Spa Cycles - poor service?

iclestu

Soooooo disappointing.

After this thread:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12854225

I finally managed to find the time to get to Harrogate today (appx 3 hr round trip) to visit Spa Cycles. I tried out their Ti tourer and tried out a Dawes Ultra Galaxy. They had the Dawes on sale for £1440 and the Ti for £1700. From their website (and comments on here and elsewhere) I had expected to find a really professional and helpful service with guys eager to find me the right bike, offer advice on sizes, options etc. No such luck.

The first guy (who, at least, was very polite and WAS trying his best) was a little clueless about prices and possible component options but I had done my research so, whilst it was a little bothersome, I wasn't put off by it. I wanted a front rack and M324 pedals put on whichever of the 2 bikes i chose. The guy went into the back shop and got me a price for the front rack and advised they would put the M324's on either bike for me for nothing. I needed a little time to decide which I was going for so my GF (who was accompanying - well driving! - me) and I went for some lunch in a cafe round the corner to give me some time to decide.

I decided that the weight saving on the ti wasn't really worth it in end and had liked the 'feel' of the Dawes slightly better so after lunch we went back to try and buy one. The shop was MUCH quieter and it was a different guy.

I explained that I had tested both in the morning and decided on the galaxy and that I wanted the M324 pedals. He went to find me a price for them.... He came back saying that they should be £46 (or £56? - i cant quite remember) but he would do it for £36... I tried to explain that they previous guy had offered to do it for nothing but he just wasn't interested. I asked if I was buying a £1500 bike could he not just 'throw them in'. The guy then told me how much they had cut off their profit margin's etc and that if they kept throwing things in all the time there 'would soon be nothing left'. It felt like a rant and that I had offended him by daring to ask. I'm sorry to say he was just plain arsey. No 'sorry that someone else told you that'. No nothing. My GF pointed out that the previous guy had gone through the back to check before offering the pedals but he just said 'well, he didn't check with ME'.

I googled M324's whilst I was stood in the shop on my mobile and found them on sale for £30 no problem on the internet - so was he really taking ANY hit on them at all? I really doubt it. I think that even at £30 he was still selling them at a profit? I took a second to go outside and speak to my GF and arrived at the conclusion I just didn't want to do business there. If they went back on what they said an hour earlier for the sake of £30 (or less?!) what would I do if there was a problem with the bike? £30 is NOTHING. I'd rather spend an extra £300 somewhere else where they seem professional, and more importantly, somewhere where they do what they say they are going to do.

I am gutted. I went all that way with 'cash on hip' to buy a bike and just couldn't do it.

When I think about it now, I was trying to buy a £1500 bike from this guy and he hadn't so much as smiled at me. Keep it mate, no shortage of bike shops I suppose.

Maybe other's have better experiences? Maybe I just caught them on a bad day (they had seemed busy in the morning when I had the new guy)? Who knows? Either way, I'll take my chances somewhere else and my advice to anyone who'll listen is to avoid like the plague. Seems so silly....

Jay dubbleU

No that's pretty much par for the course at Spa Cycles - most of the staff are OK but there are a couple who are a pain.

graham.

Anyone think it would be worth sending a link to this thread to Spa?
Seems a reasonable and well put gripe. Perhaps they should know.

iclestu

Graham. wrote:

Anyone think it would be worth sending a link to this thread to Spa?
Seems a reasonable and well put gripe. Perhaps they should know.

They could sure use the feedback but cant think of anything they could say now to make me give them my business. If they cant do what they say they are gonna do for 30 quid pre-sale, what happens if i have any issues post-sale? Not worth it for me. Im sure it was a crackin deal an all, but id rather have some faith in the people im buying from.

gosport_commuter

I recently placed an order with spa for some new rims and spokes. After the 4th working day I decided to phone them to check that they had been dispatched, as I was hoping to recieve them for the weekend. As it turns out, they neither had stock of the spokes - nor indeed the rims. And to boot were not expecting them for "possibly weeks" ! I was a little less than impressed with the lack of communication in this matter - how hard would it have been to shoot me an email to alert me of their prblems fullfilling my order? As it was, i arranged on the phone for different rims with different ERD and so different length spokes. But I will NOT if I can at all help it, be ordering my next set from them. A real shame, As I really liked their apparant ethos, But there apparent distain at having me as a customer expect for them to deliver an order amazed me.

