World Champs Team Size

Pross
Pross Posts: 43,530
edited June 2012 in Pro race
Can someone remind me how a country qualifies extra riders for their world's team? Is it the number of riders with World Tour (or whatever they are calling it these days) points up to the maximum amount? If so, have we gained two extra places in the last 2 days from Swift and Cummings?

Comments

  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    Think the points Wiggins has picks up alone will almost qualify a full team.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Pross wrote:
    Can someone remind me how a country qualifies extra riders for their world's team? Is it the number of riders with World Tour (or whatever they are calling it these days) points up to the maximum amount? If so, have we gained two extra places in the last 2 days from Swift and Cummings?

    Its based on relative country rankings (based on UCI Points). Top 6 or so get 9 riders each, the next few get less, all the way down the bottom feeders who get to enter one rider each.

    Britain, currently ranked 5th should be entitled to a the full 9 riders if they stay there until year end, but it will change quite a bit before the cut off date for the World Championships. Which is unfortunate for Ireland as up until a couple of weeks it stood above France and still stands above Germany, Denmark, Kazakhstan and Luxembourg.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    UCI Rule 9.2.010.1
    The following nations will qualify for the 2012 Road World Championships, men elite road
    race:
    1. The 10 first countries in UCI WorldTour classification by nation on 15 August 2012:
    each country may enter 14 riders, with 9 to start. However, a nation with fewer than 9
    riders classified in the individual UCI WorldTour ranking on 15 August 2012 shall start
    the number of riders that are classified. A nation with fewer than 6 riders classified in
    the UCI WorldTour ranking will, nonetheless, start 6 riders (* and **).

    So if GB come in the top 10 (almost certain) they will get as many riders as have scored a WT point, up to a maximum of nine. Currently five (Cavendish, Wiggins, Thomas, Swift and Froome) have at least one point.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    rebs wrote:
    Think the points Wiggins has picks up alone will almost qualify a full team.

    I think you get up to 9 riders if you are ranked in the top 10 nations on the UCI points system but you can only take more than 6 if you have that many riders in the individual world tour rankings on a certain date?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,570
    According to received opinion on here, we only need to send Tiernan-Locke and he'll win it singlehandedly.
  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    It cant be on WT points. Surely that will take out the chances of (for example) JTL from being interted into the World road race as he doesn't ride many/if any WT races. I thought conti teams with conti points also go towards the rankings?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    rebs wrote:
    It cant be on WT points. Surely that will take out the chances of (for example) JTL from being interted into the World road race as he doesn't ride many/if any WT races. I thought conti teams with conti points also go towards the rankings?

    If five riders have points, you qualify five riders, but you don't have to pick those same five riders.

    Last year, Swift and Blythe had points, but Stannard and Hunt rode instead of them.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    RichN95 wrote:
    UCI Rule 9.2.010.1
    The following nations will qualify for the 2012 Road World Championships, men elite road
    race:
    1. The 10 first countries in UCI WorldTour classification by nation on 15 August 2012:
    each country may enter 14 riders, with 9 to start. However, a nation with fewer than 9
    riders classified in the individual UCI WorldTour ranking on 15 August 2012 shall start
    the number of riders that are classified. A nation with fewer than 6 riders classified in
    the UCI WorldTour ranking will, nonetheless, start 6 riders (* and **).

    So if GB come in the top 10 (almost certain) they will get as many riders as have scored a WT point, up to a maximum of nine. Currently five (Cavendish, Wiggins, Thomas, Swift and Froome) have at least one point.

    Just found it thanks. No points for Cummings coming 10th yesterday? No that it matters much as we would still only have 6 riders whichever way. Can anyone see us picking up more places? Slight chance of Millar getting points in a TT or break, Cummings in a break. Does Blythe ride many World Tour events? Dowsett? Kennaugh? I can't see us getting more than 6 at that rate but then I don't think we have any realistic opportunities for a winner this year. Froome or Cummings are probably the best hopes.
  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    But Stanard had points also (Tour of Poland etc) cant think where Hunt qualified for WT points but he must have sprinted for 6th somewhere.

    That's one of the rules. You need WT points to race the Worlds? But if that is the case how are riders from mainly Asia and Africa qualifying riders?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    Pross wrote:
    No points for Cummings coming 10th yesterday?

    Just the top 5 in stages (in all stage races)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    rebs wrote:
    But Stanard had points also (Tour of Poland etc) cant think where Hunt qualified for WT points but he must have sprinted for 6th somewhere.

