Hardtail for Natural Lakes riding . . .

LAUNCH69

Hi there,
After riding my 2008 Rockhopper for a while, I noticed that it had limitations (apart from the rider :oops:).
My riding buddy and I live in the NE and regularly try to ride in the lakes, on natural trails. He seems fine on his Enduro, the decents can be interestingly twitchy and rough on the 'hopper. :shock:
I have put tougher parts on it, but it has always been a little big for me(40mm stem and saddle fully forward on seatpost needed), and I was gently advised by forum members that I was trying to change it too much when I mentioned bigger forks/angle offset headcups etc.

Here are the specs:

http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/bikes/ ... pper#specs

I have added/changed:
40mm stem - to try and sort out reach issues
Haven Alu bars
Hope evo/flow wheels
Hope mono minis
Superstar Nano flat pedals
Kenda nevegal stickE front 2.35/ Maxxis Ardent Exo Rear 2.25

I now have enough pennies saved that I can buy a frame that both fits properly and is more progressive.
I have my eye on both a Cotic BFe and a carbon 456.

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/BFe


http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR456- ... ls___18_in

If I bought one of these I would be looking to transfer most components over and look to get some decent forks on finance.
So after this long ramble the main questions are:

In your opinion would one of these frames be suitable for Lakes riding (and maybe Scotland too)?
I will not be riding proper full on downhill but I will be looking to ride down the biggest hills I can find - Helvellyn is next.
Would it be totally overkill to put something like a Fox 36/ RS Lyrik on? If so, other recommendations?
One further concern is that the BFe has an old style headtube and would limit my choice of fork.
I appreciate any advice given. I understand that many will recommend full sus but I think it would probably take another 2/3 years of saving.
Cheers Si

Adotparker

Take a look at the Ragley Piglet or Ragley Blue Pig .......... if your pennies can stretch a bit more look at the Orange Crush........... I ride a 2012 Crush and it's a solid, quick bike ........ although the tapered headset could provide issues with fork selection! a Friend has the Carbon 456, looks nice, but a little to flexy and cheap looking for me......... :S

warpcow

LAUNCH69 wrote:

Would it be totally overkill to put something like a Fox 36/ RS Lyrik on? If so, other recommendations?
One further concern is that the BFe has an old style headtube and would limit my choice of fork.

BFe now has a 44mm headtube (and comes in an awesome green), so any steerer will work. Are you thinking about a 36/Lyrik for stiffness or extra travel? Personally I'd stick with around 140-150mm. You can always reduce a bigger fork or wait for next years 34mm stanchion forks (X-Fusion and Fox), which might be the best of both worlds.

peter413

I would personally go for the 456, I've had the steel one and absolutely loved it, flew everywhere and was a very good handling bike, never did anything unexpected to me. However, since you mention full sus have a proper think about it. I managed to get my Marin Wolf Ridge frame for about £250 used in good condition with a brand new headset and it's so much fun I had to sell the 456, just wasn't going to get used again.

I wouldn't worry about the headtube size. I don't know of any forks that aren't available in that size, doesn't mean there aren't any though.

LAUNCH69

Thanks for the replies,
I like the idea of the Bfe with the 44mm headtube, been googling for pictures but I can't find anything
The forks would hopefully be a one off purchase, something that could be transferred if a full sus ever became viable. I think I prefer the idea of a stiffer fork that I can reduce in travel, over a flexier one - I know that 150mm Foxs seem to be quite noodly.
Would you agree that any of these should be able to handle the lakes/Scotland then? I would like to be able to take my bike down the red run at Fort Bill with no worries at the back of my mind . . .

supersonic

I would have tp say the 456 carbon too, not only the cheapest, but the lightest by far.

LAUNCH69

2 votes for the carbon 456 then . . .
The only thing that concerns me is the recent negative review it received:

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... 9-12-46042

The previous review was much better:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... -pro-42704

Any opinions?

