepping on to them really did swing it for me. Getting out is easy too, after a bit of fettling to find the right amount of float for you, it's possible to really tailor them so they are 'just so'

I have fallen over a couple of times at junctions but that's just the way it goes, no-ones perfect!

However after all of that, it really is down to personal choice.

Hoopdriver

Barteos wrote:

ALaPlage wrote:

Barteos wrote:

Like most of road cycling gear road shoes/pedals have been designed for (professional) racing and don't make much sense from the practical point of view.

Most of people buy them because that what they've been told by their club mate / neighbour / magazine writers and that's what one supposed to have on a road bike.

There is NO difference in a BS "power transfer" :roll: or comfort if you shoes are stiff enough.

Speedplay design is the best proof that you don't need the large support area or fixed position for the best "performance"

So if there are no gains, marginal or otherwise why would even professional cyclists be bothered to use them?

My experience with Look pedals and cleats is they are easy to clip in and out of and definetly feel more secure pedalling under power than on standard pedals.

Little things that decide about the pro career are completely irrelevant and undetectable for amateurs (from performance point of view) unless someone suffers some sort of low mileage performance related OCD or is completely brainwashed by nonsense that one can read in cycling mags.

Advantages of carbon, frame stiffness, frame compliance, inertia, power transfer... those things don't make a relevant difference to most of us yet you can find some deluded individuals claiming hat their new wheels apparently make them 1-2 mph faster.

Besides, pros and their teams aren't gods and can be as wrong as the rest of us mortals. E.g. it took ages for the teams to realize the performance benefits of wider tyres run slightly lower pressure (something well known for a few years). From 19mm through 23mm tyres are getting wider and 25mm will be becoming a norm pretty soon (all this time the laws of physics remained unchanged).

How could the pros be so wrong?

As I stated before most of riders/consumers don't make well informed buying decisions but they just copy their cycling buddies without questioning anything.

Very well put.

springtide9

Re SPD's vs SPD-SL
The main difference between the two:
- SPD's are designed for MTBs and hence the lower end SPD shoes tend not to be designed very stiff as there are occasional you might be carrying your bike.
- SPD-SL's are much more secure when clipped in. With SPD's even when pretty tight can pop out if you are 'heavy handed'. Not usually a problem, but I had occasions when being a bit enthusiastic sprinting out of the saddle and had one of the cleats pop out (which almost ended in a crash).

In terms of clipping in and out, it's just practice. I grew up with Scott MTB clipless in the '90s, they were a real challenge. It's just practice so just keep at it... and remember to plan stops etc.
One other thing I used to find with SPDs on the MTB was that I would struggle to clip if the cleat was in the 'wrong' position.

benhben

I had trouble clipping in Shimano 105 pedals, especially when setting off on a uphill slope. Bought some Exaustar look replica pedals off Ebay. Make life much easier and clipping in is much easier.

You could also try adjusting the release tension with an alan key

rdt

springtide9 wrote:

Re SPD's vs SPD-SL
The main difference between the two:
- SPD's are designed for MTBs and hence the lower end SPD shoes tend not to be designed very stiff as there are occasional you might be carrying your bike.
- SPD-SL's are much more secure when clipped in. With SPD's even when pretty tight can pop out if you are 'heavy handed'. Not usually a problem, but I had occasions when being a bit enthusiastic sprinting out of the saddle and had one of the cleats pop out (which almost ended in a crash).

Only fair to put the counter arguments:
- High-end carbon-soled MTB shoes, although treaded, have ultra-stiff soles, so no hot-spots on all-day rides or power loss from flexing soles;
- There are other recessed cleat systems besides SPD; I've used Crank Brothers for 6 years and never once clipped out unintentionally, so no less secure than SPD-SL in my own experience.

The only negative I can see is the modest extra weight of the MTB shoe vs. road shoe. Balanced against the practicality positives of safer walking in a treaded shoe (but not great - since the carbon-soled shoes don't really flex) and double-sided pedal entry. Speedplays address the latter issue also.

buzzwold

Arrrggggh.

At the risk of being hated by everyone, this is yet another thread that's degenerated into a mine is better than/you don't know what you're talking about debate. Consequently it will run and run.

We don't all wear the same clothes or drive the same car.

Ultimately go with what you feel comfortable with because that's what's going to make your rides enjoyable. You don't have to dress up, you don't have to have the "right" gear. You just have to like cycling. Have fun and be happy.

p.s. I expect that the debate will continue despite my input.

rdt

Mikey23

Me likes this

alihisgreat

rdt wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Re SPD's vs SPD-SL
The main difference between the two:
- SPD's are designed for MTBs and hence the lower end SPD shoes tend not to be designed very stiff as there are occasional you might be carrying your bike.
- SPD-SL's are much more secure when clipped in. With SPD's even when pretty tight can pop out if you are 'heavy handed'. Not usually a problem, but I had occasions when being a bit enthusiastic sprinting out of the saddle and had one of the cleats pop out (which almost ended in a crash).

Only fair to put the counter arguments:
- High-end carbon-soled MTB shoes, although treaded, have ultra-stiff soles, so no hot-spots on all-day rides or power loss from flexing soles;
- There are other recessed cleat systems besides SPD; I've used Crank Brothers for 6 years and never once clipped out unintentionally, so no less secure than SPD-SL in my own experience.

The only negative I can see is the modest extra weight of the MTB shoe vs. road shoe. Balanced against the practicality positives of safer walking in a treaded shoe (but not great - since the carbon-soled shoes don't really flex) and double-sided pedal entry. Speedplays address the latter issue also.

I love how its all about 'high end carbon soled shoes'

last time i checked not everyone drops £250 on a pair of shoes.. mine cost £80 for example.

Therefore the merits of a larger cleat or contact patch are beneficial for many riders.


eg my £80 shoes are much more comfortable with SPD-SLs than with SPDs.

rdt

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

I love how its all about 'high end carbon soled shoes'

last time i checked not everyone drops £250 on a pair of shoes.. mine cost £80 for example.

Therefore the merits of a larger cleat or contact patch are beneficial for many riders.


eg my £80 shoes are much more comfortable with SPD-SLs than with SPDs.

I'm describing my experience with shoes I've owned, bought at low cost in sales, and the conclusion that the drawbacks of recessed-cleats pretty much disappear if you have ultra-stiff shoes. For newbies (this is the Beginner's form after all), that's useful info to know, if it means they can keep their existing recessed-cleat pedals rather than shelling out for new ones because they've fallen for "power transfer" yarns that get trotted out. Might even save them money, contrary to your what you're implying.

Reckon my work here is done

steelie600

Just get some DMR Vaults and some trainers, Nice comfy shoes, nice grippy pedals! Who gives a rats arse about pulling up with your leg to add extra power, its all BS anyway! I would much rather wear comfy shoes so that when I get off the bike I dont look like a complete tool waddling round like a penguin after 20 vodkas!

THE ONLY PLACE an amateur would get any advantage with clipped in shoes is off roading down a bumpy descent, so your feet dont slip off the pedals!

Im expecting a torrent of abuse for this post but I dont care, bcause its right! and you know it!

Boy Lard

Yeah, I've got Wellgo MG-1s on both my road bike and my commuting bike and I wear some Five Tens. My choice of pedal may have been influenced by breaking my ankle 18 months ago hitting a patch of ice while clipped in and not getting out/off in time.

Each to their own.