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Bomber command memorial

Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
edited July 2012 in The cake stop
The unveilling brought a lump to my throat. It's shameful it has taken so very long to give recognition (in this form) to so many brave young men.
Tail end Charlie

The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
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  • garrycgarryc Posts: 203
    Totaly agree, long overdue.
  • raymondo60raymondo60 Posts: 735
    Just saw the flyover - was it a Lancaster? and all the poppies floating down. Those young men were the warriors of their day; as Churchill said, 'Never has so much been owed by some many to so few' or words to that effect.
    Raymondo

    "Let's just all be really careful out there folks!"
  • TheEnglishmanTheEnglishman Posts: 587
    It's a bigger shame they never got a campaign medal.

    Still, I won't forget as my father was in the RAF from 43-49

    There was more than a lump in my throat watching Proceedings
    Please click here to sponsor me on a 100 mile charity bike ride in aid of the MS Society
  • TheEnglishmanTheEnglishman Posts: 587
    It's a bigger shame they never got a campaign medal.

    Still, I won't forget as my father was in the RAF from 43-49

    There was more than a lump in my throat watching Proceedings
    Please click here to sponsor me on a 100 mile charity bike ride in aid of the MS Society
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    TheEnglishman wrote:
    It's a bigger shame they never got a campaign medal.

    Still, I won't forget as my father was in the RAF from 43-49

    There was more than a lump in my throat watching Proceedings

    I heard some years ago of that travesty,but, I thought that they had eventually been awarded them.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • DavMartinRDavMartinR Posts: 897
    This a a little bit off topic, but have you seen this........................

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Md_aXVJE

    A Spitfire bird!
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,642
    This is long overdue. The lack of respect paid to these brave men is disgusting. Unfortunately many of them are no longer around to to see the wrong being put right.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Calibre Bossnut
  • MichaelWMichaelW Posts: 2,226
    About time we had one but I think this statue is a bit , well, too literal. It commemorates bomber crews by picturing a bomber crew.
    Personally, I would prefer a statue of a wistful black labrador pining for his master.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    MichaelW wrote:
    About time we had one but I think this statue is a bit , well, too literal. It commemorates bomber crews by picturing a bomber crew.
    Personally, I would prefer a statue of a wistful black labrador pining for his master.

    Personally I think it's a great piece of artwork, but, it's not about the form the monument takes it's the fact there now is one.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 7,510
    I knew a great guy who flew in bomber command - he said for every birthday someone always gets him a plane - and he sadi the last thing he ever wanted to see was a naffing plane. Sadly he passed away last year, i rode the cheshire cat to raise money for ssafa in his memory. They were incredibly brave men.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,889
    MichaelW wrote:
    Personally, I would prefer a statue of a wistful black labrador pining for his master.

    Yeah, but what would you call it? :twisted:
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    Far too long over due, Watching the unveiling brought a lump to my throat to

    My Uncle has a static caravan at Tatershall lakes near Raf Conigsby and in the Summer I ll ride out and have a beer on the deck with him just so I can watch the Battle of Britain memorial flight return from one of their various shows, Puts the hairs on the back of my neck up, One Lancaster (City of Lincoln) One Spitfire and One Hurricane you can hear them coming from the coast.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    johnfinch wrote:
    MichaelW wrote:
    Personally, I would prefer a statue of a wistful black labrador pining for his master.

    Yeah, but what would you call it? :twisted:

    Not answering that? But you'd have to make sure it was a Bronze , with a back end with two tin legs.
  • thegreatdividethegreatdivide Posts: 5,103
    tim wand wrote:
    Far too long over due, Watching the unveiling brought a lump to my throat to

    My Uncle has a static caravan at Tatershall lakes near Raf Conigsby and in the Summer I ll ride out and have a beer on the deck with him just so I can watch the Battle of Britain memorial flight return from one of their various shows, Puts the hairs on the back of my neck up, One Lancaster (City of Lincoln) One Spitfire and One Hurricane you can hear them coming from the coast.

