Anyone running tubeless?

ba68

As per the title, anyone here running tubeless (not tubular!), what wheels are you using and what's your experience?

asprilla

I was using Fulcrum Racing 1 Two Way Fits. Found it to be excellent riding, it was just a messy pain in the bum to set up. It also killed my track pump; it never occurred to me that all that latex would be pushed back into the pump.

I really liked it but I've found that running 23mm wide rims gives most of the benefits I was after in terms of ride, and more do I'm doing that now instead. I'm thinking about building up some Stans ZTR Alpha rims and will probably run them tubeless if I get round to it.

ba68

Interesting, I didn't think about the impact on the pump, but do you really need much sealant in the tyre? I am contemplating getting some fulcrum 3's, I am attracted by the supposed smoother / more supple ride.

asprilla

You are supposed to put 25ml of sealant in when you fit the tyres.

When you first fit you might end up putting more in as it can be difficult to get the tyre to seat correctly and so it deflates overnight. It's worth investing in the syringe to fill the tyres via the removable valve core.

Eich

25ml? I thought Stans recommendation was more like 60ml. Anyway I have been using 30 to 40ml with only one real test that I'm aware of. I scored a hole in the side wall but the Stans goo managed stop it. I rode home with ~50 psi left I guess. Every 6 months or so the sealant has to be changed because it dries out.

I've been running Hutchies Intensives on Fulcrum Racing 3 Two Way Fit. They were a bear to fit. I found that I had to pay attention to ALL the proper tyre fitting procedures to get them on.
The ride was excellent, the road holding just so so. Punctures were not a problem. The wheels were pretty heavy though. I got 14,000 km out of one rear tyre. I think they fill the bill for commuting tyres.

Lately I've been running GP4000s on light weight clinchers. The ride is marginally harsher. The road holding is better and the lighter weight is a bit nicer. I guess the road holding and durability of Fusion 3s would be much like the GP4000s. Fusion 3s are still a bit heavy though. I understand Hutchies have released a lighter tubeless tyre recently. I'll give that a run one day.

All in all I feel somewhat ambivalent about tubeless. If you are cursed by punctures then you will love them. You may also like the cushy ride. If you are weight conscious they are probably not for you.

nferrar

When using a pump just make sure the valve is at the top of the wheel and let a bit of air out first (without the pump attached), this not only breaks the seal so it you don't have to pump 200psi in to start but also clears the latex from the valve. As for tubeless on road, still not convinced myself (advocate on the MTB though), mainly as I'd need new rims and the tyre choice isn't great (despite people having success there's no way I'm risking ghettoing tubeless on the road).

ba68

Thanks Eich, useful it hear your expereince compared to clinchers, I'm currently using GP4000s's on Fulcrum 5's so maybe I will stick with those. I haven't heard anyone make a really compelling case for Tubeless yet.

stanthomas

Just piggybacking on this topic to vent my frustration...

Three years I've been running tubeless. No punctures in that time. Sure, I've picked up a thorn or two but the tyre just went soft overnight so grovelling at the side of the road is an experience I thought I'd consigned to history. But this winter's taken its toll on my rim and, to be on the safe side, I swapped in a spare tubed wheel/tyre for a quick spin out today - 15km, yes 15 !*%&!"@"!, and I'm rediscovering the joys of the mini-pump and replacing tubes on a damp, muddy verge.

Aaaaaargh!*@**^&!

stanthomas

Normally service resumed and a huge relief to be rid of those inner tubes again.

While scouting around for a new wheel I came across some very good deals on tubeless wheels/tyres...

Shimano RS61, £177 (after 10% off) from Ribble

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/wheels-factory-built-wheels-factory-road-tri-shimano-rs61-clincher-wheels-pair/shimwhfr384. This is what I went with 'cos I wanted something cheap to sacrifice to winter roads. Don't seem very different to the Ultegra 6700s they replace.

Easton EA90RT + Hutchinson Fusion, £340 from Wiggle

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/easton-ea90-road-tubeless-wheels-and-tyre-set/. I run this on my no.1 bike. Great combination and an object lesson in the benefits of tubeless.

Schwalbe Ultremo ZX tubeless, £29 on eBay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schwalbe-ULTREMO-ZX-Evolution-TL-FOLDING-700x23-BLACK-/360842589987. Very much a summer tyre but has had some good reviews.

Go Tubeless. You'll never want to go back.

