Brand new avid elixir3 back brake rubbing

mikkybgs
mikkybgs Posts: 78
edited June 2012 in MTB workshop & tech
Hi,

Just got the new bike and the first thing I noticed was the back brake needed to be pulled a lot more before it bit the disc. Let's say three quarters of the way of the whole brake lever, opposed to the front one which bites as soon as you pull it.
In the first few minutes of me testing I got a puncture and I took the wheel off and repaired it. When I put it back on again I span the wheel and heard a slight rubbing sound coming from the pads. I'm not exactly sure if it was rubbing before.
The lever still needs to be pulled a lot before the pads stop the wheel despite the rubbing.
This is my first set of hydraulic disc brakes (avid elixir3) and I was wondering if there is a simple way of realigning the pads so they don't rub.
I also bought the bike mail order so I'm hoping there is something I could do opposed to sending it back at this point.

If anyone has any ideas or experience with this problem I'd really appreciate the input.
Thanks

Comments

  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    The pads need to bed in.

    Let them.

    Some slight rubbing is normal.

    The lever travel will settle down.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    Thanks for the help.

    Apologies for the question (as I said I'm a newbie to hydraulic) so is it a case that the brakes will effectively recalibrate themselves without any need for me to do anything?

    With my layman knowledge of them I thought I may need to put more fluid in them and also realign the brake pads.

    Coming from the V-brake school, the sound of the rubbing is driving me crazy and I thought it can't be a good thing and needs sorting.
  • coxy17
    coxy17 Posts: 401
    with avid you can move the pistons in to make the brakes feel better

    but i dont recommend doing this if your not confident working on them.

    you can bed the brakes in buy ring on the road and pulling your brakes on sharply then spraying water on the pads

    basiclly if you heat them up and cool them down fast you will bed them in faster
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    coxy17 wrote:
    with avid you can move the pistons in to make the brakes feel better

    but i dont recommend doing this if your not confident working on them.

    you can bed the brakes in buy ring on the road and pulling your brakes on sharply then spraying water on the pads

    basiclly if you heat them up and cool them down fast you will bed them in faster


    Again, apologies for the ignorance, but what exactly is bed them in?

    Once the pads are set in position from new how do they change with use, as per the using the method you suggested.
  • coxy17
    coxy17 Posts: 401
    your removing the top layer off the pad

    they are shine to start with and that wears off and the pad will get more powerfull
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    coxy17 wrote:
    your removing the top layer off the pad

    they are shine to start with and that wears off and the pad will get more powerfull

    Ah I see, thanks.

    And as for the fact I have to pull the brake leaver a lot more for the back brake, how exactly does the lever travel 'settle down'?
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Stick a rubber band around the lever and the grip (so the brake is on) and leave it overnight. Might sort it out.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    cooldad wrote:
    Stick a rubber band around the lever and the grip (so the brake is on) and leave it overnight. Might sort it out.

    I can't work out if you're being facetious or not....?
  • Oberdiah
    Oberdiah Posts: 25
    There is nothing wrong with them. They're new, they need bedding in as stated. A few hard stops will get them started (not sure about the water thing, never tried it). The fact is, there is a very tiny gap between the pad and the rotor/disc so the tiniest of adjustments (taking wheel on and off for example) may close that gap and cause the rub. Using the brakes will reset the gap naturally. If it's really noticeable i.e. wheel stops when turned by hand then obviously something is not seated properly (wheel) or has been bent (rotor/disc) As for the rear lever needing more travel before biting I think it's due to the length of the hose, more hydraulic fluid to move or something like that. It's the same with v brakes, longer cable on the rear, more stretch under tension. I'm not an expert by any means, just experience from owning both v and hydraulic brakes (Avid Elixir 5)
    2010 TREK 8000
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    mikkybgs wrote:
    cooldad wrote:
    Stick a rubber band around the lever and the grip (so the brake is on) and leave it overnight. Might sort it out.

    I can't work out if you're being facetious or not....?
    Nope, try it.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • heez29
    heez29 Posts: 612
    "coxy17 wrote:
    your removing the top layer off the pad

    they are shine to start with and that wears off and the pad will get more powerfull

    Actually bedding in is when the the disc gets part of the pad material onto its surface. Creates a larger friction force that way.
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

    Saves the hassle of sending it back to the shop when in fact it is just a matter of breaking the hog in.
  • growls
    growls Posts: 34
    Hi mate
    I have just bought a new Trek fuel ex7 with the same avids on it. I do know what you mean,especially with the back brake. It seems to have improved though with use. The stopping power is quite good, but not much better than my shimano's on my old hardtail, which actually had a more solid feel! The main issue i have got, is with the front rotor. When it is cold there is no friction at all but after a bit of hammer the disc warps with the heat and i can see it running out of true and rubbing the pads. The material must be defective in the rotor. Can't see it being the pads unless they are creating too much heat cos it gets proper hot!! Can't see an elastic band sorting that out.
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    cooldad wrote:
    mikkybgs wrote:
    cooldad wrote:
    Stick a rubber band around the lever and the grip (so the brake is on) and leave it overnight. Might sort it out.

