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deceased Fathers life insurance policies.

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  • SlackSlack Posts: 326
    You may not necessarily need to engage a solicitor at this stage. The first thing you should do is track down copies of forms PA1 and IHT205. These are the forms which the executor has to submit when applying for probate. The forms, especially IHT205, provide a breakdown of the deceased's assets and liabilities, which will give you the accurate position of your father financially.

    I think probate records are publicly available, not sure if the copies of the forms are there also. If your bro in law was the executor, then I cannot see why you would have to had to sign anything! Your late father's Will, should be a public record now, so you can double check the situation as to who was appointed executors.

    The document you scanned, appears to be just a solicitors statement. Certainly not from HMRC or probate office.
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  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    that letter seems dodgy as, would a solicitor actually use language like 'split 3 ways'. This smells fishy to me - a real midsomer mystery.
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  • GinjafroGinjafro Posts: 572
    Sorry, all very suspicious. Seek legal advise and probate details immediately.
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  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    I decided to bite the bullet and call my sister today to ask her about my dads estate e.t.c. once again she would not answer any questions or give me any details. I told her about the bike radar thread i,d started. I also told her about the comment and suggestions made by members. My sister now tells me out of the blue that if i get a solicitor she will never speak to me again. I guess i,ve hit the nail on the head. I will be calling a solicitor on Monday morning to get the ball rolling. Gents just a few questions for those legal boffins amongst you, would it be easier to get a solicitor in my home town where my Dad lived or does it not matter. Could i talk to the solicitor via telephone or would i have to make a personal appearance and how do i pay. Please remember i live in the Netherlands.Thanks to all of you for your advice and opinions as always it,s much appreciated.
    Ademort
    ademort
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  • rodgers73rodgers73 Posts: 2,626
    You can deal with one over the phone but any UK solicitor will need ID to open their file. Also the fact that you aren't based in this country might make them worry about how they're going to get paid by you. You may have to pay something upfront.

    I'm a probate solicitor so I'm not making this up.
  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    Thanks for the reply. Would a UK passport do as I.D. and could i give them my creditcard number as i have a gold mastercard or via paypal or something.
    Ademort
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  • rodgers73rodgers73 Posts: 2,626
    If they're doing their job properly they'd ask you to send notarised copies of your passport and a recent utility bill for your Dutch address before they do any work for you.

    I doubt paypal would cut it with most firms, a down payment with a CC would be possible although they may want ID before they accept any funds from you (money laundering fears).
  • rodgers73rodgers73 Posts: 2,626
    edited June 2012
    Oh, and I'd make your first contact with whoever you use is by phone not email.

    I'd assume you were a nutter a time waster or a scam artist if you emailed me from abroad asking me to help you get money off a crooked relative.
  • rodgers73rodgers73 Posts: 2,626
    If you want to make sure you're using someone who knows what they're doing on the probate front, use one who is a member of STEP.

    Membership of this organisation is basically the best evidence you can give that you know what you're doing probate-wise. Their website has a searchable directory but if this is no good ask whoever you use if they're a member. If they aren't then they might still be ok, but if they are then you should be fine.

    http://www.step.org/
  • Wirral_paulWirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    ademort wrote:
    My sister now tells me out of the blue that if i get a solicitor she will never speak to me again. I guess i,ve hit the nail on the head. I will be calling a solicitor on Monday morning to get the ball rolling.


    If that was my sister and she'd ripped me off - i wouldnt ever speak to her again. She sounds guilty as sin there - if there was nothing to hide then why is she so worried!!

    as for speaking to you again - well she can speak to your solicitor instead. Good luck and keep us all informed if you wish
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    ademort wrote:
    I decided to bite the bullet and call my sister today to ask her about my dads estate e.t.c. once again she would not answer any questions or give me any details. I told her about the bike radar thread i,d started. I also told her about the comment and suggestions made by members. My sister now tells me out of the blue that if i get a solicitor she will never speak to me again. I guess i,ve hit the nail on the head. I will be calling a solicitor on Monday morning to get the ball rolling. Gents just a few questions for those legal boffins amongst you, would it be easier to get a solicitor in my home town where my Dad lived or does it not matter. Could i talk to the solicitor via telephone or would i have to make a personal appearance and how do i pay. Please remember i live in the Netherlands.Thanks to all of you for your advice and opinions as always it,s much appreciated.
    Ademort

