Nicest Ti?

TMR

If you were going to buy a really nice Ti frame from an exclusive and well regarded builder who would you look at?

I've looked at Enigma - ridden two of them. Great bikes but the finish isn't good enough for my money.

flasher

Seven, IF, Moots.

asprilla

Crisp Titanium.

gabriel959

IF, Moots, Baum, Seven.

Enigma, Lynksey, Litespeed, Kinesis, Van Nicholas, Sabbath are good but a step or two below.

mjbennett

Lynskey and litespeed are not in the same bracket as the cheaper chinese frames. These usa made frames are better made, with better welds and made by manufacturers with a history and tradition of shaping/ovalising the tubsets for increased perrformance. See the archon, and the r440 for an idea of what i mean. Even moots do not produce a frame as good as the r440. You also forgot indy fab- their Ti frames are works of art.

daviesee

The last Lynskey I saw was being returned to the shop.

The cyclist had hit someone who went down in front of him. The head tube came clear off the rest of the frame :shock:

pastey_boy

ive owned ti frames by lynskey, titus and enigma to name a few, the titus and lynskey welds were of a much higher quality when compared to the enigma.

mjbennett

daviesee, with the lifetime guarantee a Lynskey frame being damaged in a crash is not a problem.
I've seen losts of frames and components crack or break - depends on many things including weight of rider, momentum, speed of impact etc

MattC59

Well, I'm having an Enigma Esprit built for me soon, and there's been nothing wrong at all with the welds on any of the Enigmas I've seen lately, they're very high quality, and their service has been fantastic so far.

Ok, the Moots and IF bikes are lovely but you pays yer money, you takes yer choice.

waterford123

A Serotta is a rather spectacular frame.

Monty Dog

Moots, Dean or Baum - there's a reason you don't see many around.

waterford123

Monty Dog wrote:

Moots, Dean or Baum - there's a reason you don't see many around.

Is it that they don't have the marketing budget of 'other' American brands?

Wheelspinner

waterford123 wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Moots, Dean or Baum - there's a reason you don't see many around.

Is it that they don't have the marketing budget of 'other' American brands?

Er, Baum is NOT American... :evil:

None of the above need huge marketing budgets because they already have long waiting lists... here's why:

daviesee

mjbennett wrote:

daviesee, with the lifetime guarantee a Lynskey frame being damaged in a crash is not a problem.
I've seen losts of frames and components crack or break - depends on many things including weight of rider, momentum, speed of impact etc

No problem with that. And he was getting it replaced without any quibbles.
What was surprising was how clean the welds came off the head tube. The welds hadn't penetrated at all.

itsnotarace

Darren Crisp and Firefly









Baum are nice but too expensive. Their paint jobs are second to none however

mrushton

Of the current crop most of the best seem to be US made. So I would be looking at Serotta/Seven/Moots/IF/Guru. These are on my lottery wish-list. Not sure if Waterford do Ti. Seven do some spectacular carbon Ti mix eg 622slx. IF do those crown shaped lugs ( )

jordan_217

I'm really struggling to comprehend the quality of the Baum and Moots frames if they are apparently significantly better than that of an Enigma. I'm not arguing with any comments, or doubting them just that they must be truly amazing. I would love to see one up close.

I have an Enigma Echo and I think the finish (welds, polishing, decals) is exceptional. Yes, I know the off the peg Echoes are built in the far East but I really don't care. I just know I'm really pleased with my bike and the whole experience of buying from Enigma was a really positive one.

There's some stunning bikes being mentioned on this thread!

Out of interest, can a visual inspection alone be an indicator of the quality of a weld? e.g; can a buttery smooth, spatter free weld still be a poor one?

Rule74Please

Out of interest, can a visual inspection alone be an indicator of the quality of a weld? e.g; can a buttery smooth, spatter free weld still be a poor one?

Sure

The easiest (cheapest) way to get a smooth weld is with a Dremmel. this is often done so as to impress those who know nothing about welding that this is a good weld.

Ti is difficult to weld (hence the cost) best frames come from 6% Al alloys. These are rare Lightspeed were the experts in them about 15 years ago. Frames like the Blade TT and the American Classics and the Vortex were made from this. Drama was about 20% of weld in this material fail. so the cost of X-0ray makes the frames expensive. Oh and the fact you have to weld in a vacuum

styxd

Id probably buy one from the guy who offers the best warranty. Alot of Ti frames seem to fail. I'd avoid Lightspeed like the plague.

Tidy welds dont necessarily mean strong welds.

Kent Erikson and Steve Potts make frames that look pretty good, dont know wether they are or not though.

