I don't understand this cycling lark

BobScarle

So I get up this morning at 6 o'clock and get out for a 30 mile loop before work. I felt really tired and I could have quite easily stayed in bed. However I did go out, but my legs felt heavy. Rode 65 miles on Saturday without a problem, legs were fine and felt good over the weekend and yesterday. But this morning, they felt like lead.

5 miles in and I am thinking about the number of options I have got to cut the ride short. I decide not to take the first option, or the next and in fact I completed the 30 miles.

So, I go out this morning not feeling motivated and not having good legs but come back with my best ever time and fastest average for that loop.

I just don't understand!

sagefly

Its often the way, "leaden" legs seem to make you concentrate on trying to put life into them and you go quicker, because you are thinking about your legs the ride is over before you realise (insert pun)

I'm new to this but don't overthink works best most of the time, turn the pedals and you get a benefit

Ringo 68

It is strange at times.

Several times I have hit the first proper slope on my ride, one I normally have no bother with at all, and halfway up I have contemplated just turning round and going home because my legs feel so bad.

Pride keeps me going and after a while I feel ok again.

nickel

If your glycogen stores are low (which they often can be early in the morning) your body won't 'let' you ride as fast at it wants to keep what glycogen is left (stored in your liver) for providing glucose for your brain. I went to a sports nutrition talk last week, by a Professor of Sports Science at Loughborough uni and learned some really interesting stuff. If your glycogen stocks are low the mere act of swilling a carbohydrate drink in your mouth and spitting it out again will make your brain think you're stocking up on carbs and immediately release some more glycogen allowing you to ride faster.

buzzwold

Nickel wrote:

If your glycogen stores are low (which they often can be early in the morning) your body won't 'let' you ride as fast at it wants to keep what glycogen is left (stored in your liver) for providing glucose for your brain. I went to a sports nutrition talk last week, by a Professor of science for Loughborough uni and learned some really interesting stuff. If your glycogen stocks are low the mere act of swilling a carbohydrate drink in your mouth and spitting it out again will make your brain think you're stocking up on carbs and immediately release some more glycogen allowing you to ride faster.

I'll give that a go as I have the same problem in the evening.

Really struggled to keep any pace going at all yesterday and legs were okayish. I just think that sometimes the body wants not to do things. The bike thing comes down to the reason why we do it - be it health, fun, competitive spirit, camaraderie, looking good in lycra or combos thereof. Some rides will be finger lickin' good. Other rides will be *rse wiping bad.

BobScarle

Nickel...Now that's got me thinking. I don't take a "sports" drink with me, just squash. Even so, by drinking that I am fooling my body into thinking that it is being fed and consequentially releasing stored glycogen to use as fuel. Wow, I would have never thought of anything like that. Interesting.

That could well explain why your legs feel better after riding for a while. It's not the riding, but the drinking!

Wirral_paul

Do you do anything to help you recover after a ride? Exercise effectively damages the muscle tissue and it needs to recover. Its this repair of muscle tissue that allows them to get stronger. To do this, they need protein so maybe consider trying a proper protein recovery drink within half an hour of finishing a ride. You also need to eat properly afterwards.

The whole eating / drinking routine is a big part of improving your cycling. Heat like we're getting now means you need to obviously drink a lot more...... but how many beginners are really hurting their ability by not replacing the electrolytes that your body needs? I was out on Sunday and did 100 miles, mostly in the Welsh hills. I drank 4 large bottles of electrolyte drink, a can of coke and a can of orangeade. This wasnt enough as i came home dehydrated.

To the OP - we all go through it at some stage so just stick with it. The legs will soon get used to it and you'll feel better after each ride. Just remember (learn) to eat and drink properly and you'll give your body the best chance to do what you ask it to.

nickel

BobScarle wrote:

Nickel...Now that's got me thinking. I don't take a "sports" drink with me, just squash. Even so, by drinking that I am fooling my body into thinking that it is being fed and consequentially releasing stored glycogen to use as fuel. Wow, I would have never thought of anything like that. Interesting.

That could well explain why your legs feel better after riding for a while. It's not the riding, but the drinking!

As long as it has some form of carb in it it should. Apparently eating a light, easily digestible meal shortly before bed (like just a bit of breakfast cereal) can also keep the carbs stocks in your liver topped up so additional carbs can be sent to the muscles.

slowsider

Nickel wrote:

the mere act of swilling a carbohydrate drink in your mouth and spitting it out again will make your brain think you're stocking up on carbs and immediately release some more glycogen allowing you to ride faster.

There's a comment to that effect on the High5 website, on the Race Faster download. They don't explain why tho', so thanks for doing so.

Any more details from the talk you went to ?

nickel

slowsider wrote:

Nickel wrote:

the mere act of swilling a carbohydrate drink in your mouth and spitting it out again will make your brain think you're stocking up on carbs and immediately release some more glycogen allowing you to ride faster.

There's a comment to that effect on the High5 website, on the Race Faster download. They don't explain why tho', so thanks for doing so.