    I can't work out if you're being facetious or not....?
    Nope, try it.

    I take it back, it worked. Unbelieveable. Thanks!
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    growls wrote:
    Hi mate
    I have just bought a new Trek fuel ex7 with the same avids on it. I do know what you mean,especially with the back brake. It seems to have improved though with use. The stopping power is quite good, but not much better than my shimano's on my old hardtail, which actually had a more solid feel! The main issue i have got, is with the front rotor. When it is cold there is no friction at all but after a bit of hammer the disc warps with the heat and i can see it running out of true and rubbing the pads. The material must be defective in the rotor. Can't see it being the pads unless they are creating too much heat cos it gets proper hot!! Can't see an elastic band sorting that out.

    Funnily enough the band trick has seemed to do something to reduce the amount I have to pull the brake. It's odd but with all the new technology it seems it is a lot harder to self-service, as in it's not just a matter of adjusting the pads. Also from what I've been reading hydraulic disc brakes take a good while to 'bed in', the manual which came with mine says 30-50k! So I guess just ride it and see how it goes. I didnt want to ride mine as I thought I may be damageing something with the rubbing but after reading the advice here I took her for a quick 5k spin last night and already the rubbing is subsiding (i also removed the wheel again and replaced).
    As for the rubber band trick, the only explanation I have is cooldad broke in to my house and repaired the brake in the night.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    all the rubber band has done is what using the brakes would have done. but without the bedding in.

    like I said at the start go use and they will come right.

    the more you play with them the longer it takes for them to come right.

    expect some rubbing every time you remove and refit the wheels. use the pad spacers when the wheels are out and do not pull the levers when there is nothing between the pads.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    nicklouse wrote:
    all the rubber band has done is what using the brakes would have done. but without the bedding in.

    like I said at the start go use and they will come right.

    the more you play with them the longer it takes for them to come right.

    expect some rubbing every time you remove and refit the wheels. use the pad spacers when the wheels are out and do not pull the levers when there is nothing between the pads.

    You mean I actually have to go and ride the thing? Nobody told me this......

    Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    mikkybgs wrote:
    Hi,

    Just got the new bike and the first thing I noticed was the back brake needed to be pulled a lot more before it bit the disc. Let's say three quarters of the way of the whole brake lever, opposed to the front one which bites as soon as you pull it.
    Sounds like the front one is the brake that needs looking at.
    My photos
  • Greer_
    Greer_ Posts: 1,716
    YeehaaMcgee wrote:
    mikkybgs wrote:
    Hi,

    Just got the new bike and the first thing I noticed was the back brake needed to be pulled a lot more before it bit the disc. Let's say three quarters of the way of the whole brake lever, opposed to the front one which bites as soon as you pull it.
    Sounds like the front one is the brake that needs looking at.

    Personal preference! I'd rather my brakes bit right away with a solid firm lever, sounds like you're the opposite! :wink:
    Orbea Alma Team Carbon - Strava -Specialized Allez Sport
  • YeehaaMcgee
    YeehaaMcgee Posts: 5,740
    It's pretty uncomfortable for the lever to bite immediately - leaves you with a stretched hand whilst trying to brake.
    My photos
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Not if your brakes have reach adjust. I like mine to bite quickly but have tiny hands. (I believe it's called compensation) (The hands I mean)
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • steelie600
    steelie600 Posts: 519
    there is an advantage to tiny hands y'know
    Idiot ^^^^^^^^^

    Ralph
  • Chunkers1980
    Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    Cheap crc gloves actually fit?
  • bennett_346
    bennett_346 Posts: 5,029
    Well if the OP is interested i just spent an hour tonight trying to change the bite point on my elixirs with success, but it does require a bleed kit. You simply bleed them as per the instructions but use a slightly thinner (very slightly thinner) bleed block instead of the actual one, advance the pistons onto it, then bleed it.

    This allows more fluid in the system than normal and thus when the pistons are pushed back fully and the pads and wheel put in, the bite point is changed to have much less slack/throw in the lever, so the lever only needs slight travel to start braking (you know what i mean).
  • mikkybgs
    mikkybgs Posts: 78
    bennett_346 wrote:
    Well if the OP is interested i just spent an hour tonight trying to change the bite point on my elixirs with success, but it does require a bleed kit. You simply bleed them as per the instructions but use a slightly thinner (very slightly thinner) bleed block instead of the actual one, advance the pistons onto it, then bleed it.

    This allows more fluid in the system than normal and thus when the pistons are pushed back fully and the pads and wheel put in, the bite point is changed to have much less slack/throw in the lever, so the lever only needs slight travel to start braking (you know what i mean).

    I am interested, thanks. I may not go tackling this for a while as I still want them to bed in, but this is what I'm talking about. It feels odd to have one with a much more aggressive bite and the other to be a lot slacker.

    As stated, I suppose it is down to personal preference and it's not like there isn't ANY play in the front brake, but it's a lot more responsive.

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