life expectancy

Monkeypump

Rolf F wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

Could we re-name this the "Sweeping Generalisations, Personal Opinion and Absolutely No Evidence" thread?

This is an internet forum so what would you expect?! Besides - are you seriously implying that there is something wrong with sweeping generalisations? I'm sure every statement could be qualified with eg Amy Winehouse was very well off but died young and my old grandad hadn't a brass farthing to his name but lived to 145 but it would get pretty tedious and not add anything to the discussion!

Anyway, isn't the weather unseasonably crap today? Except that in a temperate climate you'd expect this sort of variation so there's nothing unseasonable about it at all. And of course, I'm only talking about the weather in Yorkshire. The weather may be different elsewhere.

"The stupid just eat pies" - an insightful commentary on the correlation between intelligence and nutritional intake. Are you kidding me? :roll:

El Gordo

Junk food versus fresh food is only part of the issue though (and I suspect not a big part). Stuff like smoking, heavy drinking, lack of exercise, living in worse conditions, accesability to health care all make a difference and also correlate to low income.

Frank the tank

There are loads of factors which play a part in ones life expectancy.

Firstly your personal genes.
Your education.
Your environment.
Wealth.
With the exception of your genes the others are interwoven. But, in relation to the OP it's no big shock GENERALLY, wealthy people live longer than the less well off.

jordan_217

CambsNewbie wrote:

I read somewhere that some schools are having to teach kids how to use a knife and fork! What chance have we got getting them to learn how to eat balanced nutritious meals at home?

My oldest Son starts school in September (he'll be 5), we recently went to a parents info and induction evening and were shocked that one of the Teachers stated that they will not change nappies or physically feed children :shock: Apparently, some parents from last years intake of new starters found that a problem.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to breed!

Monkeypump

CambsNewbie wrote:

I read somewhere that some schools are having to teach kids how to use a knife and fork! What chance have we got getting them to learn how to eat balanced nutritious meals at home?

I worry that ignorance has gone too far, and it will be nearly impossible to teach kids good eating/cooking habits on a national level. Perhaps it has to come from the parents first.

Sensible eating, cooking skills, seasonal and local availability of produce, provenance of meat - most kids these days don't have a clue. I admire Jamie, Hugh and all the others for trying, but it's not reinforced at home.

Too often cheap eating seems to be something from the freezers at Iceland, rather than a well thought out meal using stock cupboard staples and a few fresh ingredients.

rolf_f

Monkeypump wrote:

"The stupid just eat pies" - an insightful commentary on the correlation between intelligence and nutritional intake. Are you kidding me? :roll:

Not really though I hardly phrased it in the most scientific way. Do you really think that there is no correlation between intelligence and people who, for example eat at McDonalds every day (and many do) and those who like a bit of salad? How many times do you hear people say that they don't eat veg - at all? Mostly, these are not the clever people. Yes - it is a sweeping generalisation. Of course it is - it has to be. The outliers actually don't matter as the premise of the thread is a (valid) generalisation anyway.

Honestly, if you want to dig out some evidence that says otherwise (though I hope you'd do it without bias) then I'd be interested. I won't because to me this is just a random internet thread on which I'm expressing an opinion to while away a few minutes whilst waiting for something else to happen. I'm not interested enough to trawl for real data but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

daviesee

El Gordo wrote:

Junk food versus fresh food is only part of the issue though (and I suspect not a big part). Stuff like smoking, heavy drinking, lack of exercise, living in worse conditions, accesability to health care all make a difference and also correlate to low income.

Interesting side track.
Why is it that those who can least afford it are alledgedly the biggest smokers and drinkers?
I say alledgedly because while I may drink a lesser quantity I probably spend more on quality.

Obvious answer - To escape the drudgery. Well there are lots of free activities that could do that. Comes down to personal motivation again. And upbringing.

Frank the tank

Loads of similar threads end up discussing diet and having cheap pots at people who are less well off and their life style choices. There are too many over-simplifications/generalisations (I've been guilty of them, think we all have),thing is there are many factors which have an influence on LE.

People on here always seem to talk about obese people eating MacD's and smoking and drinking. Don't think many ever comment on people that become obese through fine dining, drinking fine wines and spirits and smoking Havana cigars. Well I'll tell ya, when they're both dead lying naked on the morticians slab they look exactly the same. Probably only their ages will differ but they've both abused their bodies in the same manner.

daviesee

Frank the tank wrote:

Loads of similar threads end up discussing diet and having cheap pots at people who are less well off and their life style choices. There are too many over-simplifications/generalisations (I've been guilty of them, think we all have),thing is there are many factors which have an influence on LE.