Any more details from the talk you went to ?

I only really took some mental notes but I'll try and summarise what was said (the chap was the father in-law of one my club's members and he offered to give my club a free talk!)

-Basically carbohydrates are stored in two places: the liver and the skeletal muscles (where it's stored as gylcogen). When you bonk your skeletal muscles have run out of glycogen. There will still be carbs stored in your liver but these are kept for supplying your brain and nervous system with glucose (so you stay alive basically).

-Overnight glucose is used up in powering your brain, this means that the next morning your stocks will be depleted and a lot of the carbs you consume will go straight to liver rather than going to your skeletal muscles. So if you have a big ride than a carb rich dinner and light carb snack before bed will help keep your stocks topped up.

-Whilst riding hard you should aim to consume 60g of carbohydrate an hour as the intensity of exercise increases more of your fuel will be derived from glycogen in your muscles and less from your fat store.

-Immediately after the ride (ideally within 30 mins) you should consume some protein and some carbs to help restock your carb stores, the ability for your body to stock up on carbs starts to decrease immediately after exercise so the quicker you get them in the better. The protein will aid muscle recovery. The best place to get protein from is milk (he said that it's just as good the powered protein drinks that a lot of people use and a lot cheaper!)

Hope this helps, im pretty sure i've got all the important points there even if a couple of the details are a bit wrong.

nickel

Wirral_Paul wrote:

but how many beginners are really hurting their ability by not replacing the electrolytes that your body needs? I was out on Sunday and did 100 miles, mostly in the Welsh hills. I drank 4 large bottles of electrolyte drink, a can of coke and a can of orangeade. This wasnt enough as i came home dehydrated.

This is very true, I've been cycling for a couple of years now but its only in the last few months I've actually got a hang of nutrition and hydration whilst riding. You've got to really force yourself to drink a lot, especially in warmer weather. I did a 113 mile sportive at the start of the month (when it wasnt even warm) and made myself drink 6x800ml bottles of water and the difference it made was astounding. The whole drink til you pee very pale yellow/clear thing is actually a great indicator.

danowat

I've PB'd in time trials at least 3 times when I've been feeling crappy, for figure :roll:

sancho1983

Apologies for a possibly stupid question but if I'm cycling to lose weight, doing 10-15 miles 3 times per week will drinking recovery shakea/electrolytes etc. compromise any of the weight loss benefits?

Wirral_paul

sancho1983 wrote:

Apologies for a possibly stupid question but if I'm cycling to lose weight, doing 10-15 miles 3 times per week will drinking recovery shakea/electrolytes etc. compromise any of the weight loss benefits?

At that level then to be honest - you're not going to benefit from additional recovery drinks if you have a proper healthy diet. You'd have to be doing some serious work in those 10 miles to deplete your energy reserves enough to need any real additional carbohydrates. As said above - milk is a good source of protein and much cheaper which is what you need to help repair muscle. Even this may not be needed if you're doing 10 or 15 miles regularly and not as a complete newbie. Any extra carbs will potentially end up stored as fat - not what you want if trying to lose weight clearly.

Getting the balance right is the key to staying healthy and strong to ride, but also losing the weight.

slowsider

More relevantly, 10-15 miles 3 times a week will not do much to shift the spare tyre without monitoring/controlling all you eat as well, not just after the exercise.

sancho1983

Wirral_Paul wrote:

sancho1983 wrote:

Apologies for a possibly stupid question but if I'm cycling to lose weight, doing 10-15 miles 3 times per week will drinking recovery shakea/electrolytes etc. compromise any of the weight loss benefits?

At that level then to be honest - you're not going to benefit from additional recovery drinks if you have a proper healthy diet. You'd have to be doing some serious work in those 10 miles to deplete your energy reserves enough to need any real additional carbohydrates. As said above - milk is a good source of protein and much cheaper which is what you need to help repair muscle. Even this may not be needed if you're doing 10 or 15 miles regularly and not as a complete newbie. Any extra carbs will potentially end up stored as fat - not what you want if trying to lose weight clearly.

Getting the balance right is the key to staying healthy and strong to ride, but also losing the weight.

That's what I thought, I'll stick to water only.

slowsider wrote:

More relevantly, 10-15 miles 3 times a week will not do much to shift the spare tyre without monitoring/controlling all you eat as well, not just after the exercise.

I'm going on the theory that if I eat a little bit less (and better) - plus cycle 40-50 miles per week (which is considerably more than 0) then I will lose weight - maybe not loads and loads, but some. Plus I will, hopefully, feel fitter, better etc.

slowsider

sancho1983 wrote:

I'm going on the theory that if I eat a little bit less (and better) - plus cycle 40-50 miles per week (which is considerably more than 0) then I will lose weight - maybe not loads and loads, but some. Plus I will, hopefully, feel fitter, better etc.

I'm no expert, but as long as you are using more than you are eating, you should presumably begin to lose weight. Even if you don't, then feeling fitter and better is positive
Here's a random link about Basal Metabolic Rate that may give some pointers.
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/