Titanium seems like a daft choice for a bike material when you could have carbon or steel for much less cost. But if you've got money to burn then go for it.

waterford123

mrushton wrote:

Of the current crop most of the best seem to be US made. So I would be looking at Serotta/Seven/Moots/IF/Guru. These are on my lottery wish-list. Not sure if Waterford do Ti. Seven do some spectacular carbon Ti mix eg 622slx. IF do those crown shaped lugs ( )

You're right, Waterford don't. True temper and 953 is what they work with.

yakk

Merlin haven't been mentioned, I think due to one very bad after-sales issue covered extensively here.
I have a Merlin Magia (American manufactured) and an Airborne Zepplin (Far east?). I can't honestly comment on weld quality, both look fine (the Merlin perhaps a bit neater?). The Merlin has double butted tubing and is about 350g ligher, and I think those 2 things make the difference in feel - lighter and springier. So, I prefer my Merlin, but the Airborne is fine.
Best quality? You'd have to try a few, but you can't go wrong with a good fit and test riding to see what you prefer. That's the best way of ensuring you' re happy with the outlay.
Yak

MattC59

styxd wrote:

Titanium seems like a daft choice for a bike material when you could have carbon or steel for much less cost. But if you've got money to burn then go for it.

Why ? Carbon, Steel and Ti all have different ride characteristics.

If cost is your influencing factor, then surely carbon or *good* steel would also seem a daft choice, you could buy a cheap Aluminium frame for a fraction of the cost, or even a BSO mafe from gas pipe.

Your argument doesn't stack up.

asprilla

itsnotarace wrote:

Darren Crisp and Firefly

They are just stunning.

I'm planning a trip back to Tuscany where I had my honeymoon. The Mrs thinks it's for our 10 year anniversary but it's actually to go and see Darren Crisp.

styxd

Why ? Carbon, Steel and Ti all have different ride characteristics.

You're correct. But different frames have different ride characteristics, irrespective of material. Two steel frames can ride completely differently, it depends on so much more than the fact they're steel.

The fact is, carbon can be made comfy or stiff or light or all three or whatever you want. For less cost than Ti. Ti only seems like the sensible material of choice for some middle aged bloke who wants a hand welded "bike for life"

jordan_217

styxd wrote:

Ti only seems like the sensible material of choice for some middle aged bloke who wants a hand welded "bike for life"

Erm, thanks for shoving me into that stereotype.

1. I ain't middle aged.
2. I sold a good (IMO) carbon bike to fund my Enigma.
3. I don't give a 5hi7 about frame material or the brand. It could be made of dried weetabix for all I care. For me, it came down to the ride and the Enigma done it for me. I test rode Alu, Carbon, Steel and Ti bikes before I decided where I spent my money.

I'm off to enter a sportive now and then fit my gut into some Assos shorts and Foska jersey before a ride on my Ti, middle-aged blokes bike (5 mile ride - 2.5 mile to the coffee shop and back).

Wheelspinner

styxd wrote:

The fact is, carbon can be made comfy or stiff or light or all three or whatever you want. For less cost than Ti. Ti only seems like the sensible material of choice for some middle aged bloke who wants a hand welded "bike for life"

If you have a useful point, please make it....

There is very little about buying cycling gear that might be termed "sensible".

itsnotarace

Asprilla wrote:

I'm planning a trip back to Tuscany where I had my honeymoon. The Mrs thinks it's for our 10 year anniversary but it's actually to go and see Darren Crisp.

Well it would be rude not to, if you're in the area anyway

daviesee

Wheelspinner wrote:

styxd wrote:

The fact is, carbon can be made comfy or stiff or light or all three or whatever you want. For less cost than Ti. Ti only seems like the sensible material of choice for some middle aged bloke who wants a hand welded "bike for life"

If you have a useful point, please make it....

There is very little about buying cycling gear that might be termed "sensible".

Possible answer - "I have a carbon bike. My bike is the best."

MattC59

styxd wrote:

Why ? Carbon, Steel and Ti all have different ride characteristics.

You're correct. But different frames have different ride characteristics, irrespective of material. Two steel frames can ride completely differently, it depends on so much more than the fact they're steel.

The fact is, carbon can be made comfy or stiff or light or all three or whatever you want. For less cost than Ti. Ti only seems like the sensible material of choice for some middle aged bloke who wants a hand welded "bike for life"

Can you give me an example then, of a carbon bike which will have the same ride as the Esprit I'm looking at, but costs less. I could genuinely do with reducing the budget.

styxd

Ive never ridden an Esprit or a carbon bike so I cant help sorry!

flasher

styxd wrote:

Ive never ridden an Esprit or a carbon bike so I cant help sorry!