HTH

Cleat Eastwood

at the end of the day its their loss - can any business really afford to turn away 1500 squid, possibly, but what about the custom they will lose because of tales like this. The treatment of customers beggars belief sometimes. I ordered something from rose bikes in germany - I received an email saying the item wasnt in stock and would i like them to keep the money till the item became available or have a refund - now because of that simple response i'll use them again and i'll tell my mates to use them - if any of my mates were to shop at spa I'd tell them the tale from this post. I think shops dont realise is that in the global market given the range of online stores they were actually very lucky to have you walk through the door.

chadders81

Bad business by them but, at the same time, you were happy to write off a three-hour trip for the sake of £30?

iclestu

Chadders81 wrote:

Bad business by them but, at the same time, you were happy to write off a three-hour trip for the sake of £30?

not at all.

I was gutted. I really really want that bike!

As mentioned above tho, its not really the £30 at all. They SAID they would do it an hr before. They then didnt. They didny give a hoot that they had TOLD me they would do it. So what happens if I take my new shiny £1500 bike for a spin and something falls off? How on earth can i trust that they will take responsibility for it?

I wrote off the 3 hr trip very reluctantly because they were rude and dishonest. The £30 is neither here nor there. Would happily have spent an extra couple of hundred quid for that bike (and may well end up doing so somewhere else!!!!)

iclestu

Chadders81 wrote:

Bad business by them but, at the same time, you were happy to write off a three-hour trip for the sake of £30?

not at all.

I was gutted. I really really want that bike!

As mentioned above tho, its not really the £30 at all. They SAID they would do it an hr before. They then didnt. They didny give a hoot that they had TOLD me they would do it. So what happens if I take my new shiny £1500 bike for a spin and something falls off? How on earth can i trust that they will take responsibility for it?

I wrote off the 3 hr trip very reluctantly because they were rude and dishonest. The £30 is neither here nor there. Would happily have spent an extra couple of hundred quid for that bike (and may well end up doing so somewhere else!!!!)

DF33

This thread shows both sides.

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7228

They moved premises towards the end of the thread

Having been in to the new location a few times it seems much calmer. Disappointing to hear that some old habits haven't died and are sometimes resurrected at the new place.

chadders81

iclestu wrote:

Chadders81 wrote:

Bad business by them but, at the same time, you were happy to write off a three-hour trip for the sake of £30?

not at all.

I was gutted. I really really want that bike!

As mentioned above tho, its not really the £30 at all. They SAID they would do it an hr before. They then didnt. They didny give a hoot that they had TOLD me they would do it. So what happens if I take my new shiny £1500 bike for a spin and something falls off? How on earth can i trust that they will take responsibility for it?

I wrote off the 3 hr trip very reluctantly because they were rude and dishonest. The £30 is neither here nor there. Would happily have spent an extra couple of hundred quid for that bike (and may well end up doing so somewhere else!!!!)

Fair play to you in that case. I would have done the very British thing of going home with the bike and getting pedals off the net for £30.

First.Aspect

Well done for voting with your feet. If more people had done this, we wouldn't have Halfords. Or Evans.

I work in a service industry and figuring out what will annoy customers is hardly rocket science. Being self important enough to criticise a colleague and complain about the realities of retail is not a good idea. Its right up there with complaining how expensive your next skiing holiday will be or having a fountain in the lobby.

I had a horror story with the last bike I bought - I had about a dozen spoke failures in the first few months and there was a product recall on a stem. Neither issue was initially handled with reference to UK consumer laws. In the end I got what I wanted but I had to get very aggro to get it. I don't think I ever really liked that bike as a result.

Its best to buy your bike from someone you don't actively dislike. Good decision.

Jay dubbleU

On the other hand I bought my Ultra Galaxy and a set of hand built wheels from Spa, both of which were delivered promptly and without any hitches - perhaps they're better dealt with on line

vorsprung

I've used Spa Cycles since 2004 and bought lots of stuff off them, including a complete Super Galaxy, several wheels, Carradice, Ortlieb, many tyres, blocks, Brooks saddles..I couldn't give you a complete list!

Never had any trouble with them, no poor service, no rudeness, no "in stock, out of stock" experiences, they've always stuck to deals agreed orally etc etc etc

They are cheap as chips and they have a great range of touring related bike bits

Last week I bought some inner tubes and a Carradice Bagman support from them. After a well mannered telephone conversation the parts arrived promptly.

