Shimano cassettes problem

ineedalager
ineedalager Posts: 374
edited March 2014 in Workshop
I just bought a set of Fulcrum racing 7's on here and they were advertised as Shimano freehub. But when I got them my 8 speed Shimano cassette won't fit. ( cassette is off my 2011 Allez) it's like the pattern on the freehub is the same but my cassette is to small to fit on! Also the Shimano lock ring won't fit the threads are different.

The seller assures me that he ran them with a 10 speed 105 cassette

Is there any difference in 8/9/10 speed Shimano cassettes besides needing spacers?

Comments

  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    If your cassette won't fit you've been sold a wheel with a Campag freehub, whatever the seller claims.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,853
    pics etc. showing shimano vs campag hub...

    http://www.ritcheylogic.com/faqs.phtml#240
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • ineedalager
    ineedalager Posts: 374
    I did a search and came across Sheldon Brown's web site. On there he says an Aluminuim 10 speed Shimano hub will only fit 10 speed cassettes and not 8/9 speed but a 10 speed cassette will fit all three. This is confirmed in the fact that the seller was using 10 speed 105 cassette.

    It's a shame he didn't advertise the wheels as 10 speed only instead of Shimano fit! Then I wouldn't have bought them. Looks like I'll have lash out on a chain mech and shifters and go 10 speed!
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,605
    There was a thread a little while ago with someone having a rant about some Shimano wheels he bought being only 10 sp compatible, which apparently was a short lived design change or something. Surprised that Fulcrum wheels would have different freehub, since it is usual that 8/9 and 10sp all fit the same unit, occasionally needing a spacer behind the cassette.

    You could get a replacement freehub, but that means less shopping for upgrade parts to 10!
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • ineedalager
    ineedalager Posts: 374
    There was a thread a little while ago with someone having a rant about some Shimano wheels he bought being only 10 sp compatible, which apparently was a short lived design change or something. Surprised that Fulcrum wheels would have different freehub, since it is usual that 8/9 and 10sp all fit the same unit, occasionally needing a spacer behind the cassette.

    You could get a replacement freehub, but that means less shopping for upgrade parts to 10!

    That would tie up with what I've found with some searching it seems I have some early Shimano 10 speed only freehub with taller splines that won't fit 8/9 speed. Here is some explanation from an old thread I found,

    It is a compatibility issue.

    Ultegra 6600 is 10sp-only, will only take a 105, Ultegra or DA 10sp cassette

    To fit these cassettes to a 8/9/10sp hub you need a spacer.

    But the Tiagra 10sp doesn't need a spacer, will only fit a 8/9/10sp hub, doesn't fit a 10sp-onlt hub

    It's not a matter of a more modern hub - 6600 is not modern, it's from 5 or 8 or something years ago, when Shimano produced a few higher-end wheels which were 10sp-only, like DA7800 and Ultegra 6600
    - modern Shimano hubs like 6700 or 7850 or 7900's went back to being 8/9/10sp

    I can only imagine Shimano got so many complaints and queries about 10sp cassettes on 8/9/10sp hubs needing the spacer, that when they made 10sp Tiagra they ditched it
    - perhaps they thought if you had these more expensive wheels you wouldn't be fitting a cheap-end cassette

    So I have a choice £63 for a 8/9/10 speed Shimano for Fulcrum racing 5 and 7's modern hub or keep this Ali 10 speed hub and spend loads of money coverting to 10 speed!
  • Meds1962
    Meds1962 Posts: 391
    If I recall correctly, Shimano 10 speed specific wheels were a fair bit cheaper when new than ones 8/9/10 compatible, but they were clearly advertised as 10 speed only. I almost bought an Ultegra set because the price was very attractive but ended up getting the Ultegra tubeless ones which are 8/9/10 compatible.

