Marmotte 2013
Comments
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While I agree that there were people who were all over the road and doing stupid things, but to blame all blowouts on having to avoid bad descenders is ridiculous.
Also, it is a mass participation, open event. If you want a qualification event with a minimum standard applied, then don't ride the Marmotte.0 -
ManxShred wrote:While I agree that there were people who were all over the road and doing stupid things, but to blame all blowouts on having to avoid bad descenders is ridiculous.
It was this and people running too high pressures.
If you can't let the bike run from one corner to the next then you will superheat your rims. Whether that's because you're the one not comfortable travelling at that speed and end up dragging your brakes, or one of the more confident descenders behind being held up, the results are the same.
Would be better if the Marmotte riders spent a week in the mountains beforehand to get used to descending, but appreciate that's not possible for everyone.0 -
As mentioned before, main problem with carbon clinchers is that carbon is a bad conductor of heat. The braking heat cannot dissipate, tire expands or melts and boom. Some carbon clinchers with alloy breaking surfaces, particularly the Mavic ones are better in this respect due to their design, but all have nowhere near the heat dissipation of alloy clinchers.
Carbon clinchers are nice but they are not suitable for this sort of event. You are sharing the roads with others and should expect to brake more often. Moan all you like but that is the way it is in this sort of event.
Agree with you on spending a week in the mountains before hand as well. There is nothing to compare to long technical alpine descents in the UK and you will have a much more enjoyable ride if you are confident on the descents.
Not just the amateurs who are bad descenders either - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-a ... n-the-tour0 -
AngryNortherner wrote:never ever again.
How many times do I read that from Marmotte riders..The feed stops were comically bad, for the price of the thing and the Powerbar sponsorship you'd think they could have something descent
Actually compared with many events across the continent the event as a whole is comically bad.
Compared with the likes of the Maratona and the Alpine Brevet, the Sportful and the Pinarello, it's a poorly organised rip off.
It's not even as hard as some of those, nothing like as challenging as the Alpine Brevet or Sportful IME. But to charge what they do and to offer nothing in return sucks. No road closures ( the partial ones they claimed to have were more of a problem that open roads). No freebies.
Compared with the Maratona the week before, it was a poor joke. For similar entry fees, the Maratona offered a free bidon, Cap, Gilet and race jersey amongst other items. It also offered properly monitored closed roads and some of the best riding on the continent.
SportsComms need to up their game - next year the event clashes with the Grand Depart and I suspect that will hit them like a ton of bricks. It's interesting to see how few French riders bother with it. The BRA is a vastly better attended event and the Luc Alphand is massively popular domestically too. There is a lack of local support for La Marmotte, unlike events like the Maratona and Ardechoise.
Once again fair play to all who took part and finished but I can't say I was in the least bit impressed by the event. I guess I simply don't understand the hold it has over people, especially when there are so many better events across Europe during the summer months.0 -
airwise wrote:Compared with the Maratona the week before, it was a poor joke. For similar entry fees, the Maratona offered a free bidon, Cap, Gilet and race jersey amongst other items. It also offered properly monitored closed roads and some of the best riding on the continent.
- Maratona is good but it also costs €88 to enter! ( €10 refund for chip ). Agree that is still better value than the Marmotte though considering the goodie bag.airwise wrote:SportsComms need to up their game - next year the event clashes with the Grand Depart and I suspect that will hit them like a ton of bricks. It's interesting to see how few French riders bother with it. The BRA is a vastly better attended event and the Luc Alphand is massively popular domestically too. There is a lack of local support for La Marmotte, unlike events like the Maratona and Ardechoise.
- Not sure, Marmotte was still extremely popular with the Brits when it clashed with the TdF in London in 2007.
- As for the BRA, it used to be a really big event but now has less than 900 starters!
- Agree with you that Sports Comm need to up their game though, particularly as the event becomes even more popular.0 -
airwise wrote:SportsComms need to up their game - next year the event clashes with the Grand Depart and I suspect that will hit them like a ton of bricks.
