Why is blood doping banned?

natrix

As I understand it,if you want to thicken up your blood by having a transfusion of some blood that you gave earlier, then, if you are caught, you will be banned for doping.

However, if you want to thicken up your blood to the same level by training at altitude, or using one of those fancy-pants tents then it seems to be OK.

So what is the difference?? It seems to be OK to take vitamins etc intravenously, so what is wrong with injecting blood?

Is it just an arbitrary rule, like the minimum bike weight rule??

rick_chasey

Scale.

Going at altitude is far less effective than sticking a needle in your arm.

Also, blood doping is as much about replacing knackered blood with new blood - reducing the reduction in blood oxygen carrying efficiency that occurs after long period of strenuous exercise.

graeme_s-2

Isn't there also a rider safety issue here? Mucking about with blood transfusions is inherently risky I'd have thought.

Pross

Training at altitude is still training i.e. you are having to work to creat a physiological change rather than just pumping some fresh blood in. Likewise, even using the tent your body is making the change naturally. Presumably any method that results in your haematocrit levels exceeding the maximum are going to prevent you taking part in a race though?

natrix

Rick Chasey wrote:

Scale.

Going at altitude is far less effective than sticking a needle in your arm.

Any idea what levels we're talking about??

rebs

It's also dangerous to do... Part of these doping rules is for the health of riders.

Of how many doped up super humans that exist. There must still be a large number of lesser funded poor equiped riders that try to do it on the cheap and get it ride. Riccio screwed up doing this I remember recently. Plenty of others must have gone wrong also. Some causing the nasty side effect of death also....

shockedsoshocked

Altitude doesn't always produce a response, and there are drawbacks to training at altitude.

Blood doping however, whether it's autologous or through EPO is guaranteed to work without the negative effects of altitude.

rick_chasey

natrix wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Scale.

Going at altitude is far less effective than sticking a needle in your arm.

Any idea what levels we're talking about??

http://inrng.com/2012/06/the-altitude-tent/

Take a look here.

afx237vi

Who was the rider a year or two back who talked about some doctor attempting to transfuse a partially congealed bag 'o blood?

Edit: Sinkewitz - http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 414-2.html

rick_chasey

afx237vi wrote:

Who was the rider a year or two back who talked about some doctor attempting to transfuse a partially congealed bag 'o blood?

No idea, but Ricco is a more obvious choice of example.

afx237vi

Rick Chasey wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Who was the rider a year or two back who talked about some doctor attempting to transfuse a partially congealed bag 'o blood?

No idea, but Ricco is a more obvious choice of example.

Yeah, although playing devil's advocate, you could argue that legalising blood transfusions would stop riders putting their lives at risk with dodgy DIY efforts.

bompington

One trouble with legalising anything is that once you have created what you think is a level playing field on a new level, it's not going to be long before someone comes along to try to get a new advantage.

In general though, all sporting rules are arbitrary to some degree, some just have more coherence than others. I mean, it's fairly obvious that in a game called football you are restricted to using your feet, but then why allow the head but not the hands?

ocdupalais

bompington wrote:

I mean, it's fairly obvious that in a game called football you are restricted to using your feet, but then why allow the head but not the hands?

Anypartofthebodyexceptfromtheshouldersuptoandincludingthefingertipsball was a bit of mouthful?

iainf72

natrix wrote:

However, if you want to thicken up your blood to the same level by training at altitude, or using one of those fancy-pants tents then it seems to be OK./quote]

Those fancy pants tents will get you into trouble in Italy, and WADA were looking at banning them.

Blood transfusions aren't just a matter of "injecting some blood". It's usually quite a lot of blood and plasma. The effect is significant and not like training at altitude. If you train at altitude, you'll get a couple of percent more over time. Transfuse blood and you'll get a lot more very quickly.

As with all things doping, the methods just speed up something your body does anyway. EPO would give you more red blood cells too.

shockedsoshocked

iainf72 wrote:

natrix wrote:

However, if you want to thicken up your blood to the same level by training at altitude, or using one of those fancy-pants tents then it seems to be OK./quote]

Those fancy pants tents will get you into trouble in Italy, and WADA were looking at banning them.

Blood transfusions aren't just a matter of "injecting some blood". It's usually quite a lot of blood and plasma. The effect is significant and not like training at altitude. If you train at altitude, you'll get a couple of percent more over time. Transfuse blood and you'll get a lot more very quickly.

As with all things doping, the methods just speed up something your body does anyway. EPO would give you more red blood cells too.

Wasn't the usual method of choice spinning the blood and separating only the RBCs?

esafosfina

Don't really want to get embroiled in an ethics/morals debate here... as far as I know the primary reason given (or used to be) is the dangers to the rider him/herself. In 1984 a good deal of the US Olympic track team used spun-out blood transfusions that were stored in a mini-bar fridge, to put it bluntly it nearly cost a couple of them their lives... but it did produce results. Personally I see nothing wrong with using ones own blood, as long as it is still 'legal' (by which I mean no additives...) and it is done under strict medical supervision. I've seen the mess EPO did to many riders in the very early days of abuse, and it wasn't pretty! Just a thought...

cougie

Was it Ricco who nearly killed himself with old blood ?

And what about Vino and his team mate who had strange blood test results in the tour one year. Almost as if someone messed the blood bags up.

Success in sport shouldnt rely upon medical intervention. Surely everyone can see that training is legitimate - but messing around with your blood ???

natrix

Rick Chasey wrote:

http://inrng.com/2012/06/the-altitude-tent/

Take a look here.

Aha, a very interesting article which clarifies a few things, thanks for that

edhornby

I'd heard a story that Kohl, Rasmussen and one of the italian riders clubbed together to buy a blood spinner !! allegedly it is safer now that people have learnt to transfuse out and replace with saline or something like that, the danger being the viscosity of blood during sleeping...

nferrar

+ even if legalised and done under medical supervision it's still not 100% safe but you've now changed the rules so every rider needs to do it in order to be competitive. And how often would you limit it to (if at all), imagine how much it would suck as a rider if they have to do a blood transfusion every evening during a grand tour just to remain competitive.

shockedsoshocked

cougie wrote:

Success in sport shouldnt rely upon medical intervention. Surely everyone can see that training is legitimate - but messing around with your blood ???

It shouldn't, but imagine being on the cusp of a pro-contract. You've got a wife, kids, a house, car etc. It's not all about success, sometimes just paying the bills. Unfortunately it's not black and white.