Knocked off , liability advice

Goofo

Dear sirs.....
After cycling home from a hard day at work .... I was hit by a motorist who was pulling out of a junction and was looking right I was traveling from her left and , well shes not seen me and ive skidded and she's hit me .... Smashed front wheel damage to front forks and other bits. Police arrived and I understand she admitted liability at the scene, this is in police report.

Rang her insurance made claim and so far so good ......until now i understand she's disputing the claim stating I was on the pavement (I thought I was on cycle path)

I'm not looking for £ 1000000000 in injuries I just want my bike fixed.... I'm doing this on my own without household insurance etc etc

My question is , if they found that it was my fault am i to pay for damages to her car ?..... Also is it likely to be proved my fault if she admitted it at scene

jonny_trousers

Should be pretty obvious who was at fault and presumably the police not only took statements from you both, but will have studied the accident scene.

If it wasn't your fault then don't sweat it. Tell her insurance company what you have just told us, and that if they do not pay for the damage your client caused to your bike then you will have no option but to seek advice from a solicitor (it will cost them a lot more that way in the long run). If you were actually cycling somewhere that you shouldn't have been then I guess it is fair enough that she should seek compensation from you.

lycraholic

When I was knocked off the fact that the other party admitted fault at the scene made their insurance company positively throw money at me to make me go away.

Having said that if she's now disputing it (sounds v. dodgy!) I think it might be more a job for solicitors; at the very least I'd suggest ringing up a few solicitors just to see what they say. Might also be worth checking out CCTV records for the area, looking for witnesses and so on.

lycraholic

Also when talking to the insurance company it's quite useful to make VERY clear right from the get-go that you are considering solicitors; if you do end up using solicitors, irrespective of whether your claim against the insurance company is successful, it ends up costing them a hell of a lot more. They often end up making more generous offers to discourage you doing this.

First.Aspect

So, was it a pavement or was it a cycle path, or was it a cycle lane? Or none of the above?
When she actually hit you, where were you? How long/far away were you visible to her?

Its a question of facts. Its either a cycle path or it isn't.

Goofo

Dear sirs.....
Thanks for your help so far .....
I think after going back and checking I was on the pavement , I've skidded into the road she was turning out of and due to her looking to her right she's hit me , in her view max four seconds
I would like to know if they found it my fault will I have to pay for her damage ??

daviesee

Goofo wrote:

Dear sirs.....
Thanks for your help so far .....
I think after going back and checking I was on the pavement , I've skidded into the road she was turning out of and due to her looking to her right she's hit me , in her view max four seconds
I would like to know if they found it my fault will I have to pay for her damage ??

On that basis - Your fault.
Who pays? Since the police know who you are, this could get tricky for you but i don't know of any cyclists paying for car damages. Hmm....

ToeKnee

Advice to ALL cyclists: join the CTC or BC ... you are covered for 3rd party damage AND get free legal services.

daviesee

ToeKnee wrote:

Advice to ALL cyclists: join the CTC or BC ... you are covered for 3rd party damage AND get free legal services.

And that.......

jonny_trousers

Goofo wrote:

Dear sirs.....
Thanks for your help so far .....
I think after going back and checking I was on the pavement , I've skidded into the road she was turning out of and due to her looking to her right she's hit me , in her view max four seconds
I would like to know if they found it my fault will I have to pay for her damage ??

I'm afraid you won't get much sympathy for riding on a pavement here, mate. You sound like a nice guy, but do you really think it's fair this woman should have to pay for the damage to her car, or suffer inflated insurance premiums because of your illegal cycling, let alone pay costs for your bike?

redvee

Go back to the scene and walk 100yds away and see if there are any signs showing a shared use path and get pictures of them.

daviesee

redvee wrote:

Go back to the scene and walk 100yds away and see if there are any signs showing a shared use path and get pictures of them.

Shared use path still wouldn't excuse skidding onto a road into a vehicle already there.
(From the info supplied above).

nation

Admissions of liability at the scene aren't worth anything. Insurance companies aren't bound by them (check your policy, it'll have a wording to the effect "we may at any time take over defence of any claim") and in court it can generally be argued that it was a statement made under duress, without due consideration, etc.

You'll need to give a better description of what happened to get decent advice.

First.Aspect

"I've skidded and she's hit me."

