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Giro Stage 21 'spoiler'

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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,540 Lives Here
    Controversial statement alert: disappointed ryder won. Not that he wasn't the strongest, he was, but because he's so free of charisma or emotion. Even his style on the bike looks unclassy.

    He deserves it, but I'd like a bit more to go on than just his riding! Not that he or anyone else should care.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 17,158
    Good job Scarponi rode so defensively yesterday - he secured 4th place.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,803
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Good job Scarponi rode so defensively yesterday - he secured 4th place.

    I know! The Italian Allergy to the wind strikes again!

    I try to be positive about riders and races, but I can't think of any Italian ones that I really admire...Serves them right none of them made the podium.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Controversial statement alert: disappointed ryder won. Not that he wasn't the strongest, he was, but because he's so free of charisma or emotion. Even his style on the bike looks unclassy.

    He deserves it, but I'd like a bit more to go on than just his riding! Not that he or anyone else should care.

    To be fair, what more is there to say when the questions are so rubbish! I like his dead pan answers.

    http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/5145

    And yes, he doesn't look that great on a bike, all arms and legs. A bit gangly. But then it's like that for us tall people! :D
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 17,805
    The TTT has had a big effect on this race

    Katusha put J Rod into the race with a huge performance.

    De Gendt was 1'10 behind after the TTT (finished 1'39 behind)




    In other news I want a Canyon.
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,803
    hmmm, see I don't think TTT's should be in GT's....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    ddraver wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Good job Scarponi rode so defensively yesterday - he secured 4th place.

    I know! The Italian Allergy to the wind strikes again!

    I try to be positive about riders and races, but I can't think of any Italian ones that I really admire...Serves them right none of them made the podium.

    Scarponi was never going to chase with Cunego up the road. And I don't think Rodriguez did much work at the front either.
  • Tom BBTom BB Posts: 1,001
    ddraver wrote:
    Or cleaner riding??

    I'd say so yeah. I'm pretty sure that we're seeing cleaner racing at the sharp end and as others have said, when the high paces are set on the mountians that bring the group down to the GC favourites, they're all too knackered to kick on again....
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    iainf72 wrote:
    Does anyone know how many bonus seconds J-Rod took vs Ryder? I suspect that might make it look closer than it actually was.

    Closer? I though Rodriguez took more, didn't he?

    That's what I mean. Without bonus seconds, J-Rod was probably only in 2nd place, or close to it before the TT today.

    On the red novelty jersey - J-Rod top 5'd 7 times, Cavendish 4.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 17,158
    ddraver wrote:
    hmmm, see I don't think TTT's should be in GT's....

    The sponsors like them. I think they should have a 5km prologue, and then have a proper race. That way not much time is lost and everyone is happy.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 17,158
    ddraver wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Good job Scarponi rode so defensively yesterday - he secured 4th place.

    I know! The Italian Allergy to the wind strikes again!

    I try to be positive about riders and races, but I can't think of any Italian ones that I really admire...Serves them right none of them made the podium.

    Scarponi was never going to chase with Cunego up the road. And I don't think Rodriguez did much work at the front either.

    He didn't have to drag them up to Cunego, he could have ditched them a little earlier than he did, but he left it too late - he left it until the point where there was no risk of losing 4th place, and J-Rod could come back with his sprint.

    J-Rod at least had a decent crack at winning. Maybe he could have done things better, but a close 2nd is not bad.
  • kantokanto Posts: 112
    edited May 2012
    Controversial statement alert: disappointed ryder won. Not that he wasn't the strongest, he was, but because he's so free of charisma or emotion. Even his style on the bike looks unclassy.

    He deserves it, but I'd like a bit more to go on than just his riding! Not that he or anyone else should care.

    This is how I feel too, and although I like Rodriguez in one day races, and when he is on the short 1-2 KM climbs, as a grand tour rider in the mountains he isn't entertaining like many of the climbers. Sadly as someone stated in yesterday's thread, there wasn't much competition. I thought Pozzo would liven it up, but it seemed a false hope. Then you have riders like Basso who are even worse to watch than Ryder.

    I found this to be one of the dullest grand tours for quite a years now and whilst the Giro always usually provides better entertainment/routes than the TDF, the past few giros haven't been good. Although I probably enjoyed last year's Giro because at least there were some serious attacks from riders like Scarponi, and you got to see a master at the peak of his powers, attacking and attacking on a brutal course, showing how it should be done. Whilst I didn't like Contador's utter dominance, it sure does beat a grand tour like we had this year.

    TDG rode like a spartan yesterday, and that is by far my fondest memory of this Giro. One of the best solo attacks I've seen for a long time.

    God forbid we have a rider like Wiggins win the TDF as well :o which I wouldn't be surprised.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    kanto wrote:

    I found this to be one of the dullest grand tours for quite a years now and whilst the Giro always usually provides better entertainment/routes than the TDF, the past few giros haven't been good. Although I probably enjoyed last year's Giro because at least there were some serious attacks and you got to see a master at the peak of his powers, attacking and attacking on a brutal course, showing how it should be done.