It's largely Dutch and Belgain affair, and Alpe d'Huez has a mystical hold over the Dutch in particular. The other events you mention don't contain the Alpe, so lack the attraction to the Dutch.
Not sure the Grand Depart will affect things too much. There was a clash in 2011 and there was no impact on the size of the field. This year and last there has also been an Etape the Sunday after the Marmotte with no obvious downside on entries.
This isn't to praise Sportscommunication (who are a rapacious commercial enterprise - you have to buy your own medals FFS!) or criticise the other events you mention; it's just to point out some factors and history relevant to Marmotte entries past and present.
There was at least good lighting in all the tunnels this year.
Living in Yorkshire, I'm focusing on Le Grand Depart next year. The Marmotte will be a great success without me, I suspect!0 -
airwise obviously didn't enjoy the event. I, on the other hand, had a great day out. Weather was a bit too hot in places, but most of the time over 1400m there was a cool breeze. The Glandon was a fun descent. Saw a few dodgey moves by some fast guys cutting up some of the slower ones, but it was generally ok. Lightweight tyres at high pressure seemed to be disintegrating. Some of the feedstations were poor and a much more efficient way of getting water was needed. Generally people were confused as to what was on offer and where it was so there was a lot of standing around with bikes which just clogged everything up. A big crowd like that needs clear and positive marshalling. Galibier descent was awesome. I was a long way back in the field so it was quite sparse of riders. Value for money - reasonable, since it was only a fraction of Sundays restaurant and bar bill!. A 2013 dated Jersey would be good, I would be happy to pay a few more Euros towards this. The undated jerseys for sale to all are of no interest to me. As for other freebies, medals etc .... they mostly go straight into the bin anyway so whats the point. Well done to all those who completed. Its also a 'never again' from me, only because I've now ticked that box so can move on - this pretty much applies to all events - unless its on my doorstep.Hills do make I sweat a lot0
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Maybe I'm in a minority, but I really couldn't find much fault with the event and found the organisation excellent.
The feed stops were all well stocked and had an excellent range of food/drink - you got a better meal there than in most cafes in England! Lots of nice ham, brie, bread, fruit, sweets...certainly more than enough to keep you going. Water was plentiful and the support throughout was excellent - lots of cheering and people pouring water over you to cool you down.
As for the descending, I'm pretty certain I saw the rider in question on the road in the Glandon and it wasn't a pretty sight. I would say that I'm a fairly conservative descender and always remind myself I have a family back home that want me back. I saw some pretty daring descenders on the Glandon but I just don't see what the point is when it's neutralised.
At the opposite end, I can totally sympathise with poor descenders, particularly on the Glandon. The top section is so steep that speeds build up really quickly and it can be quite scary - you'll note that they don't neutralise the other descents which illustrates the Glandon is particularly tricky.
Overall though I'd say the standard of riding was very high and nothing worth moaning about at all - skill levels of the average rider are several levels above anything in a UK sportive, im my opinion.0 -
Rob Somerset wrote:A 2013 dated Jersey would be good, I would be happy to pay a few more Euros towards this.
Incidentally, you could swap your chip for a t-shirt if you wanted, which is what I did - but only on the flight back did someone point out to me that all the t-shirts were dated 2012 which is a bit cheeky if you ask me, using last year's stock!0 -
I thought the organisation was fairly good, but didn't like the desk/queuing thing going on at the bottom of the Telegraphe for water.
The tunnels were excellent this year. Well lit and smooth compared to 2 years ago.
As others have said, some of the descending was awful. People fully on the brakes the whole way down. Teams filling the road at 30kph.
Not sure I'd do it again. Enjoyed the first one, but this was just too hot. I think I'm more suited to Belgium in March.
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TheStone wrote:I thought the organisation was fairly good, but didn't like the desk/queuing thing going on at the bottom of the Telegraphe for water.
