exploding USTs

TimB34

Crest rims have a lower side wall than standard (or UST) rims.

Putting a split BMX tube under the tyre could well be pushing the bead too high up, so when it's pumped up hard it'll pop over the edge.

The OP really needs to try without the BMX tube and just two turns of Stans yellow tape (or the cheaper blue Roval tape) and a well-fitting valve.

YeehaaMcgee

Do you reckon that'll work? Surely if the bead can pop off the rim at all, then it's always at a serious risk of exploding.

leaflite

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Do you reckon that'll work? Surely if the bead can pop off the rim at all, then it's always at a serious risk of exploding.

Doesnt the bead need to be in the stans "bead hook" though? If it isnt, I can see why it could quite easily blow off

bluechair84

I was also thinking that it was the BMX rimstrip that was causing conflict with the bead. But, as the ghetto options all gradually fail, so money shall be spent on getting the proper stuff. First to have arrived today is proper Stan's valve cores. I'll remove the tube and I suspect my explosions will be cured. Then, let's see just how airtight a few layers of gaffa tape is... (I'll be trying with the LUSTs first of all before I try again to seal my preferred Rubber Queens).

Mccraque

My point is that owning a crest rim means you don't need to go ghetto. It should work with just a standard tyre and rimstrip

bennett_346

Let us know if you sort it either way mate!

bluechair84

bennett_346 wrote:

Let us know if you sort it either way mate!

I'll be back, I've got high hopes fort he highrollers and rim specific valve core

allthegearnoidea

good mate of mine tried the ghetto version pon his rims and had the same issue, looking at it, the bmx tube was a very thick one, (20" for tighter fit/seal) seems a bit hit and miss, better off with a cheap bmx tube of thin rubber otherwise the bead wont quite hook on properly and as youve been finding and my mate, Big Bangs!!
quite a few of the Ghetto threads from all over the planet suggest 'Gorilla tape' or Duck tape to us! 2 complete loops of the rim, tyre and sealant, best off seating the tyre first and then popping the core out the valve and pouring the sealant through the valve, ive bene on tubeless for the past 18 months, once had pressure issue on the back and due to clumsyness sheared the valve top off when topping up with pressure (american classic valves, minimal metal left due to weight saving = very weak), had to put a tube in, the bike felt So different! only osmehting like 100g heavier on the back end but was unbeleivable in the difference it felt,
i currently run one tubeless tyre and one non tubeless, both the same model of tyre, had no issue with either other than my own stupidity when topping up the rear, didnt do it through the valve, couldnt get the bugger back seated with the track pump, ended up taking it off, cleaning it all up etc. 5 mins up a mates unit with a Big compressor and it popped back, no idea why it happened so put it down to the idiot at the end of the pump!!!!
when running tubes i found i had to run 45psi+ on some occasions to avoid pinching (100kg rider + blunderbus style of riding!!) on the aggresive riding, which resulted in a very bouncy ride on the normal stuff!! can run the tubeless at 20psi!!
if it works, its great, like most things, if not its a pain in the but!!

YeehaaMcgee

The "proper" Stan's rim strips are far thicker than any innertube I've seen though, and far tougher.
I'm still watching this thread with one cautious eye, because, call it ignorance, or hard headedness, but I'm pretty sure I'm not completely done with tubeless... yet.

cooldad

I'd stick with ignorance in your case.

allthegearnoidea

But the Proper Stans strips Don't cover the edges of the rim, they cover the spoke holes and seal around them leaving the rim walls free?? Where as the tuube split ghetto stylee covers all of it hence the tyres popping off,

YeehaaMcgee

From notubes.com

The rubber rim strip creates a second bead lock between the tire bead and the bottom of the rim. This prevents the tire from loosing air when a force on the side of the tire pushes it away from the sidewall of the rim.

Which suggests that they would indeed push the tyre outwards, the same way as the thick BMX innertube did.

like this...


That's my understanding of it anyway. But, I was admittedly never very successful with tubeless

allthegearnoidea

The BMx tube basis though is cut Above the bead edge on the rim as suggested that you fold it out over the rim, fit and inflate the tyre, trim close to the edge of the rim as you can, thus tube covering the rim inner edge and tyre not able to grip on!??!

YeehaaMcgee

The tyre shouldn't have to grip on though, the bead shouldn't be capable of fitting over the rim without dropping a section of it into the inner well.
I R confuzed

386ka

Why not you just try with Stan's yellow tape, as the suggested method from Stan's for those rims?!

bluechair84

Hmm, the BMX tube i was using was a 24"... I think that was too slack to be honest. So that's possibly my first ghetto mistake. The premise of folding the tube outside of the rim, fitting the tyre and then trimming the tube back to the bead helps non ust tyres seal at the rim/tyre junction. I lost most of my pressure at the bead when attempting with RQs because I'd tried to make a 'rim tape' out of the tube rather than trim it down to the outside of the rim. UST tyres I'm beginning to realise are designed not to have this problem, so tighter at the bead. And because it was the LUSTs which blew off, they theoretically didn't need the tube which was actually unsealing the tyre by stopping it from seating properly.

mrmonkfinger

bluechair84 wrote:

Because LUST is what they use on their UST tyres

Fair dinkum, I take it back.