I'd say the experience of the OP was unfortunate. But don't read it and let that put you off dealing with this useful and excellent shop.

walkingbootweather

iclestu - sorry to hear about your poor experience with Spa. I have no affiliation with the shop and would probably have done the same as you in the circumstances but my experiences with them have been very different.

First thing to understand is that they are an old fashioned business so I wouldn't rely upon email or website for communications, however on the telephone or face-to-face I have found them excellent. There was an older chap there who can be a bit surly but is very knowledgeable and he was able to provide me a good service.

Over the years I have taken a couple of their bikes for test run and never had to leave a deposit or car keys. I rang them once for a price for some hand-built wheels, they offered to build what I asked for at a competitive price but persuaded me to get them to build something cheaper instead. This threw me a bit but they were so confident that they offered to send me what they recommended up front and I could try them out for a couple of weeks and either pay for them or return them. I'm pleased to say that I kept the wheels and have been very pleased with them. I have recommended Spa Cycles to friends and on this forum numerous times.

I don't think their margins can be great, but I agree it is a pretty poor show to withdraw an offer that was made, however could it have been a simple misunderstanding? Was the original offer to "put the pedals on", a simple offer to fit them for free? Sharing experiences on a forum such has the potential to be a great boost or a blow to a small business so I wanted to share my positive experiences to balance your unsatisfactory one.

I do hope you find a bike that you are happy with whether it is from Spa Cycles or elsewhere.

iclestu

walkingbootweather wrote:

...however could it have been a simple misunderstanding? Was the original offer to "put the pedals on", a simple offer to fit them for free?

no. Absolutely no misunderstanding. He got me a price for the panniers and offered the pedals for nothing. Even if there had been any misunderstanding surely even THAT should cause them concern?

If the second guy had even begun to pretend to be concerned about it for one second im sure i could have let the £30 go. He didnt give a toss. He really really should have no matter what his margins were.

Im sure others experiences ARE different and certainally have no wish to damage anyone's livelyhood.

tailwindhome

iclestu wrote:

Chadders81 wrote:

Bad business by them but, at the same time, you were happy to write off a three-hour trip for the sake of £30?

not at all.

I was gutted. I really really want that bike!

As mentioned above tho, its not really the £30 at all. They SAID they would do it an hr before. They then didnt. They didny give a hoot that they had TOLD me they would do it. So what happens if I take my new shiny £1500 bike for a spin and something falls off? How on earth can i trust that they will take responsibility for it?

I wrote off the 3 hr trip very reluctantly because they were rude and dishonest. The £30 is neither here nor there. Would happily have spent an extra couple of hundred quid for that bike (and may well end up doing so somewhere else!!!!)

I've never understood the logic of punishing a shop/service provider for poor service if the alternative is to pay more elsewhere.


]

First.Aspect

TailWindHome wrote:

I've never understood the logic of punishing a shop/service provider for poor service if the alternative is to pay more elsewhere.

Well that's an option I suppose. But if don't where's your self respect? Get treated like a **** and hand over hard earned cash anyway?

I agree completely with the OP. How many £1500 bikes does a LBS sell in a week? If someone is in there with that much cash, its clearly a VERY bad sign if staff are indifferent. Its not as though the OP was haggling for a discount on chain lube to go with the brand new chain he was purchasing, is it?

Fortunately there are enough places with good service to avoid the ones without. There is also the inerweb to consider. google shopping results indicative of hope

tailwindhome

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I've never understood the logic of punishing a shop/service provider for poor service if the alternative is to pay more elsewhere.

Well that's an option I suppose. But if don't where's your self respect? Get treated like a **** and hand over hard earned cash anyway?

It's not always easy but you need to try not think of it in those terms

If the OP goes next door and buys the same bike for £1600 instead of £1500 then he's £100 out of pocket.

For what? To teach Shop A a lesson?

walkingbootweather

The Interweb is great if you want low prices and an impersonal service. Large chains have lots of buying power and attract business through more extensive marketing, economies of scale, or loss leaders. I for one would be sad to see the demise of the quality traditional independent bike shop where you can see, touch and try the merchandise, where you can get sound advice, and where you can be more sure of quality assembly and after sales service.