    Back in the mists of time when I was in the ATC we had a summer camp at Coningsby and me and a couple of mates were tasked with the job of polishing the BoB flight for the week! 15 years old and clambering all over a Lancaster was a dream come true :-) And to top it off we all got to sit in it while it did an engine test run up the runway - the noise was incredible! :shock:

    It's a very moving monument.
  • ProssPross Posts: 24,971
    Well over due, these brave air crew became the victims of political correctness. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the political / military strategy (and let's face it our country had to endure the same as did many others) they had to carry out they risked their lives and were killed carrying out their duty.
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,473
    Okay. I will be "that guy".

    As much as I totally respect the men involved 100% I cannot but think the ordinary people of Dresden may have different feelings on this. Would the people of Coventry etc feel good about a monument being raised in Germany?

    Just felt that it had to be said but hopefully with no disrespect to the crews.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • ProssPross Posts: 24,971
    The memorial is for the crew that dies. I can't speak for the people of Coventry but I certainly wouldn't object to a similar memorial in Germany commemorating brave German aircrew who died obeying the orders of a dictatorial regime.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    daviesee wrote:
    Okay. I will be "that guy".

    As much as I totally respect the men involved 100% I cannot but think the ordinary people of Dresden may have different feelings on this. Would the people of Coventry etc feel good about a monument being raised in Germany?

    Just felt that it had to be said but hopefully with no disrespect to the crews.

    At that time we were invlved in "total war" the like of which had not been seen before and hopefully never again.

    The aircrews of bomber command were doing a given task, the validity of some of the targets from a military POV has been called into question since. However, IMHO "total war" is exactly that, and if it meant slaughtering tens of thousands of civilians that were helpnig the German war effort so beit. Carpet bombing was not a discriminatory technique but that was the best that was on offer at the time. Don't forget the Germans were quite happy to launch V1/V2 rockets our way and there was no control over where they would devastate.

    Not having a "pop" at you fella you're as entitled to an opinion as everyone,but, I feel it's very easy sitting in the safety of your armchair (to who you owe bomber command a debt, they helped win the war) pass judgement 60odd year later.

    We all know war is awful and the innocent become casualties but being honest winding the clock back if I though the deaths of 100,000 enemy would save one allied life, then it was a price worth the other side paying.

    Sorry if this causes offence but that's how I feel and I've never been involved intotal war.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • HeadhuunterHeadhuunter Posts: 6,494
    raymondo60 wrote:
    Just saw the flyover - was it a Lancaster? and all the poppies floating down. Those young men were the warriors of their day; as Churchill said, 'Never has so much been owed by some many to so few' or words to that effect.

    I think he said that about Fighter Command after so few fighter pilots managed to hold off the Luftwaffe in its quest for dominance of the skies over Britain... But anyway...
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • HeadhuunterHeadhuunter Posts: 6,494
    daviesee wrote:
    Okay. I will be "that guy".

    As much as I totally respect the men involved 100% I cannot but think the ordinary people of Dresden may have different feelings on this. Would the people of Coventry etc feel good about a monument being raised in Germany?

    Just felt that it had to be said but hopefully with no disrespect to the crews.