964cup

Yes, running Hutchison Intensives on my winter bike/commuter (Felt F3X) on the tubeless disc wheelset supplied with the bike. Used 30ml of Caffe Lattex in each wheel. Ride quality is excellent at 100psi, I've convinced myself I can detect the reduced rolling resistance, and no punctures so far. I do find they lose pressure overnight, though, by about 10-20psi. Chatting to the chap on the Schwalbe stand at the London Bike Show, he suggested using Stans instead of Caffe Lattex (apparently Schwalbe's own sealant is just rebadged Stans) so I'll try that when/if I can be bothered to strip the tyres and clean out the old sealant. Getting the tyres on was a complete bastard, though - I broke two Mavic tyre levers - so I'm not terribly motivated to try. Chucking 10psi in every morning is hardly a labour of Hercules.

stanthomas

Several people, including me, have found that Hutchinson Intensives are not air-tight out of the box
http://road.cc/content/review/54661-hut ... less-tyres. So you must use sealant when new. However, the sealant infuses the tyre after a week and you can run without thereafter if you wish.
Schwalbe "Doc Blue" is indeed the same as Stan's NoTubes but there have been reports of Hutchinson getting sniffy with warranty claims when not using their own brand sealant. I use Stan's (well I would, wouldn't I ).

The Hutchinson Intensive is an excellent winter tyre. Grips well in all weathers, at least as good as a Conti 4 Season and infinitely better than GatorSkins. Rolls well and wear is exceptional, mine have outlasted the rims! They are a bit on the heavy side but then so are GatorSkins. For a winter/audax bike, encumbered with mudguards and lights, reliability and durability wins every time. They do work better with the wider, tubeless specific rims when they fatten out to 24mm. I run 5bar (75psi) front, 5.5bar(83psi) rear with excellent results and a smooth ride.

Fitting. Yes, they are a SOB to get on. You do get better with practice but, after bashing my knuckles a few times, I made a tool. Now I can fit a tubeless tyre faster and more reliably than a tubed one. And I reckon my mother, who has trouble opening jam jars, could put one on. I've been told I should make some to sell, but I know how mean roadies are, after all, I are one, so here's a question for you guys - would road tubeless take off if fitting was a breeze?

964cup

I'd be a lot happier about tubeless if fitting wasn't such a pain. I don't even bother carrying a tube now, not so much because I have confidence in the tyre or the sealant as because I know I won't be able to take the tyre off at the roadside; I simply assume that if it punctures beyond the capability of the sealant and the tubeless repair kit I carry (more in hope than expectation) I'll be taking a cab.

I would be very interested in your tool. Fnarr.

kayakerchris

been running tubeless for a couple of years and a few ams. I love them I have had a couple of punctures that i know about. The tyre suddenly seems a little softer. First time I got off the bike inspected the tyre, couldn't see anything and rode on. Now I don't even bother. Pump up the tyre to full press when i get home and ignore it.

They can be a pain to inflate the first time and I bought a new decent track pump which did the job. I would also recommend letting the tyre sit in a warm room before first fitting and just loosely putting it on the rim so that it goes from folded shape to round shape. I also grip where the valve enters the rim and compress the tyre at that point so all the air goes circumferentially to push the tyre onto the rim.

i wouldn't ever go back.

davidof

I use Shimano 6700 c/w Schwalbe Ultremos. Dead easy to fit, will work without sealant but I put it in anyway. I wouldn't go back to tubes.

davidof

If you are interested here is an 8 minute video documenting my tubeless fitting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkEB2sPae3s

6wheels

davidof wrote:

If you are interested here is an 8 minute video documenting my tubeless fitting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkEB2sPae3s

That was really enjoyable...nice job.

It would be interesting to know what your thoughts are after using them? I am building some A23's up, and undecided whether to go tubeless or stick with tubes.

davidof

The Schwalbes are a good tire, I used them all last summer and they've held up well, no nicks or anything. Bike is in storage until the spring. They hold air pretty well, maybe about 5psi loss per day down to about 80psi when they stop losing air. I really like the ride, I paid about 60 euros for a pair so it is not so far off a tire and tube combo. I intent to stick with tubeless in the future; lack of choice is still the major issue.

I'm not (no longer) a racer so can't comment from that aspect.

ednino

I'm getting a Stans alpha 340 wheelset built soon. Will be using them with Shwarble Ultremo tyres

Can't wait to be honest as I hate inner tubes. Use tubeless on the XC bike with great success & confidence