People on here always seem to talk about obese people eating MacD's and smoking and drinking. Don't think many ever comment on people that become obese through fine dining, drinking fine wines and spirits and smoking Havana cigars. Well I'll tell ya, when they're both dead lying naked on the morticians slab they look exactly the same. Probably only their ages will differ but they've both abused their bodies in the same manner.

True.
But the OP disagrees with your scenario.
"Heard on Radio 4 this morning in a discussion about Doctor's pensions (poor hard up doctors) that people who earn more live longer by a few years than people who earn less."
Maybe the emphasis should be on few years.

Anonymous

Frank the tank wrote:

people that become obese through fine dining, drinking fine wines and spirits and smoking Havana cigars

is there a finer way to go? I can't think of one myself.

jordan_217

daviesee wrote:

......Comes down to personal motivation again. And upbringing.

Bingo!

IME intelligence and class has FA to do with it. That is just a bigotted ignorance.

I'm the only person in my team/department who doesn't have a degree, I didn't even finish school but I'm the only person in my team who's probably seen his own gentleman sausage in the last five years and the only bloke who doesn't need a sports bra .

We get fresh fruit delivered every day and also have access to free pot noodles, pringles, biscuits etc. I guarantee that by 1000 I'll go to the bin to dispose of my banana skin/orange peel/etc and it will be full of empty junk food wrappers.

Most of the people are also very unhygenic, rude and lack common sense. The majority also have parents whose christian name is prefixed by 'Doctor'.

Daz555

Not at all surprising that the relatively well off and relatively well educated live longer than the poor and stupid.

ShutUpLegs

Pro racers live 17 percent longer than average general population

Frank the tank

Daz555 wrote:

Not at all surprising that the relatively well off and relatively well educated live longer than the poor and stupid.

I agree.

Posters on here get hung up (not suprisingly on diet/exercise etc). What about the effects of your employment.

I'm sure being a manual worker,working shifts,living in a relatively poor district with my employment under constant threat. Work related stress (the rat race in general) has a derogatory effect to life expectancy. I'm by no means unique and in some ways this is a none debate because wealthier people generally live longer.

bompington

jordan_217 wrote:

I'm the only person in my team/department who doesn't have a degree, I didn't even finish school but I'm the only person in my team who's probably seen his own gentleman sausage in the last five years and the only bloke who doesn't need a sports bra .

We get fresh fruit delivered every day and also have access to free pot noodles, pringles, biscuits etc. I guarantee that by 1000 I'll go to the bin to dispose of my banana skin/orange peel/etc and it will be full of empty junk food wrappers.

Most of the people are also very unhygenic, rude and lack common sense. The majority also have parents whose christian name is prefixed by 'Doctor'.

Shame, really, all these researchers wasting so much time on the fiddly business of setting up long-term, randomised, double-blind trials when they could just nip round to your office to get the picture :roll:

MattC59

Can I make a suggestion that Sheriff Chasey is renamed Chef Chasey ?

rick_chasey

Ron Stuart

A lot of the not so well off in this country as is the case in America haven't got the sense to realise that they are victims of the food industries influence in pumping as many as they can find full of addictive and unhealthy food with the prime objective of increasing profit. The more we are addicted to fats, sugar and salt the more there annual turn over increases. The majority of higher earners have not only got the sense to make a decent income but they in a lot of case have the sense to live and eat in a much healthier way.
We as a nation are not properly protected from the food industries developments to fool the public into eating purely for business gain our successive governments have sold out to these mega industries.
Watch this http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k0fs0 episode 2 on tonight. :shock:

finchy

MattC59 wrote:

Can I make a suggestion that Sheriff Chasey is renamed Chef Chasey ?

Any chef spending that much on ingredients for a Thai chicken curry would be kicked out of the door faster than one of Tony Jaa's opponents.

team47b

Many have said that fresh herbs are expensive, but grown from seed in pots or even window boxes is a simple cheap enhancement to any diet and 'gardening' is not that difficult, there are a few experts on here apparently.

MattC59

johnfinch wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Can I make a suggestion that Sheriff Chasey is renamed Chef Chasey ?

Any chef spending that much on ingredients for a Thai chicken curry would be kicked out of the door faster than one of Tony Jaa's opponents.

But a professional Chef wouldn't be buying from the local supermarket.

mattshrops

I think that education about nutrition has been removed from general education. I know plenty of people with "better" jobs than me and also "better" educated(judging by societies normal view of better) But these same people seem to know absolutely F all about food and nutrition, and i think they dont really beleive that it matters- apart from the direct effects of becoming fat.
Have to agree that there are an awful lot of multinational companies who are making a massive pile of money from attempting to poison the population. Sounds a bit extreme? Nah afraid not. money is god(thats where your "better" jobs come in) No government in the west has the balls to take on the food industry.Very sad.

finchy

MattC59 wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Can I make a suggestion that Sheriff Chasey is renamed Chef Chasey ?