Who hit who? Did you cycle into the side of a car pulling up to a junction and who happened to be checking the traffic the from the other direction at the point you hit the car? Or were you hit from the side?

You say you could see the car for perhaps 4 seconds, and we now know you came off a pavement. Where was the car before this? Approaching a junction? Stationary but set back from the juntion? (doesn't seem likely) Stationary at a give way or stop line? Why couldn't you avoid a collision?

Or was the incident more complex?

In answer to your question, the police will be interested only in criminal matters. i.e. Was it careless driving? It seems not. Are you going to get a citation for riding on the pavement, or furious cycling? Who knows. However the police aren't going to be concerned with the property damage;that would be a civil matter. I confess I don't know what the potential consequences are to you from the driver themselves.

How much damage did you do to the car? All things considered, what would be the right thing to do?

Goofo

Thank you for your help and advice so far, your help has been invaluable and I really appreciate it ....

I'm not a pavement rider and I was in the belief I was on a cycle path , it was on approx 20 meters of pavement before a cycle path . Since finding out I was on a pavement I'm somewhat embarrassed , especially being on a forum like this .

At the scence driver and boyfriend where trying to blame me and wanted money for damage to there bumper it was intimidating and I was in shock and didnt have a clue what to do so police where called to assist.

Driver was joining a dual carriage way and looking right , whilst driving , approx 5 mph I've seen this and seen her applied brakes and skidded aprrox 5 meters into the road to where shes still not seen me and then hit me . Damage to my bike as stated above 10 cm scratch to her near side bumper not broken etc

I understands the police recommended "no police action" for the driver or myself

First.Aspect

Look, sorry, but this doesn't stack up. If you came off a pavement onto a road, where was the cycle path? The other side of the road I guess, in which case its hard to see where your confusion might lie. Also, you initially suggested that the driver admitted liability at the scene. Hardly consistent with intimidation by a bf.

And you still haven't been clear whether you were hit from the side or if you simply cycled into the corner of a car. By the sounds of the damage and not a little evasiveness, I'd guess that you bent your wheel and front fork because you hit the front offside of a car, the driver of which was quite rightly looking at traffic on the dual carriageway road she was about to join.

It sounds like you have had a lucky escape - a few more feet and you are tangling with the front end of a car. Cars are large and hard and getting hit by one generally hurts more than your wallet. Trust me, I know.

The "correct" thing here is to make some offer to pay for repairs, or insurance excess if the driver wants to go down that route. A full body shop repair will be hellishly expensive and require repainting of the entire bumper or worse. A scratch repair type of solution offered by you could be cheaper, so why don't you get in first and try to be reasonable?

Do you drive? Any idea how much this might cost her over time? Is this person going to lose a no claims bonus? Perhaps, or perhaps the insurance premium will go up anyway. Either way, I'd urge you to consider whether it might be helpful, if you really think you were at fault, to formally acknowledge this for her sake.

Everyone makes mistakes. Yours will be fairly expensive but my god it could have been worse. What ever you do about this, please learn from it. You should be really alarmed by the fact that you cycled across the slip road of a dual carriageway and were suprised to find a car on it. Your "bike radar" needs some work.

Goofo

My intention is not to deceive I'm trying to spare you some parts to get my question answered !! I'm asking if they find it my fault then am I to pay for damages when I'm basically un insured !!!??
I do hold the driver responsible as if she was looking where she was going then this would have been avoidable I've skidded into the road and she has struck me with her bumper hitting my front wheel and even then continued to drive forward
I found her bf intimating and so requested police assistance , the (844) accident book competed by police with her signed account stated she was at fault

Sesquepidilian

I don't understand how you were approaching from her left unless one of you was travelling against the flow of oncoming traffic, assuming your in a RHD country ?

Goofo

As I've since found out I was on the pavement .......

suzyb

Could you post google streetview of where the accident occured. Might help people understand.

supersonic

Very likely you will have to pay damages as you were in a place you should not have been. You must have left the pavement (at speed) into the road and into the car. Not her fault from the sounds of it.

First.Aspect

supersonic wrote:

Very likely you will have to pay damages as you were in a place you should not have been. You must have left the pavement (at speed) into the road and into the car. Not her fault from the sounds of it.

What he said.