    Presumably other brands using the same freehub would have been advertised similarly.
    O na bawn i fel LA
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    Ineedalager,
    that's my post you've found explaining Shimano 10sp-only freehubs

    And if you've found the Sheldon piece too, you understand the problem (Sheldon died a couple of years ago so it isn't quite uptodate e.g. regards 10sp Tiagra, but it does explain the issue)

    So if you have the problem where the splines are the correct pattern, but are too high to fit in the grooves of a 8sp cassette, then does indeed look like it's a 10sp-only freehub

    However, I didn't realise Fulcrum made them, certainly not on their entry-level wheelset like a R7 which you would expect might be used on 8sp or 9sp, rather than R1 or Zero where presumably for that money you would be 10sp
    (and for what it's worth, SRAM never went with the deeper splines either, so if yours is Shimano 10sp-only, it wouldn't even work with a SRAM 10sp cassette)

    Look at them on e.g. Ribble and it says
    "Maximum Compatibility: With the new Fulcrum freehub body dedicated to non-Campagnolo drivetrains you will be able to exploit the maximum versatility of your current system. We have developed a freehub body that is perfectly compatible with Shimano Inc. 8, 9 and 10 speed systems and Sram Co. 10 speed ones.
    Also available in Campagnolo 9/10/11 speed"
    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ULCWHFR250

    And here's a replacement freehub body for the R5 and R7 - it clearly says "A replacement freeehub body to suit Fulcrum Racing 5 and 7 rear wheels. This freehub body is to suit Shimano 8/9/10 speed."
    http://www.slanecycles.com/fulcrum-free ... livery=222

    Look at it on Wiggle though, and look at the customer reviews tab
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-shimano ... 2f9%2fSRAM
    - one guy is talking about using it to convert from Campag to Shimano (fair enough)
    - but another says "This is apparently the only item capable of adapting my Fulcrum 7 wheels to a 9-speed Shimano cassette."

    So looks like possibly you're right, at some point Fulcrum must have made some with a 10sp-only freehub (not today presumably, from what's listed on Ribble) and that guy on Wiggle had them, like you

    You could fit the replacement freehub body, but at £60-odd quid...how much did you pay for the wheels ?

    Upgrading your bike to 10sp will need shifters, cassette and chain (mechs, chainset and brakes will be OK, unless you might want to upgrade them to match...) so will be considerably more expensive again

    Or you could flog the wheels on again, hopefully for what you paid for them, and just buy some which are 8/9/10sp compatible
  • ineedalager
    ineedalager Posts: 374
    Thanks for all the replies the seller agreed to take these back as he did not advertise them as 10 speed only just Shimano fit. I also found both rims were slightly buckled and it took almost a week after he had my money before he sent them. Nightmare all around really I decided it was to expensive to upgrade everything to 10 speed for a set of entry level buckled wheels! The cost of the wheels was £85 and a replacement freehub for 8/9/10 speed was £63 so again just didn't make sense to keep them. If they had been true I would have considered a freehub but dam these things are so expensive! it costs almost as much as the wheels did!

    Lookout for these strange 10 speed only freehubs they are made of aluminum instead of plastic and have a step on them which almost fits the 8/9 speed then the dia get larger with higher splines than the modern 8/9/10 speed Shimano freehubs. Also the Shimano lock ring doesn't fit the thread on these Fulcrum racing 7's
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,194
    I've got a set of Ritchey WCS wheels which I've only ever used 105 5600 cassettes on. The freehubs have the step on them, which would indicate that they are 10 speed only.

    I attempted to fit a Tiaga 4600 cassette but it didn't fit over the step, same with an SRAM 1050 cassette switched from another set of wheels.

    Question I've got is which cassettes should fit? Reading the above would suggest pretty much anything apart from 4600 would work. I've seen decent deals on both 105 5700 and Ultegra 6700; would probably go 6700 if it fits as rest of the bike is Ultegra.
  • andy_wrx
    andy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    As you've found, any Shimano 10sp except Tiagra.

    Fit Ultegra if you want, but you won't tell any difference from 105