    This is probably why there has been less recognition of Bomber Command, some of the bombing by both sides (Dresden, Coventry, Bath etc) was simply malicious targetting of innocent civilians. Certainly some bombing targetted military and industrial sites but not all. The job needed doing but regrettably there was a lot of unnecessary killing... My great uncle was a bomber captain, he used to tell us the story of how they were lost over Germany on a mission once and the navigator pointed in 1 direction and said "that's the way home" but my great unlce as captain, overruled him and took them in the opposite direction and they made it home... The entire crew said they basically owed their lives to him as otherwise they basically would have crash landed somewhere in Germany...
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  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,473
    Frank the tank wrote:
    Not having a "pop" at you fella you're as entitled to an opinion as everyone,but, I feel it's very easy sitting in the safety of your armchair (to who you owe bomber command a debt, they helped win the war) pass judgement 60odd year later.
    I am not passing judgement, just trying to point out that there is a fine line between memorial and glorification and that these things can be taken the wrong way. I was trying to do it as politely as possible and with full respect.
    Making the point does not make it my view, either full or partial. Now that I have made the point I will toddle off to enjoy my freedom that others have made the sacrifices for.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    daviesee wrote:
    Frank the tank wrote:
    Not having a "pop" at you fella you're as entitled to an opinion as everyone,but, I feel it's very easy sitting in the safety of your armchair (to who you owe bomber command a debt, they helped win the war) pass judgement 60odd year later.
    I am not passing judgement, just trying to point out that there is a fine line between memorial and glorification and that these things can be taken the wrong way. I was trying to do it as politely as possible and with full respect.
    Making the point does not make it my view, either full or partial. Now that I have made the point I will toddle off to enjoy my freedom that others have made the sacrifices for.

    The memorial is not a glorification of those who died, it's a tribute.

    TBH, I knew when I made the OP such a observation as the one you made would be made. Whether you're playing devils advocate or not, it IS a view some hold and I don't dissrespect them for it. Those men died doing a job, it's not like they were emptying zyclon b pellets into the gas chambers.

    As I said fella, I wasn't having a go at you.Forums are what they are.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,473
    Frank the tank wrote:
    [TBH, I knew when I made the OP such a observation as the one you made would be made.
    Hence this
    daviesee wrote:
    Okay. I will be "that guy".

    All is good. :)
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • OffTheBackAdamOffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,914
    262176_10150249739288984_5396589_n.jpg
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • Le CommentateurLe Commentateur Posts: 4,174
    25,000 people, mostly civillians, died in that one Dresden raid. If that had been London we would call it a war crime. Winston Churchill wrote: ‘the destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of the Allied bombing’
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    OffTheBackAdam wrote:
    262176_10150249739288984_5396589_n.jpg

    One of if not my favourite aircraft of all time. :D:D
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    25,000 people, mostly civillians, died in that one Dresden raid. If that had been London we would call it a war crime. Winston Churchill wrote: ‘the destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of the Allied bombing’

    Wars are terrible things. One could argue all war is a crime.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • HeadhuunterHeadhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Frank the tank wrote:
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    25,000 people, mostly civillians, died in that one Dresden raid. If that had been London we would call it a war crime. Winston Churchill wrote: ‘the destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of the Allied bombing’

    Wars are terrible things. One could argue all war is a crime.
    All war is crime but I think we realise now that it's unethical to murder innocent civilians in their homes in an attempt to simply crush their spirits
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  • DavidBelcherDavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    People are quite right to question the ethics of blanket bombing of civilian targets, on the other hand Bomber Command played a key role in damaging key military sites such as the Peenemunde rocket complex, not to mention attacks on the German navy which frequently led to high RAF casualty rates (as you might be able to guess, I watched that very good documentary on the Yesterday channel narrated by Stephen Fry, before which I was blissfully unaware that the late Robin Gibb of all people was a major champion for ensuring that Bomber Command got some recognition at last).

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    Headhuunter wrote:
    Frank the tank wrote:
    Le Commentateur wrote:
    25,000 people, mostly civillians, died in that one Dresden raid. If that had been London we would call it a war crime. Winston Churchill wrote: ‘the destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of the Allied bombing’

    Wars are terrible things. One could argue all war is a crime.
    All war is crime but I think we realise now that it's unethical to murder innocent civilians in their homes in an attempt to simply crush their spirits

    I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a tactic persued by a modern airforce today,there's no need with the technology at our disposal. As I said earlier it was total war and after four+ years of it all tactics possible were being used. Do you think for one second had the Germans manufactured a nuclear bomb they'd have had any qualms about using it? I think not.

    As awful as it was I will never critisize the role bomber command took, or any of their individual missions.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
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