Whyte Charing Cross vs Charge Filter Hi

mickolas

Which bike to get this summer?

I've been commuting 32 miles a day every work day since September on a GT GTR series 4, my first ever road bike. I chose it primarily for all of the speed/efficiency advantages available to a light, skinny-tyred road bike as I really was not sure how well I would cope with the distance. Now my fitness is up at an all-time personal high, I am seeking out the advantages of other bikes.

The one thing that nearly broke me over last winter was the degradation of my rims and the constant accumulation of aluminium 'bits' in my brake pads - to the point that I wore out a set of rims in less time than the original tyres ( I would point out this includes a 5-consecutive-day period in which I was picking the bits out of the pads, cleaning my rims - even wet'n'drying them - only to be greeted with a cheery SSSHHHCCCRRRAAAAPE upon braking about halfway to work the next day....sorry, where was I?).

Having looked around a bit, I have settled on the two bike mentioned in the header (C2W £1000 limit).

Pros:
Disc brakes
Cartridge wheel bearings
Drop-handlebars
Predominantly or entirely Tiagra drivetrain
Eyelets for mudguards/rack

However, they do seem to offer the same thing (practical turn of speed, robustness, quality components) in two distinct flavours; the Whyte being all about lightweight sleek modernity; the Charge being all about friendly, retro charm and comfort.

Differences(whyte vs charge respectively):
Alu frame/carbon fork vs Tange steel
BB5 vs Tektro Lyra brakes (Lyras have slightly bad rep, but I reckon they should do...until I feel the need for BB7...)
9.8kg vs 11kg (not sure if that is with or without mudguards on the filter)

Charge comes with preferable (to me) gear ratios and full tiagra drivetrain
Whyte comes with better tyres (makes up some of that weight difference)
Whyte rims look better (but It's hard to get detail on the 'Black Dragon', so not sure)
Charge frame layout has a few more practical touches regarding rack fitment, but the Whyte can be rack equipped so does this even matter?


My problem comes down to whether I will be better served by a lower weight (and therefore less work to do) or a more supple ride (leaving me less fatigued for a given amount of work done). My mind changes hourly at the mo. Anyone with experience of these bikes or anything to contribute re the steel vs alu/carbon debate please?


PS I have eliminated hub-geared bikes on the basis that I can't afford alfine 11 and alfine 8 doesn't meet my range requirements (but only just)

PPS eliminated the following bikes for being deficient in comparison to the whyte and charge (in terms of drivetrain components, wheel components, disc brakes or rack/guard-ability): Specialised Tricross Sport Disc, Cotic X, Genesis CdF, Boardman CX, Focus AX4.0 Mares, Ridgeback Cerium.

Jimfrandisco

Don't own either, but have pondered the same bikes recently - the only thing putting me off the Whyte is the mounting of the rear caliper. The Charge has it mounted on the chain stay, the Whyte has it on the seat stay where its more likely to restrict the types of rack you could use.
Good luck.
Jim

raymondo60

Been eyeing the Charge Filter for a while now as a future replacement for my Boardman Pro CX. The spec I like is the Sram Apex groupset. Steel is always going to be heavier than alloy of course, but I've owned two Charge bikes over the last few years and they really are lovely machines. Good luck.

mickolas

thanks raymondo. it's nice to hear nice things about charges, as I am inclining that way as the bigger change from what I'm on now. When I think about my laden journeys, I can't honestly say that an extra kilo makes a huge impact. Crashing over potholes and broken surfaces is becoming tiresome though.

If I may ask, what would steer you towards the charge from the Boardman?

raymondo60

My Boardman is the 'old' one - bought it in 2009. Its been really superb - am using it regularly still - but the upgrade is all about the brakes for me. My old cantilever brakes are not up to the job; I think disc brakes - whatever version - are really necessary on a CX bike, considering its usage. I do like the current Boardman ('Team CX'?) but personally favour the Charge based on my own experience only. Also the Charge is a little more 'retro' looking which appeals to me more, and its all about personal choice. One more thing; I've been impressed with the write-ups and specs of new 'Stevens' CX Bikes, specifically the 'Vapor', which look superb, and should be in the rough price-range of the Charge.

mickolas

thanks again raymondo. I remember thinking about Stevens but forgot to look into them. that vapour looks awesome; sadly a few hundred pounds out of my league if the price at Hargroves is typical. There is a more basic (but still 105 spec) version but this is not disc compatible. For £900 it looks like a bit of a steal though.

mickolas

Oh and Jim. I know what you mean about the rack issue on the whyte - it'd be nice to know that any rack will fit. On the other hand, once you've got a rack on there, it ceases to be an issue, i reckon. And, playing devil's advocate, Whyte have other disc-equipped bikes which use a chainstay mounted caliper, so why not on th cross bikes? It is certainly true that mounting on the seatstay and bracing against the chainstay spreads the load better, but maybe they only did it so that the rear brake cable tilts downwards and water cannot collect in it.

Just food for thought.

The charge comes with a 140mm disc as standard. anyone know if fitting a 160 would pose any problems? Personally, I like the idea of having q smaller rear disc to balanve the braking forces appropriately, but it might be aconsideration for some, especially if a cheap BB7 setup or a cheap 160 disc comes up around replacement time.

chorlton chimp

Interesting thread as I have been having a similar debate with myself of late.

