Headset Play

Greer_

Okay, I fitted a new fork about 3 months ago, and shortly after, I fitted a new superstar zero stack semi-integrated headset. I put up with the play for a while to see if anything needed to bed in, but now, even when the bearings are fully pre-loaded (topcap bolt is way overtightened) I still get play, and I can't seem to get rid of it. It's only noticeable when sharply braking at the front, or one doing downhill trails.

Other info:

- headtube wasn't faced, but it had to be parallel for the previous headset to be fitted.

- Cups are in straight, no gaps

- Everything is fitted in the correct order, crown race, bearing, cup, cup, bearing, compression ring, top cap seal, spacers, stem, topcap.

- There is a 10mm gap between the top of the steerer and the top cap.

I can't find a reason for the play, and it's starting to get rather annoying. I'd like it fixed before I damage something, so does anyone have any ideas?

allthegearnoidea

How deep is the top cap? Maybe a 10mm gap but if you have a particularly top cap it could be close! I'd be tempted to try it with another spacer in there,
That is, assuming you've undone the stem bolts before tightening the top cap??

Greer_

allthegearnoidea wrote:

How deep is the top cap? Maybe a 10mm gap but if you have a particularly top cap it could be close! I'd be tempted to try it with another spacer in there,
That is, assuming you've undone the stem bolts before tightening the top cap??

If I unscrew the top cap once the stem is tightened, there's still a pretty big gap. I'll have another look though.

And yep, stem bolts were loosened.

allthegearnoidea

I'd be tempted to strip it all down and have a look, just double check that its all right,
If still iffy then pictures would possibly help??

nicklouse

Is it really play or is it fork movement.

Dead head tube?

Greer_

nicklouse wrote:

Is it really play or is it fork movement.

Dead head tube?

That's where I'm confused. It could also possibly be something to do with the brakes. It feels like play, I don't think it would be the fork as it would be more of a smooth action than a knocking.

What's a dead head tube?

wobbem

It might be your brake pads slightly moving to & fro in the calipers

Horton

Worn fork bushings can feel like a loose headset, although as they are new forks I'd be surprised if they were worn already (unless they were second hand but new to you)

A dead head tube is pretty much what it says - head tube could be damaged meaning the actual headset isn't tight in the frame - normally damaged from a hefty front impact, or bad installation...

What are you using to pre-load bearings - standard SFN and top-cap or something more fancy like a Head Doctor? If SFN, have you tried taking the bolt out of the top cap and just screwing it in to the sfn by hand to make sure you can screw it all the way in and it's not got knackered threads somewhere on the bolt which make it feel like it's tight when infact it's not?

If it is the headset bearings and you've ridden it with play for 3 months, then it could be time for another new headset anyway - I'd take it apart and see how smooth the bearings are.

Greer_

Horton wrote:

Worn fork bushings can feel like a loose headset, although as they are new forks I'd be surprised if they were worn already (unless they were second hand but new to you)

A dead head tube is pretty much what it says - head tube could be damaged meaning the actual headset isn't tight in the frame - normally damaged from a hefty front impact, or bad installation...

What are you using to pre-load bearings - standard SFN and top-cap or something more fancy like a Head Doctor? If SFN, have you tried taking the bolt out of the top cap and just screwing it in to the sfn by hand to make sure you can screw it all the way in and it's not got knackered threads somewhere on the bolt which make it feel like it's tight when infact it's not?

If it is the headset bearings and you've ridden it with play for 3 months, then it could be time for another new headset anyway - I'd take it apart and see how smooth the bearings are.

Thanks for the reply. I have checked the forks for play on one of the many occasions I had the headset apart and I can't feel anything. I've had the odd crash, but its usually me falling off to the side, never anything frontal.

Yep its the usual star nut and topcap, and I've already checked that, there's no problem with the threads.

I had it apart last week again, and the bearings feel fine, but I don't think worn bearings would do this, as they're cartridge not loose?

Greer_

wobbem wrote:

It might be your brake pads slightly moving to & fro in the calipers

Is it possible to check for this? I can't really move the pads once they're bolted in.

386ka

Greer_ wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I have checked the forks for play on one of the many occasions I had the headset apart and I can't feel anything.

You can't feel play in the fork if it's out of the bike. Take the bike, assembled, put your fingers at the point where the stanchions meet the lowers, apply the front brake and see if it has any knocking, play.

YeehaaMcgee

Could also be hub bearings.

pilch

Turn your handlebars 90º, put your hand round the bottom cup of the headset, put the brake on & push/rock the bike, that will eliminate any brake/pad movement that could be confusing the issue, you will 'feel' the play in the headset if there is any.

If there is play I would check the bottom bearing, it's very easy to put it in the wrong way, the 'lip' on the crown race can then push the bearing out slightly, which causes play...

leaflite

as I said in previous post, hold the frame in one hand and stem/bars in the other. Lift, so the front wheel is not touching the ground, and try and make 1 move relative to the other. If you cant, it is not the headset. If you can, are the bearings the correct way round and in the cups properly?

Greer_

pilch wrote:

Turn your handlebars 90º, put your hand round the bottom cup of the headset, put the brake on & push/rock the bike, that will eliminate any brake/pad movement that could be confusing the issue, you will 'feel' the play in the headset if there is any.

If there is play I would check the bottom bearing, it's very easy to put it in the wrong way, the 'lip' on the crown race can then push the bearing out slightly, which causes play...

leaflite wrote:

as I said in previous post, hold the frame in one hand and stem/bars in the other. Lift, so the front wheel is not touching the ground, and try and make 1 move relative to the other. If you cant, it is not the headset. If you can, are the bearings the correct way round and in the cups properly?

Hmm, I might be able to rule out the headset then as I can only feel it when riding, not when doing what is said above. The bearings and cups are in fine, there's no problem there.

There's no play in the hub, and also none in the fork bushings (that I can feel). I have absolutely no idea where this play is coming from then :? My bottom bracket is being replaced as there is play in it, do you think it's possible I could feel this play from the bars? I'm pretty sure what I can feel is coming from the headtube/bottom of it.

Thanks for the help.

leaflite

Does it only happen when the brakes are on?

nicklouse

Fork flex.

Check your rotors or pads are not moving or shoes if V brakes when the brakes are applied.