Part of the problem with a lot of the water/food stops was that riders appeared to be scared to leave their bikes for anything longer than 1 second, so walked with them right up to the desks, blocking the way for other people. If there was a space for people to leave their bikes and walk to the food/water desks without them it would have been much smoother.0 -
So...any advice for someone attempting the route solo? (I'll be there next week.)0
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grimpeur wrote:As mentioned before, main problem with carbon clinchers is that carbon is a bad conductor of heat. The braking heat cannot dissipate, tire expands or melts and boom. Some carbon clinchers with alloy breaking surfaces, particularly the Mavic ones are better in this respect due to their design, but all have nowhere near the heat dissipation of alloy clinchers.
Carbon clinchers are nice but they are not suitable for this sort of event. You are sharing the roads with others and should expect to brake more often. Moan all you like but that is the way it is in this sort of event.
Agree with you on spending a week in the mountains before hand as well. There is nothing to compare to long technical alpine descents in the UK and you will have a much more enjoyable ride if you are confident on the descents.
Not just the amateurs who are bad descenders either - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-a ... n-the-tour
The blowouts I witnessed were all on alloys, but agree the design of carbon clinchers leaves a lot to be desired in that regard. On a different note, I was just amazed by how many 80 and 100mm deep section wheels were on display for an event with 5000m ascent.0 -
kramark wrote:So...any advice for someone attempting the route solo? (I'll be there next week.)
Yes, plenty of advice for you:
Stock up on water whenever you get the opportunity. It can get REALLY HOT and was 39 degrees on Saturday, which is scorching by the time you hit AdH.
Set off as early as you can. The Marmotte rolled out around 7am; if you can set off even early (6am) you'll be doing yourself a favour.
Take it REALLY CAREFUL on the Glandon descent - it's really technical, difficult and many of people come a cropper there (and - as others have said - I think another rider died on Saturday).
Know the route - if you're riding it solo make sure you get the turning correct at the Glandon and don't go via Croix De Fer instead!
Wear plenty of suncream - I applied factor 50 at the start of the day and was still sunburnt at the end.
Pace yourself - don't overdo it on the flat section from Bourg D'Oisans to the turning towards Glandon.
Other than that - enjoy the scenery and have a great ride!0 -
barrybridges wrote:Take it REALLY CAREFUL on the Glandon descent - it's really technical, difficult and many of people come a cropper there (and - as others have said - I think another rider died on Saturday).
The Glandon is OK when it's not crowded. I'm a technically poor descender, but have found it OK. I don't think any extra precautions vs other climbs are warranted, though if in doubt, erring on the side of caution can't be "dissed" as advice!
Don't forget to enjoy the scenery. The Glandon ascent and the upper sections of the Galibier are superb in this respect, though the valley between the Glandon and the Telegraphe are best not mentioned in this respect.0 -
Thanks! I'm from the southeastern US where it has been 30-35 degrees so I'm hopefully a little more used to the heat...39 sounds horrible, though. I've been concerned about the water, especially since there won't be any event rest stops...would a Camelbak be a good idea to bring?
Someone suggested that I go to Croix de Fer instead of Glandon, to avoid some of the valley...0 -
kramark wrote:Thanks! I'm from the southeastern US where it has been 30-35 degrees so I'm hopefully a little more used to the heat...39 sounds horrible, though. I've been concerned about the water, especially since there won't be any event rest stops...would a Camelbak be a good idea to bring?
Someone suggested that I go to Croix de Fer instead of Glandon, to avoid some of the valley...
A Camelbak would be a great idea. Avoiding dehydration is more important than not looking like a mountain biker!
Going via the Croix used to be the Marmotte route, if memory serves. There was an issue with one of the tunnels for an event with so many riders, but I think it's perfectly OK if you're riding solo.0 -
Well I had a bit of a disaster and did not finish. I had severe sun stroke and was struggling badly on Galibier...to the extent that many were enquiring to my wellbeing. I tried to eat food and take on water but could not control the vomitting. I was quite simply sick a few minutes after drinking water everytime for a spell. i was then spotted by a Doctor on the back of one of the support motorbikes and given an injection in the bum.....the bizarre sight of me on all fours at the roadside on Galibier with a needle in my backside was funny to passing cyclists but no laughing matter for me. I was helped by another cyclist (not doing Marmotte) and he accompanied me for the last 4km to the summit...with stops. I then decided to cycle the down hill to Bourg but when reaching there i just found the "allure" of a bed in the medical tent too hard to resisit....I think I would have made myself more ill attempting the Alpe. I saw a couple more doctors and they confirmed that it was unwise to continue in my state I arrived at the foot at 1820 and I believe the cut off was 1815 anyway...so I would not have received a medal anyway.