There are some LBS that I visit as much for a chat and to ogle as to buy, in one of these I'm as likely as not to get a free cup of tea as I chat. Spa Cycles is not quite like that but for anything to do with 'working bikes' (as opposed to MTB, or race bikes), I have found them to be one of the best in the North of England.

There is no excuse for poor customer service and it must have been disappointing to have seen an offer withdrawn, but personally I'd think twice before paying more elsewhere for the bike.

iclestu

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I've never understood the logic of punishing a shop/service provider for poor service if the alternative is to pay more elsewhere.

Well that's an option I suppose. But if don't where's your self respect? Get treated like a **** and hand over hard earned cash anyway?

It's not always easy but you need to try not think of it in those terms

If the OP goes next door and buys the same bike for £1600 instead of £1500 then he's £100 out of pocket.

For what? To teach Shop A a lesson?

no.

Not to teach anyone a lesson. To have faith that if something goes wrong with my MASSIVE purchase that the shop will do the right thing. Others assert spa are that kind of place. Perhaps they are right but, to me, if they were that kind of place (consistently) my protest and explanation would have met with some understanding. Well worth the extra for trust that a shop would give a shit if something went wrong. spa dont. (or at least didnt with me)

First.Aspect

walkingbootweather wrote:

The Interweb is great if you want low prices and an impersonal service. Large chains have lots of buying power and attract business through more extensive marketing, economies of scale, or loss leaders. I for one would be sad to see the demise of the quality traditional independent bike shop where you can see, touch and try the merchandise, where you can get sound advice, and where you can be more sure of quality assembly and after sales service.

There are some LBS that I visit as much for a chat and to ogle as to buy, in one of these I'm as likely as not to get a free cup of tea as I chat. Spa Cycles is not quite like that but for anything to do with 'working bikes' (as opposed to MTB, or race bikes), I have found them to be one of the best in the North of England.

There is no excuse for poor customer service and it must have been disappointing to have seen an offer withdrawn, but personally I'd think twice before paying more elsewhere for the bike.

I agree - I personally quite dislike large impersonal vendors. However, I don't think there's any sense in supporting small rude little shops, or attributing a sale to a small rude little man. Besides, it sounds like the OP did think twice - long enough to do some research, try to reason with said man and then decide on balance that said man really was being unreasonable.

Also don't overestimate the effect of the large chains' buying power. It tends to help for stock clearance of pervious years' products, perhaps with 5% loyalty bonuses, etc, but the rrp seems to me to be largely set by the distributors in this sector. The google link I posted included sales by a number of shops which, despite having an internet presence, probably fall into exactly the category of shop you refer to. Winstanleys, for example. Hardly Wiggle, are they?

tailwindhome

iclestu wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

I've never understood the logic of punishing a shop/service provider for poor service if the alternative is to pay more elsewhere.

Well that's an option I suppose. But if don't where's your self respect? Get treated like a **** and hand over hard earned cash anyway?

It's not always easy but you need to try not think of it in those terms

If the OP goes next door and buys the same bike for £1600 instead of £1500 then he's £100 out of pocket.

For what? To teach Shop A a lesson?

no.

Not to teach anyone a lesson. To have faith that if something goes wrong with my MASSIVE purchase that the shop will do the right thing. Others assert spa are that kind of place. Perhaps they are right but, to me, if they were that kind of place (consistently) my protest and explanation would have met with some understanding. Well worth the extra for trust that a shop would give a shoot if something went wrong. spa dont. (or at least didnt with me)

Could you quantitify how much extra that piece of mind is worth?

iclestu

TailWindHome wrote:

Could you quantitify how much extra that piece of mind is worth?

i dont really know. I guess it depends on the purchase. I'd have no problem buying a cheesburger from Spa :-)

HebdenBiker

The OP's treatment is a shame. As I've just written on my other thread, Spa Cycles can seem a bit chaotic and "on-the-fly", because they treat each customer as an individual, so one staff member will promise a customer something then not tell anyone else. I've experienced this. However, fundamentally they are sound guys.

You don't go into Spa Cycles expecting friendly patter or computerised efficiency, but what you will definitely get from them is plenty of knowledge, a huge stock inventory and to be treated as an individual. They will frequently "go the extra mile" for a customer.