Any chef spending that much on ingredients for a Thai chicken curry would be kicked out of the door faster than one of Tony Jaa's opponents.

But a professional Chef wouldn't be buying from the local supermarket.

No, but even an amateur could make that curry more cheaply than Rick.

Rick, word of advice - get yourself in co-op. Free range chicken is often £5 for 2 boxes of 3 breasts. That's 6 breasts for £5, which will knock a couple of pounds of your meal straightaway. Get yourself down to a market rather than supermarket. Seeing as your in London, I'm sure you'll be able to find all the herbs and spices more cheaply as well.

jim453

Rick Chasey wrote:

daviesee wrote:

With refererence your post above - a parent should teach you to be independent for leaving the nest. This includes cooking.

They're obviously not though, so the state should step in.

Also, speaking of food at school, they should sort out school dinners.

I'll sound like Jamie but eating well means you perform better. Simple as. In my school, which I reckon was pretty typical, you could work out who was poor and who wasn't by seeing who stood in the queue for school dinners (to get pizza and chips) and those who had packed lunches.

Surely that'd be another way to get people to learn to eat stuff a little more adventurous?

Those lunch times must've flown by Richard. What could be more enjoyable than spotting poor people in the dinner queue whilst nibbling your pastrami and gherkin ciabatta, obviously being careful not to be late for the the debating club. You weren't on the football team were you?

Mr_Cellophane

Rick Chasey wrote:

Fresh food is surprisingly expensive compared to the processed alternative.

Unless you grow your own. Where did most allotments used to be ? Around council estates !

rick_chasey

jim453 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

daviesee wrote:

With refererence your post above - a parent should teach you to be independent for leaving the nest. This includes cooking.

They're obviously not though, so the state should step in.

Also, speaking of food at school, they should sort out school dinners.

I'll sound like Jamie but eating well means you perform better. Simple as. In my school, which I reckon was pretty typical, you could work out who was poor and who wasn't by seeing who stood in the queue for school dinners (to get pizza and chips) and those who had packed lunches.

Surely that'd be another way to get people to learn to eat stuff a little more adventurous?

Those lunch times must've flown by Richard. What could be more enjoyable than spotting poor people in the dinner queue whilst nibbling your pastrami and gherkin ciabatta, obviously being careful not to be late for the the debating club. You weren't on the football team were you?

It was more a comment that it's unfortunate those with lower incomes are denied the opportunity by the school to eat a nutritious lunch. :roll:

rick_chasey

Mr_Cellophane wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Fresh food is surprisingly expensive compared to the processed alternative.

Unless you grow your own. Where did most allotments used to be ? Around council estates !

Aren't there ENORMOUS queues for allotments nowadays?

I can imagine liking the idea of growing my own stuff when I'm older - but the likelihood of me having a garden is pretty remote.

daviesee

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aren't there ENORMOUS queues for allotments nowadays?

I can imagine liking the idea of growing my own stuff when I'm older - but the likelihood of me having a garden is pretty remote.

Most of the stuff you would grow is fairly cheap to buy anyway.
The big savings are in the overpriced herbs etc which can be grown easilly in pots, need little maintenance and taste a lot better fresh.

Is this merging into the gardening thread?

rick_chasey

daviesee wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aren't there ENORMOUS queues for allotments nowadays?

I can imagine liking the idea of growing my own stuff when I'm older - but the likelihood of me having a garden is pretty remote.

Most of the stuff you would grow is fairly cheap to buy anyway.
The big savings are in the overpriced herbs etc which can be grown easilly in pots, need little maintenance and taste a lot better fresh.

Is this merging into the gardening thread?

True true. You'd have to grow a lot though. I buy those smaller plants from the supermarket and I can easily demolish an entire plant in one meal.

Pep

Here some mains of our favourites:

Penne (£1.5/Kg) tomatoes (£4/Kg) with toasted cashew nuts (£9/Kg) and ragu of white fish (£7/Kg) and green peas (£2/Kg)

Spaghetti with tin sardines and boiled broccoli, with chilly and fried garlic

Rigatoni bolognese.

Shepherd's pie with oven roasted vegg.

Baked mackerel with mashed potatoes and steamed veg.

Baked salmon with cous-cous and oven veg, or steamed veg (carrot, cauliflower, spinach, peas, beans, broccoli).

Risotto (£3/Kg) with toasted cashew nuts (£9/Kg), chopped spinach (£2/Kg), a little diced bacon (£6/Kg).

Seafood risotto (£3/Kg for rice, stock: free), prawns (£10/Kg), green peas (£2/Kg), herbs


Any crap "finest" ready meal, or takeaway, would much much more. Not to speak quality, taste, health, fun.