    If that was the reply from my sister under the same circumstances, I wouldn't want to speak to her again anyway. ademort I feel sorry for you that this has happened. Hope it all works out for you
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  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    ademort - its not about your sister or you or anyone on this forum - its about bringing to light the truth of your fathers estate and in doing so honouring your dads wishes - to get to the truth of a matter we sometimes hurt ourselves and those close to us - but the truth is there to benefit all, you, your sister, your sense of well being - best of luck and be proud that you are following your instinct to honour your fathers memory.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • It might be worth mentioning that if it is revealed that your sister's a liar and a thief the consequences could be worse than if she fesses/coughs up.
  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    It might be worth mentioning that if it is revealed that your sister's a liar and a thief the consequences could be worse than if she fesses/coughs up.
    I,ve put the cat amongst the pidgeons already and actually i,m appealing to my brother in law who i always found to be a great lad. He is the executor of the will and surely must know that the paper he handed to me was a load of bollocks. I,m hoping they see sense. I,ve also been reminded that most solicitors offices are shut this Monday due to the Queens festivities so in my opinion it gives somebody over there 1 extra day to own up and tell all. I really hope they come to there senses, but whatever happens i dont really want anything to do with my sister or brother again.They are a disgrace to my Mam and Dad and i will never forgive them for what they have done and the lies they have told to me and all our other family and friends. We are sharing everything, split 3 ways, how many times i heard that after my Dad died. They make me sick. I will keep all informed as to what happens.
    I would just like to wish all forum members a happy weekend with the Queens celebrations, dont drink too much will you.
    Ademort
    ademort
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  • ProssPross Posts: 29,628
    Good luck, a similar thing happened to a colleague of mine excpet in that case his step relatives got his sick dad to sign everything over to them. In the end he gave up the fight as he couldn't be bothered with the stress. It's a shame when your own family places greed ahead of their own father's wishes. Don't forget Tuesday is also a holiday so you probably won't get anyone until Wednesday now.
  • SlackSlack Posts: 326
    Get your facts straight first before taking any further action. As I said previously, track down the paperwork the excutor lodged with the probate office!!!! It will provide you with everyhting you need in terms of factual figures about your father's estate value!!!! You do not need to engage a solicitor at this stage. To look at the relevant papers costs you nothing and will reveal the true situation. If and when, the figures do not tie up with what you have been told, then you should engage a lawyer/soliciter.
    Plymouthsteve for councillor!!
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    OP - back up a second or two. There's so much suspicion in this thread that you and the mob have made a pair of nooses and thrown them over the nearest lamp post before getting any answers.

    That doc that you posted - it looks to me like a statement prepared by the executors of assets and liabilities in the estate. No solicitors involved because, frankly, on those figures there isn't enough money in the estate to warrant employing them. This could be why your sis is so anti the appointment of solicitors. If your and your siblings square up, the solicitors will have eaten all of that estate in about 2 months.

    Back to the core question: did your dad have life assurance? You think he did, but why? How old was he when he died? DId he have an unpaid mortgage? Did he have direct dependants? Most people have life assurance to make sure that they don't leave huge debts (mortgage) behind for their dependants to have to pay. That statement you scanned doesn't say he owned a home, and you haven't said he owned one, so why would he have life assurance?

    FWIW, most life assurance taken out is what's called term assurance: you pay a fixed premium per month for cover until you are (say) 65. You bank on having paid your mortgage off by then. You live past 65: you get nothing.

    You can get whole life cover, but it will usually get more expensive every five years or so: the insurer knows it will have to pay, and wants to get as much cover from the premiums as it can. It can get very pricey for an old guy.

    Finally, funeral expenses cover is very common. It's a form of whole life cover but for a very modest sum, so the premiums are dirt cheap.

    So do your dad's bank statements should show whether he was paying life assurance other than for funeral expenses up to the date of his death? If you don't know, because you can't see them, ask yourself this: why would your Dad have been pouring cash into life assurance when he died?

    FWIW, my Dad (retired, mortgage paid off) died a couple of years ago. I was amazed at how limited his outgoings were. He had long since dispensed with life assurance because he didn't need it once the mortgage was paid off. He had funeral expenses cover for £4k (funeral parlours will extract more than that from you, btw; they are utterly shameless and exploitative) and that was it.

    Just explain to your b-in-law your concerns, and ask to see the last six weeks of your Dad's bank accounts to put your mind at rest. He will have those as executor. Getting solicitors involved will cost you a ton for potentially no reward.

    Let us know how you get on.

    BTW an English solicitor will want money up front before he does anything (he may take credit cards; he may not. Think £1000-3000 for starters); and he will want to see notorised i-d if you are staying in Holland before he accepts money from you. He will also ask you early on "why do you think your father had life assurance? ". Answering "because I do" won't be good enough.
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  • Wirral_paulWirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    Greg66 wrote:
    OP - back up a second or two. There's s much suspicion in this thread that the mob have made a noose and thrown it over the nearest lamp post before getting any answers.

    That doc that you posted - it looks to me like a statement prepared by the executors of assets and liabilities in the estate. No solicitors involved because, frankly, on those figures there isn't enough money in the estate to warrant employing them. This could be why your sis is so anti the appointment of solicitors. If your and your siblings square up, the solicitors will have eaten all of that estate in about 2 months.

    Back to the core question: did your dad have life assurance? You think he did, but why? How old was he when he died? DId he have an unoaid mortgage? Did he have direct dependants? Most people have life assurance to make sure that they don't leave huge debts (mortgage) behind for their dependants to have to pay. That statement you scanned doesn't say he owned a home, and you haven't said he owned one, so why would he have life assurance?