OP you don't come over as deliberately desceptive, more wishful. We can only comment on what you've said and only you know what happened - hence the invitation to post a streeview of the scene. However, unless you were crossing the road well before the car waas present, and the car was moving quite quickly, its hard to see how you couldn't be at least partly at fault.

The pavement cycling is a factor, but doesn't automatically mean that you are at fault for everything that followed. However, you came off a pavement onto a road, skidded and collided with a slow moving car. Its hard to see how you aren't at fault.

Is there some reason you had expected the car to yield to you? Is there some reason you didn't see it earlier?

sketchley

Forgetting who is liable for a moment and to answer your question. The police were involved, therefore the other party have your details. If you end up paying for their damages, is not a question of if you claim against them or not, but if they claim against you, at which point you are liable if they win even if you have no insurance. They can do this regardless or you making a claim against them and if they use their fully comp insurance to fix the damage, then thier insurance are likely to pursue you regardless. Should you claim against them use a no win no fee solicitor as they are unlikely to take on a case if you are going to lose so it's a good starting point. Furthermore if they do pursue a claim and you lose you pay them nothing, however you would be liable for insure third party legal costs which you could insure yourself against. If worth noting that not all claims are settled with 100% liability being assigned to one party or another, often liability can be split 50/50 or 60/40 or 80/20.

shouldbeinbed

To answer your question. If a claim is made against you and upheld by a court then yes you will have to pay whether you have insurance or not. You have no option and no insurance is no mitigation, Insurance is entirely your choice and if it goes that far, you chose wrong - It may be worth checking your home insurance policy for legal cover and if it applies to situations like this. It could get very expensive with costs etc, you need to remember Civil & Criminal courts have the same binding powers of verdicts but different evidential requirements to prove liability /guilt. That the Police made it no further action does not mean that the insurance company and courts are bound by that. I would suggest you start putting money aside and find yourself some legal advice, having re-read your posts here I think you're on dodgy ground if they did pursue you for damages to the car and you said no.

Also 2 things re: your confusion on the day if it is a pavement / cycle path, if the insurance people do need to get this to court A) Ignorance is no defence. It would be used to imply that your road awareness & observational skills are somewhat lacking.

The fact the driver was looking the other way is immaterial, it shows she was taking proper precautions before moving from a junction into traffic. I suspect you don't drive or are still being deliberately naive/evasive on this. I'd put money on her having looked your way, seen you on the pavement and not thought you were about to hop off the pavement and cycle across the front of a car beginning to move (not an unreasonable conclusion), so entirely rightly looked the other way before moving off, this is something that you could, and realistically should, have anticipated.

She's moving at ~5mph in an entirely legal and predictable manner, you've left the pavement at sufficient speed to be skidding (regardless of weather condition it will be used to show you were travelling at such speed you were unable to control your bike, or it is mechanically /physically unfit to be on the road). You've tried to cut across the front of a moving vehicle (you skid in the direction you are pointed) being able to see the driver is looking the other way (you stated it here).

What am I missing that makes it not your fault?

Edited for clarity

Gazzaputt

Just an experience.

My son was cycling on a pavement and hit a car who was reversing into opening to do a 3 point turn.

As the driver never checked for any obstructions they were found liable and we successfully claimed for his injuries (broken knee, fibula and multiple cuts and bruising).

He being on the pavement never came into it.

t4tomo

Gazzaputt wrote:

Just an experience.

My son was cycling on a pavement and hit a car who was reversing into opening to do a 3 point turn.

As the driver never checked for any obstructions they were found liable and we successfully claimed for his injuries (broken knee, fibula and multiple cuts and bruising).

He being on the pavement never came into it.

thats a little different - the car was crossing the pavement so has a duty of care to those on it.

sounds like the OP was cycling on the pavement against the flow of traffic, found a car blocking his path, skidded into the road and ran into the car.

shouldbeinbed

t4tomo wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Just an experience.

My son was cycling on a pavement and hit a car who was reversing into opening to do a 3 point turn.

As the driver never checked for any obstructions they were found liable and we successfully claimed for his injuries (broken knee, fibula and multiple cuts and bruising).

He being on the pavement never came into it.

thats a little different - the car was crossing the pavement so has a duty of care to those on it.

sounds like the OP was cycling on the pavement against the flow of traffic, found a car blocking his path, skidded into the road and ran into the car.

+ 1 and how old was your son Gazzput? Kids get more leeway, hope he's better now anyway, that sounds awful.