nferrar

HR LUSTs have extremely tight beads IME, they are by far the hardest tyre I've ever fitted on my Flows (easy to inflate but a pig to get on). The problem isn't the tyre it YOU! Stop faffing about with ghetto FFS and use Stan's yellow rim tape, it's not fricking rocket science...

bluechair84

Jeez, people are getting really testy over a discussion about why tyres blow off rims and how best to approach a ghetto setup. Anyway, nferrar, I just spoke to your other half and she agrees she needs to be properly satisfied, and she'll buy some yellow tape for me if I can arrange a night in with her and Yeehaa.
Seriously, you can't make assumptions on other people's budgets. I put just under 2/3s of my wage into savings but the last two months I haven't been able to so, if I can do it with gaffa tape from the shed I will.

386ka wrote:

Why not you just try with Stan's yellow tape, as the suggested method from Stan's for those rims?!

If I can't do it on the cheap, I'll most certainly do so. I think that between gaffa on the rim, the correct valve which I now have and the HRs, I should be good to go.

mrmonkfinger

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

The tyre shouldn't have to grip on though, the bead shouldn't be capable of fitting over the rim without dropping a section of it into the inner well.
I R confuzed

I don't think you are. I think the tube helps to stop the bead dropping down into the well as well as slipping up off the rim.

bluechair84

One of the things I found with the HRs is the bead is so tight that it needs to be dropped into the well to get it on. The BMX tube was inhibiting this so it was a ruddy 'mare to work with.

stu8975

As mentioned many times, you need yellow tape/valve/sealant...that is it!

Ghetto/rimstrips are for converting NON tubeless set ups/products to work as tubeless.

The tyre bead is big prevented from seating in to the rim hook by the ghetto tube you are using, thus causing it to blow of the rim when you inflate it.....simples really.

It does tell you all the info you need on the Notubes site.
http://www.notubes.com/help_center_rim_strips.aspx

steelie600

mrmonkfinger wrote:

steelie600 wrote:

bead lock tyres NOW we'd be in business!!

what, like UST? or tubeless ready?

NO NO like this

Foams

Bead or Rimlocks

Now tell me that those two combined is not the perfect solution??

mrmonkfinger

steelie600 wrote:

Now tell me that those two combined is not the perfect solution??

ok, gotcha...

I'll say yes - providing perfect doesn't have to include "light"

Mccraque

This

stu8975 wrote:

As mentioned many times, you need yellow tape/valve/sealant...that is it!

Ghetto/rimstrips are for converting NON tubeless set ups/products to work as tubeless.

and this -

386ka wrote:

Why not you just try with Stan's yellow tape, as the suggested method from Stan's for those rims?!

Not this -

bluechair84 wrote:

the BMX tube i was using was a 24"... I

If you mention BMX Tubes and Stans NO TUBES (and certainly no BMX Tubes) rims again, I am going to come over and crimp one off in your cycle shoe!

bluechair84 wrote:

Seriously, you can't make assumptions on other people's budgets. I put just under 2/3s of my wage into savings but the last two months I haven't been able to so, if I can do it with gaffa tape from the shed I will.

Your budget would be considerably bigger if you stopped wasting money on things (tubes) for ghetto set ups...when you have a perfectly good Stans NO TUBE rim designed for running tyres with NO TUBES.

I expect another post shortly - ignoring all the advice given in the thread and the difficulty of getting a UST tyre to fit with a botch job involving a BMX tube.

bluechair84

Yes, hello again. The BMX tube (ubiquitous I suppose) I had kicking about in the garage, along with gaffa tape so prior to starting the only thing I'd bought was sealant for the Rubber Queens which didn't seal. I've since ordered valve cores and will order new bits as I'm finding the bodge alternative isn't working. I might very well come to yellow tape, but I'm trying what I have first of all.

nferrar

Well good luck and hopefully your front tyre won't roll off the rim the first time you push it hard through a corner, else you'll be wondering why you didn't just buy the yellow tape (it's like a tenner isn't it?!). You're trying to ghetto something that's already modified over a standard rim, doing it ghetto with a BMX tube was always about on a conventional rim with different sidewalls to a notube's rim. You really want to risk yourself riding a badly bodged solution?...

mrmonkfinger

bluechair84 wrote:

the only thing I'd bought was sealant for the Rubber Queens which didn't seal

bluechair84 wrote:

the Rubber Queens just bubbled sealant out of the walls for 12 hours without ever sealing

I just noticed this.

I did a ghetto conversion on a Tioga Red Phoenix, which had the most porous sidewalls ever. It took nearly two weeks to seal completely and hold pressure. But eventually, it did seal, and worked fine afterwards...

...until I tore a 3" long hole in the sidewall. Stans did not seal that one.

bennett_346

I bet a tube and tyre boot would have sealed it

bluechair84

So a bit more sealant and a bit more time for the RQs then... I've a few tyres to experiment with, bit at a time. I'll try some non UST tyres after the Highrollers and see if I can them sealed. Cheers.

Update, I can get the LUSTs + gaffa tape + valve cores up to pressure, but it is leaking air from around the valve core. I'm pretty sure there's no tape interfearing with it but I'm going to have a closer look this weekend.