    FWIW, most life assurance taken out is what's called term assurance: you pay a fixed premium per month for cover until you are (say) 65. You bank on having paid your mortgage off by then. You can get whole life cover, but it will usually get more expensive every five years or so: the insurer knows it will have to pay, and wants to get as much cover from the premiums as it can. It can get very pricey for an old guy.

    Finally, funeral expenses cover is very common. It's a form of whole life cover but for a very modest sum, so the premiums are dirt cheap.

    So you dad's bank statements should show who's whether he was paying life assurance other than for funeral expenses up to the date of his death? If you don't know, because you can't see them, ask yourself this: why would you Dad have been pouring cash into life assurance when he died?

    FWIW, my Dad (retired, mortgage paid off) died a couple of years ago. I was amazed at how limited his outgoings were. He had long since dispensed with life assurance because he didn't need it once the mortgage was paid off. He had funeral expenses cover for £4k (funeral parlours will extract more than that from you, btw; they are utterly shameless and exploitative) and that was it.

    Just explain t you sis your concerns, and ask to see the last six weeks of your Dad's bank accounts. Getting solicitors involved will cost you a ton for potentially no reward.


    Thats an awfully long post but completely misses the whole reason for the suspicion in the first place! Sudden found wealth by the brother and sister. Being demanded of to sign papers that they wouldnt let him read, and the aggression shown by the sister when asked about it. The simple threat to never speak again if he digs says it all!!

    All this long before anyone suggested solicitors to get to the bottom of the suspicion that the OP clearly had to even post here in the first place.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Either the OP's Dad had life assurance policies at the date of his death, or he didn't. That's the only question. The rest - what you refer to - won't create policies where there were none.

    Personally, I'd be surprised if someone who had an unresolved asbestos claim at their death was able to get life assurance cover. But perhaps we shall see.
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  • cornerblockcornerblock Posts: 3,228
    After every post on this thread I can't help hearing the Eastenders theme tune...doof doof doof....
  • Wirral_paulWirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    Greg66 wrote:
    Either the OP's Dad had life assurance policies at the date of his death, or he didn't. That's the only question. The rest - what you refer to - won't create policies where there were none.

    Personally, I'd be surprised if someone who had an unresolved asbestos claim at their death was able to get life assurance cover. But perhaps we shall see.

    People dont often take out life cover for £3,500 later in life when they know they have an asbestos claim - it would have been years old and all Financial Advisers would advise keeping an old life policy in the event of illness like asbestosis.

    Personally i dont think the life cover is the only question. All the cloak and dagger suggests the sister is not being open and honest - and if its all above board then why is she acting that way? If I was Ademort then thats what i'd want to know even more than the potential money. Why try and hide something if there's nothing to hide?
  • GinjafroGinjafro Posts: 572
    After every post on this thread I can't help hearing the Eastenders theme tune...doof doof doof....

    I've just tuned back in, curious, as to what is or not going on.
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  • fossyantfossyant Posts: 2,549
    Hope your relatives are being a little more reasonable. I would personally want to be able to see the documantation. You could be straight to the point and say that people have noticed your brother/sister's new found wealth !

    I'd put pressure on them as much as possible, before hitting a solicitor, or indeed getting a solicitors letter sent to them requesting the documentation be presented to you.
  • rc856rc856 Posts: 1,140
    Being totally nosy...did you ever get this resolved?
    Here's hoping
  • ademortademort Posts: 1,924
    Hi

    Without going too much into it i went to the UK and hired a solicitor. My suspicions have since been confirmed and legal action against my Brother, Sister and Brother-in law is now in progress.I,ve been informed by the solicitor that it may take some time to get it sorted out, but in all honesty i dont care. At least now i can sleep at night and i,m not sitting eating myself up about it. Sorry i cannot go into this in detail at the moment. It,s bad enough to lose my Dad but even worse when those who i trusted, my own bloody family have lied and deceived me in the way that they have.
    Ademort
    ademort
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  • msmancuniamsmancunia Posts: 1,457
    I was only thinking about this issue this morning, for some reason.

    Good on you for going with your gut feeling - hope it all gets resolved. Speaking from experience (mine's still going on, unfortunately!) it's not pleasant, but if you feel that you could still look your dad in the eye if he was still around, and justify what you've done, then you won't go wrong.
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  • mudcow007mudcow007 Posts: 3,861
    hope you get it sorted ademort

    keep us all posted
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  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    It is devastating to find family, who you should be able to trust have stolen from you. You need feel no sympathy for them as they brought this course of action upon themselves. Your only sorrow if any should be on the break up of the family union. However, that break up was instigated through their dishonesty towards you. I hope your solicitor goes the whole hog and involves the police so that the wider range of offences can be looked at and that full compensation for your losses can be sought.

    Good luck.
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  • Redhog14Redhog14 Posts: 1,377
    Goodluck mate, although I am sure this will be a long road for you I think you have done the right thing by you and your dad.
  • GinjafroGinjafro Posts: 572
    Just to say Good Luck and hope that you see justice eventually.
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