    That's one of the rules. You need WT points to race the Worlds? But if that is the case how are riders from mainly Asia and Africa qualifying riders?

    It's all explained here http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTkzNg&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NjY2OTc&LangId=1

    The World Tour points just determines whether you can take up your full allocation.
  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    Cool, thanks!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    On a related topic, the British Olympic team gets announced at 1.30 today.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    Actually, looking at that it may be possible that we could qualify 9 riders by being in the top 6 nations in the Europe Tour (currently 8th thanks mainly to JTL who is top in the individual rankings).
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,570
    @Pross - Blythe was riding the Tour of Switzerland but he was dnf yesterday I think.

    I think the chances of GB increasing the size of the team from 5 or 6 are slim given that most of the riders you'd expect to score points, like Thomas, Kennaugh et al, are aiming at the Olympics.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,259
    andyp wrote:
    I think the chances of GB increasing the size of the team from 5 or 6 are slim given that most of the riders you'd expect to score points, like Thomas, Kennaugh et al, are aiming at the Olympics.

    Thomas has already got points - a TT win in Romandie and two second places at the Giro.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Pross wrote:
    Actually, looking at that it may be possible that we could qualify 9 riders by being in the top 6 nations in the Europe Tour (currently 8th thanks mainly to JTL who is top in the individual rankings).

    Does it matter? Or do you seriously think JTL could win? 'cos I really can't see there being any realistic GBR contenders on that course.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    andyp wrote:
    @Pross - Blythe was riding the Tour of Switzerland but he was dnf yesterday I think.

    I think the chances of GB increasing the size of the team from 5 or 6 are slim given that most of the riders you'd expect to score points, like Thomas, Kennaugh et al, are aiming at the Olympics.

    The Europe Tour looks the best bet if Downing and JTL can get in a few races.
  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    JTL has no chance of winning. But it'll be nice to see GB try to win a race they have no favorites for. I always like an underdog! :P
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    I seriously think JTL can win. Of course it's unlikely, but he's a genuine outside contender. Surely it's more likely than e.g. Freire when he won it for the first time. But team size is not relevant to his chances, which would come through a surprise attack and exploitation of people underestimating him. Whether GB have 6 riders or 9, they need to stay off the front on that course.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    jibberjim wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Actually, looking at that it may be possible that we could qualify 9 riders by being in the top 6 nations in the Europe Tour (currently 8th thanks mainly to JTL who is top in the individual rankings).

    Does it matter? Or do you seriously think JTL could win? 'cos I really can't see there being any realistic GBR contenders on that course.

    I've made that point myself in one of my earlier posts. Froome or Cummings would be the best chances but they are still big outsiders. We still don't seem to produce riders capable of winning hilly races, even those like the Ardennes where the hills are similar to those we have in parts of the UK. I think once JTL moves to Sky and gets into more top quality races he may be able to compete in that type of race but definately not this year, I doubt he's ever raced over the distance of a World Champs.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,570
    I remembered something whilst out riding last night, I think GB get an additional place for having the defending champion so could possibly have ten riders on the start line.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,530
    andyp wrote:
    I remembered something whilst out riding last night, I think GB get an additional place for having the defending champion so could possibly have ten riders on the start line.

    Didn't see that anywhere but the defending champion (and defending Olympic champion in the first year after winning) gets to ride if his nation fails to qualify through the other routes (which is highly unlikely to happen!).
  • ruswilks
    ruswilks Posts: 72
    Pross wrote:
    jibberjim wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Actually, looking at that it may be possible that we could qualify 9 riders by being in the top 6 nations in the Europe Tour (currently 8th thanks mainly to JTL who is top in the individual rankings).

    Does it matter? Or do you seriously think JTL could win? 'cos I really can't see there being any realistic GBR contenders on that course.

    I've made that point myself in one of my earlier posts. Froome or Cummings would be the best chances but they are still big outsiders. We still don't seem to produce riders capable of winning hilly races, even those like the Ardennes where the hills are similar to those we have in parts of the UK. I think once JTL moves to Sky and gets into more top quality races he may be able to compete in that type of race but definitely not this year, I doubt he's ever raced over the distance of a World Champs.

    Pete Kennaugh has talked about the Ardennes classics a few times as an aim for later in his career once he's finished riding in circles. Obviously no good for this year's WC but maybe a couple of seasons down the line...
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Pross wrote:
    No points for Cummings coming 10th yesterday?

    What stage did Steve get 10th ? I must have missed that ?

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