By the way, I agree with the OP. If I had experienced poor service, I would walk away on principle, even if it then cost me more somewhere else. OP - don't give up on Spa. Maybe, instead of posting on here, you could have emailed the boss and set out your complaint, and seen what they came back with.

wintonbina

No price can be put on principles!
Fair play to you, I hope you find some LBS who will give you good service!
Tony

tailwindhome

While it's arguable that it may be worth paying a premium for what you perceive to be the peace of mind of buying from an LBS where you received good service you should be aware that this is exactly what you are doing.

If an LBS has a bike for £1700 and Wiggle (for example) have the same bike for £1500 and I buy the bike from the LBS then in effect I'm paying a £200 premium for this perceived 'peace of mind'. Both retailers have exactly the same legal obligations.

However if I'm pi$$ed off at WIggle and decide to buy from the LBS 'on principle' then I'm only punishing myself...

If I had experienced poor service, I would walk away on principle, even if it then cost me more somewhere else.

optimisticbiker

TailWindHome wrote:

While it's arguable that it may be worth paying a premium for what you perceive to be the peace of mind of buying from an LBS where you received good service you should be aware that this is exactly what you are doing.

If an LBS has a bike for £1700 and Wiggle (for example) have the same bike for £1500 and I buy the bike from the LBS then in effect I'm paying a £200 premium for this perceived 'peace of mind'. Both retailers have exactly the same legal obligations.

However if I'm pi$$ed off at WIggle and decide to buy from the LBS 'on principle' then I'm only punishing myself...

If I had experienced poor service, I would walk away on principle, even if it then cost me more somewhere else.

Maybe so, but there's the hassle factor as well... in this case I agree with the OP.. Mrs OB wife is a master of not buying from someone if she didn't like them.

A 3hr round trip isn't something to be sneezed at, nor is the hassle of returning something bought online. I would certainly consider twice buying a bike from anyone I couldn't easily take it back to and talk to them face to face...

neiltb

if the shop don't seem interested when you buy a bike, how interested will they be if you take it back with an issue?

That is the trust that the OP lost in spa.

iclestu

neiltb wrote:

if the shop don't seem interested when you buy a bike, how interested will they be if you take it back with an issue?

That is the trust that the OP lost in spa.

precisely this!

I wouldnt have batted an eyelid if the original price had been £100 greater or if the first guy said something like 'i cant throw in the pedals because we have taken so much off the bike already. Or EVEN if the second guy seemed in the least worried that id been told something he was now refusing.

Its not so much the lbs thing. Id be happy to buy from wiggle because I have returned things to them hassle free before and when something went wrong with some lights i bought from them they shipped new ones instantly before they even got the old ones back, etc etc. Through scores o
f purchases they havent once let me down or failed to do what they said they would do. It took just one visit to spa for them to fail to do what they said. That matters. It really does. It matters more that they (or at least thier rep) couldnt care less that they did.

Sorry folks, just my tuppence worth but im more than happy with my decision!

jonny_trousers

Threads like this one are really useful and I think it might not be a bad idea for someone to create an LBS review thread. I know it would attract more moaners than those wishing to leave positive feedback, but any overly harsh feedback could then be refuted by the experience of other members, and it might encourage some LBS's to up their game.

I absolutely love Wiggle, but I've been hoping for some time to find a LBS that I can trust and who offer great customer service, even if the cost of their products is a little more than the online retailers. Some time ago I'd hoped that I'd found that LBS in De Ver Cycles. The owners/staff are all friendly, they're keen cyclists (well, a couple of them are, anyway), and their showroom is a gallery of some of the most beautiful Italian bikes you can buy (just the kind of things an idiot MAMIL like me might want to spend too much money on one day), but their service was absolutely shocking. Not only did I have to wait four months for a simple respray job (ok, perhaps Colour Tech were partly at fault over this, but I had dealt with De Ver and it was their responsibility to get the job done for me on time or to find someone else who could. Not to leave me having to email them twice a week asking where the hell my frame was), but when the frame was finally built up, the workshop costs were shocking (way more even than Condor), I'd been charged for things I hadn't asked for, the positioning of levers on bars I had requested prior to new tape being applied had been ignored, and the gear indexing was all over the place.

Now, you live and learn and I'm sure there are fantastic LBS's out there just waiting to be discovered, but it does astonish me how variable customer service can be in small, British businesses given what they must be up against with the huge, online retailers.

Thread hijack and personal rant over