I then made the difficult call to my g/f to come down and pick me up.....we slowly weaved our way past all those ascending and not once did I feel that I should have carried on. That night i said never again but today I look upon Marmotte as unfinished business.....
What were the actual temperatures? i have read anything from 35c to a whopping 45c (previous page) i really struggle in the heat and it reminded me of a previous marathon in Helsinki (32C) where I felt the same...projectile vomitting etc) and ended up in an ambulance. Etape diu Tour Acte 2 2012 was a dream for me but others had to drop out with hypothermia...we are all different eh
I also recall seeing someone prone on the tar well down Glandon...2 ambulances around.....I really hope the post of someone losing their life is not true....not seen anything anywhere else......puts my (temporary) troubles into perspective.....0 -
In response to previous pages comments:
1) The feed stations were very poor compared to the Etape the next day
2) You dont do the Marmotte for the food
3) My Garmin read 36 degrees on the top of the Galibier
4) I persuaded a rider with obvious heat stroke to retire under a bush in Valloire, left him after he insisted I did and then wondered how the hell he was going to get back to Bourg with no obvious support or sweep0 -
kramark wrote:I've been concerned about the water, especially since there won't be any event rest stops...would a Camelbak be a good idea to bring?
No need for a camelbak, 2 bottles would be fine.
There are plenty of basins on route where you can refill your water, almost all villages will have them. Just make sure you have 2 full bottles from Valloire as that would be the longest stretch. Plan Lachet could be a good stop point and there is another cafe just over the summit.0 -
The water fountains in the villages- I'm not sure what I should be looking for. Something like this?
(things like this do not exist where I live, just decorative fountains where the water is recirculated and not drinkable)
Or these?
(I apologize for being the stereotypical ignorant American tourist
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The former - but there are villages and towns with shops as well as cafes so unless you plan a timed attempt you should be fine.
On the debate about the event - i found the organisation pretty good and rider standards fine for what is after all a mass participation event.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
if you're riding on your own then you can pace the route as you wish stopping for coffee, photos, food & water etc all of which are plenty and easy to find.
FYI the source of water stops on the official Marmotte was the frequent mini waterfalls off the mountains, they had a traffic cone connected to a long hose which feed into a metal frame with multiple taps. Genius Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
I also did la marmotte 2013 with 4 friends and it was brutal. Glandon was great, bit of a scrum for water etc but otherwise all going well. Descent of Glandon was fast but dangerous, I too saw a few people receiving medical attention including the guy with the head wound who was at least sitting up and had a medic with him. I'm not the fastest of descenders but there were some people who appeared to have absolutely no regard for other riders, either stopping practically in the middle of the road or cutting you up without warning.
The bottom of the valley was tough. There were lots of peloton a forming but all generally going too fast for me and ithnk I spent too much energy trying to keep up with my colleagues.
Telegraph was harder than I expected. At least most of it was in the shade and you couldn't see how far you still had to go. There were bodies everywhere on the side of the road either sitting down or pushing bikes. Managed to keep a steady if slow tempo to top.
Galibier was absolutely brutal. The heat was intense and I can't recall how many times I had to poor my drink over my head to try and prevent heat stroke. The tarmac in some places was now melting and one of my friends had to stop to scrape some off his tyre!. When someone says 'don't look up' they generally mean it. I looked up. It was like seeing what appeared to be ants marching up and up in the distance knowing this was what was still ahead. At least in the alpes you make rapid progress in terms of altitude and before long the folks behind me looked like ants.
Got to top of galibier at circa 4.30. After refilling water bottles gels etc it was long descent to the bottom go alpe d'huez. Roads now seemed definitely open and with the headwind (try cycling on your turbo with face Ito hair dryer to recreate feeling) we raced to the time cut off. I used every ounce of energy left to get there knowing that if I made it, I'd get a time. we mistakenly stopped at the feed station which was just before the cut off and just made it at 3 mins to 6.