It's wanting discs AND tiagra that are the real limiting factors. I decided that I wanted the Boardman and then discovered Halfords don't take Cyclescheme and scotched that idea.

I didn't want to spend the full £1K but wasn't totally averse to doing so. I was put off the Whyte bikes by the very disparaging comments of the chap in Edinburgh cycles - 'it's a mountain bike with a ridiculous head tube and drops' and by their looks. The colourways didn't do it for me.

Eventually I decided to compromise on the drivetrain and ordered a cdf with the caveat that I will probably replace the saddle and have already purchased replacement tyres (Sammy Slicks with Raceguard) as riding through Manchester without puncture protection isn't a good idea. That being said I haven't actually ridden one although I did take a Day1 for a brief spin the other day and it felt pretty smooth.

Good luck and happy shopping.

godders1

What's your required gear range? Can't you play around with the hub sprocket size to get the gears you need on an Alfine 8?

I reckon the on one pompetamine versa 8 is the perfect winter commuter below £1k.

paulintheforest

I got the Charing Cross in January and am really liking it. It's been in off road mode so far with some 700 x 35 cross tyres and riding around the new forest trails. I've just put the original tyres back on and the rack ready for commuting. I got the Topeak Disc specific rack and it fits fine, I just looked at it in the shed and you might be able to fit an ordinary rack to it due to the positioning of the caliper and the shape of the seat stays. I'm hoping to ride it to work next week for the first time.

mickolas

chorlton chimp, hope you like the cdf. my current bike has a mix of sora and 2300 drivetrain parts and while I find the tiagra stuff smoother, I have no complaints about the lower spec stuff. does the job without drawing attention to itself.

I am surprised by the attitude of edinburgh cycles though. I wouldn't fancy doing any serious mtbing on the charing cross even if it had flat bars. I can only assume that by "ridiculous head tube" they were referring to the fact that it uses the oversize lower bearing, tapered stylee. I can't see how this is anything but an advantage, durability wise - maybe they feel it makes it too stiff?

anyways, I' be really pleased to hear how you like the steel frame on your genesis, once you've had a bit of time to get used to it.


thanks for posting

mickolas

godders, got to admit, the pomp was number 1 on my list for a good while. love the value of the spec for the money. eventually, I came to the conclusion that the rear mounting setup just wasn't for me. I had visions of punctures leaving me at the side of he road on a cold, dark, rainy night (cos isn't that they always seem to happen), trying to juggle the needs of getting the chain tension, wheel alignment and brake setup right all wihout the aid of tension adjusters. I know you can get chaintugs, but I feel it's a bit much to have to buy them separately on a £900 bike. this is before considering the mudguard mounting arrangement. For comparison see how the alfine hub is mounted on the kona dr fine. Now that's good design.

When it comes to the hub itself and the ratios: excuse me while iI reach for the calculator...

my bike came with compact gearing: 36 to 111 inches. I alwaysfound top a bit short(i do have quite a long downhill stretch on my journey). bottom was useful, fully laden, when tired(also have a steep hill)

I currently run a trad 53\39 chainset with a 11/30 cassette: 34.5 to 128 inches. This is great as it allows me carry 30 to 35 mph on my downhill stretches with minimal effort. This covers almost 25% of my morning journey.

looking at the alfine hub, I considered the possibility of running a 48 tooth chainring with either a 18 or 19 tooth sprocket. 37.2 to 114, and 35.3 to 108 inches respectively.

It comes very, very close but loses out to the versatility of derailleurs, at least until 11 speed alfine comes down in price.

I am also a little wary of the jumps between gears. Consider that on my 16 gear bike, iI have 3 overlapping ratios, i effectively have a 13 gear bike. with the gearing iI am currently running, I notice the differencein cadence modulation compared to my previous, compact arrangement. I can live with this, but wouldn't want to take it any further.

Sorry if it sounds like I am down on the pompetamine - I actually think it looks like an awesome bike but it just doesn't tick all the boxes for me.

godders1

You don't sound down on the Pomp at all! If the Alfine 8 isn’t for you that’s fair enough, you’ve obviously put a lot of thought into the gearing.

I would say that you’re massively over complicating back wheel removal though. With horizontal drop outs chain tensioning is really no more complicated than pulling the wheel back far enough to take the slack out of the chain (and you can see where the axle bolts were on the dropout anyway which takes away any guesswork).

The disc brake callipers are securely fixed to the frame and (if set up properly) aligned with the rotors so when refitting the wheel the rotor just slots back in place. No need for readjustment.

I have SKS guards, some secu-clips on the rear mean you can detach the guards from the stays very easily and raise it enough to remove/refit the wheel.

Anyway, enough of my rambling good luck finding the right bike for you.

passout

I think that you are looking at the right bikes although I'd look at Genesis/Ridgeback too. I like the look of the top end Whyte with Apex myself, but then I would use it off road in the holidays.... Main things are rack fittings, guard fittings & tyre clearance in my view - depending on your needs / preferences. Tyre choice is key - do you want wide & confortable for instnace? Bike weight & frame material would be secondary.

surfingsimon

hi. did you decide which bike to go for in the end? i've narrowed it down to the same two + the boardman cx. had a ride of the kings cross (1 model down in spec) and was impressed, light and felt bomb-proof.

i was looking at £500 bikes originally... not quite sure how that figure's grown so much!