386ka

I have no experience with the frame, but if it's that stiff, then I would couple it with a Fox Float.

peter413

Don't worry about the strength of them, I've got a nutter of a mate who took his BFe down the Fort William DH, twice! And we did the red a few times as well which my 456 was fine for as was his BFe. TBH I was more worried taking it down Innerleithen DH tracks where there are lots of loose things like rocks that fly up and hit the bike whereas at Fort William it all tended to be stuck in the ground. My 456 survived a year of riding it regularly there with only some scratches and chips in the paint which is censored anyway.

LAUNCH69

Peter413 - thanks for your input.
What forks were you and your mate riding on?

peter413

I use 32 Floats and he was using 36 Talas'

LAUNCH69

Thanks,
people say that they don't want heavy gear on their bikes - looking at the weight of a 36, it is about the weight of the coil sprung tora on my hopper :shock:

angry_bird

Sod the weight, build big and bulky, it feels nice knowing you can just chuck a bike at stuff and it'll cope with it.

specialeyes

New bfe.

LAUNCH69

That picture has not helped!
I went to bed last night thinking 456c, now my heart says something else . .

On the subject of forks though - has anyone had experience of both travel adjust systems and their fixed counterparts. in your opinion is it best to have one fork length and deal with it in all situations or does talas/dual position genuinely offer a good option?

felix.london

I've been riding my (heavily upgraded) 2006 'hopper in the Alps for a year now (and going out most days) on everything from XC fireroads to bike park & DH. And I have to say it's performed perfectly and the more I ride it the more fun it seems to be.

Best major upgrades in order;

#1 - 120mm Reba RL

#2 - Reverb dropper post

#3 - ArchEX rims with DH Trizoid/Switch Evo hubs

holiver

How about the On One 456 Evo and Revelation RLT bundle for £500?

Adotparker

holiver wrote:

How about the On One 456 Evo and Revelation RLT bundle for £500?

Bang on for a budget build!! old skool looking hardtail.... top notch shox!! ........

supersonic

The frame weighs 2lbs more than the Carbon version, and is just £5 less. For those who think it is smoother, it aint.

lyonsdown

I wouldn't worry about the headtube size. I don't know of any forks that aren't available in that size, doesn't mean there aren't any though.

jairaj

another vote for a Carbon 456. I've had mine for about 3 weeks and am very impressed with it. very cheap at the moment and very light.

It has a nice slack head angle to make things easier when heading down steep technical stuff but also a long top tube and relatively low front end to help keep the front end down when climbing.

I haven't taken it on any epic rides yet but I've ridden round on it for 3/4 hours rides and don't feel the stiffness is an issue.

If you're on a tight budget then a standard 456 will be OK but I find it very heavy. If you can afford more then go for a the carbon version. Its stupidly light for the amount of abuse it can handle.

DodgeT

Another C456 vote here. Had mine built up for a month or so and have hardly touched the enduro since.
Mines got 150mm fixed travel revs, best way to go and handles anything you chuck at it.
This is it, although has a reverb now. To add, it is also very comfy, not skittish or harsh at all, it really feels like you have some "bounce" on the back end when you need it. My mate also said the same thing about it and he normally rides a FS too.
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LAUNCH69

The c456 does look good especially when the frame weighs in at 3.3 pounds compared to 5.4 pounds for the BFe. . .
That weight difference alone could balance out a big,stiff fork . . . .
However I am still in 2 minds, so I have emailed Cotic for details of the new version.

passout

I used to ride my rigid in the lakes for years but these days i'd say 120mm up front is perfect. I'd consider the Whyte range or maybe a standard one one inbred with 120mm forks. 140mm will be OK but is not really necessary for natural riding in the lakes IMO. The C 456 & Cotics are also a good choice as you can run at 120mm. Has anybody mentioned the Orange P7 yet?

LAUNCH69

Thanks for all the help and posts, However . . . . .
I sort of got excited in the classifieds and bought this :

viewtopic.php?f=40050&t=12859155

I now need to sort out some forks for it - I am starting a new thread, any advice appreciated