I had no energy left but some how managed to cycle the first 3 switch backs before having to stop. It was then a case of riding 4 or so switch backs and the stopping. Every inch of shade had someone sat in it. Apart from the need to get to the top ( where we were staying) the thought of being beaten by a runner up alpe d'huez didn't bare thinking about and it was definitely mind over matter.
I made it with a time of 11 hrs 5 mins. I was ready to throw my bike in the skip. 3 days later I'm now planning my training regime for next year.
Riding in the alpes was fantastic and the altitude you achieve and views you ge are absolutely amazing.
Well domes to everyone who attempted it and to those who got round.0 -
Rob Somerset wrote:airwise obviously didn't enjoy the event.
Rob, I never enjoy it
I have to do it though as I'm usually out on course for guests.
I just do not get what it is that keeps bringing people back year after year when there are so many superior, harder, better value, events spread across the continent throughout the Summer - most of which I have now been lucky enough to ride.
The Marmotte has this mystique surrounding it. OK I get that there are three "iconic" tour climbs, but one descent is neutralised and still perilous, the other is one of the least enjoyable in the Alps with tunnels and traffic. The roads are not closed (despite assurances to the contrary) and you get nothing worthwhile for your money save the privilege of entry.
If it were me and my money, I would explore some of the other events across Europe, in particular I would experience a big GF in Italy. The climbs are just as iconic, often harder, the standard of riding is usually superior, and the food is better. Plus you get something for your money.
The only reason I can see for doing the Marmotte is to tell people in the club that you've done it as it's well known. I ride for personal pleasure (and pain ) when I can. 0 -
What would you say are the other events to do then - I'd certaily like to ride some alternatives - though talking others into doing somethingother than the Marmotte has proved fruitless in the past. Looking for similar mass participation rides.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
airwise wrote:I just do not get what it is that keeps bringing people back year after year...
Gold medal fever possibly. The standards are quite generous and a gold medal is a realistic aim for a well trained, determined type of limited ability. I got one last year, whereas three weeks earlier in the White Rose Classic from Ilkley, I'd been nowhere near even a silver medal. Bagging a gold medal feels great; much better than "Top quartile" or whatever.
Once you've done the Marmotte, the obvious thing to do to confirm you're getting better is to do it again!
Your reference to harder events elsewhere is interesting. The Marmotte is plenty hard enough for most!0 -
It went from "ok" to "hmm" to "oh Christ this is hard work" to survival mode for me.
Humidity on the Glandon was oppressive and heat on the Galibier was more oppressive. I made the mistake of looking at around 4-5k to go the Galibier summit, and swore my head off. 4-5k in a straight line from where I was to the Col, maybe. It looked closer to 8-9 over the ground. Therein lies the consequence of the "looking up" error. Although I recovered a bit on the descent to the Alpe, the Alpe itself shredded me. I clung on til turn 16 before sitting down on the corner, and had to sit down maybe (I really can't remember - it's all a bit fuzzy) a couple more times after that. No elation or joy at crossing the finish line. Just a sense of "thank fcuk that's over".
I think it's unrealistic to expect all, or even the vast majority of Marmotte entrants to have awesome descending skills. I certainly don't. Coming off the Glandon I tucked in far right and nursed it down. I saw a rider blow out his rear tyre 40m ahead of me, then heard another BANG! a few seconds later. Cue: pull over, check the rims, say "ouch" at the heat and let some air out of the tyres.
The simple fact is that there are going to be riders in a mass event like that who can't descend like an Exocet missile. The Glandon descent presents a particular difficulty because the bulk of the field (where the nervy descenders are likely to be) is not very strung out that early in the course, the road is pretty narrow, and there's a fair amount of heavy braking required (unlike the Galibier descent).
I now have big sympathies for riders who ride their bikes to the taps. I leant mine up for no more than 90s at the feed station just before the right hand turn off the Telegraphe, and in that time had the Joule 2.0 removed from the bars. Pretty shitty thing to do.0