    You forget the 2010 Giro which is probably in the top 5 best Grand Tours ever.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    ddraver wrote:
    hmmm, see I don't think TTT's should be in GT's....

    You like a variety of stages, but not the TTT? I have no problem with them, as long as they aren't too long. Don't want to see a rider being completely eliminated from the GC because of it, but like to see team take advantage if they are prepared to invest the time and money.
  • kantokanto Posts: 112
    iainf72 wrote:
    kanto wrote:

    I found this to be one of the dullest grand tours for quite a years now and whilst the Giro always usually provides better entertainment/routes than the TDF, the past few giros haven't been good. Although I probably enjoyed last year's Giro because at least there were some serious attacks and you got to see a master at the peak of his powers, attacking and attacking on a brutal course, showing how it should be done.

    You forget the 2010 Giro which is probably in the top 5 best Grand Tours ever.

    Exactly. 2010 was one of the best races I've ever seen and had so many interesting stages, and riders, and I'd rather watch the Strade Bianchi stage alone, rather than the 3 weeks of 2012. That stage alone provided more entertainment than this years whole tour.
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    iainf72 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Does anyone know how many bonus seconds J-Rod took vs Ryder? I suspect that might make it look closer than it actually was.

    Closer? I though Rodriguez took more, didn't he?

    That's what I mean. Without bonus seconds, J-Rod was probably only in 2nd place, or close to it before the TT today.

    On the red novelty jersey - J-Rod top 5'd 7 times, Cavendish 4.

    I sort of like the points competition at the Giro. If they had allocated the points in the same way as the do at the Tour, it would have been decided a week ago. Added an extra dimension to the mountain stages, especially when on the last two of them it looked like Rodriguez was going to finish 5th, only to jump past Scarponi!
  • Tom BBTom BB Posts: 1,001
    I think everyone would rather watch that Strade Bianchi again stage over almost any other bike race ever!!
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    TheBigBean wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Good job Scarponi rode so defensively yesterday - he secured 4th place.

    I know! The Italian Allergy to the wind strikes again!

    I try to be positive about riders and races, but I can't think of any Italian ones that I really admire...Serves them right none of them made the podium.

    Scarponi was never going to chase with Cunego up the road. And I don't think Rodriguez did much work at the front either.

    He didn't have to drag them up to Cunego, he could have ditched them a little earlier than he did, but he left it too late - he left it until the point where there was no risk of losing 4th place, and J-Rod could come back with his sprint.

    J-Rod at least had a decent crack at winning. Maybe he could have done things better, but a close 2nd is not bad.

    I'm not suggesting that Scarponi did the right thing, I think you are right, he got his tactics wrong and lost a podium place because of it. I said on yesterday's thread, he probably should have put someone on the front along with Garmin on the valley road and closed down the gap to De Gendt. Easy to say it now though.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,540 Lives Here
    kanto wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    kanto wrote:

    I found this to be one of the dullest grand tours for quite a years now and whilst the Giro always usually provides better entertainment/routes than the TDF, the past few giros haven't been good. Although I probably enjoyed last year's Giro because at least there were some serious attacks and you got to see a master at the peak of his powers, attacking and attacking on a brutal course, showing how it should be done.

    You forget the 2010 Giro which is probably in the top 5 best Grand Tours ever.

    Exactly. 2010 was one of the best races I've ever seen and had so many interesting stages, and riders, and I'd rather watch the Strade Bianchi stage alone, rather than the 3 weeks of 2012. That stage alone provided more entertainment than this years whole tour.

    Jeez, you have pretty high standards if they're what you're comparing things to! They're as good as GT's will ever get.

    The main question is was this GT worth the effort invested to watch. After all, they take time, effort, and commitment to watch. This GT would fall into the yes catagory for me.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,803
    ddraver wrote:
    hmmm, see I don't think TTT's should be in GT's....

    You like a variety of stages, but not the TTT? I have no problem with them, as long as they aren't too long. Don't want to see a rider being completely eliminated from the GC because of it, but like to see team take advantage if they are prepared to invest the time and money.


    The reason is that it skews what is (ostensibly) an individual event. It can eliminate a genuine GT contender through no fault of their own (Cadel at Lotto being one of the better examples of recent years...). I know cycling is a strange sport in this regard but I think the TTT does nt add anything to the event but can take a lot away.

    I think if you have to have time bonuses in a GT, this is the best balance I ve seen, but I don't like it when they determine the overall event (a la Cobo at last years Vuelta). Fair play to J-Rod, good ride, but if Gilbert or Sagan had been here too, he'd could have been further behind for the same "riding time"
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    ddraver wrote:
    The reason is that it skews what is (ostensibly) an individual event. It can eliminate a genuine GT contender through no fault of their own (Cadel at Lotto being one of the better examples of recent years...). I know cycling is a strange sport in this regard but I think the TTT does nt add anything to the event but can take a lot away.

    That's why I was suggesting keeping it short, maybe even as short as 10km. I'd rather watch something like that than another flat stage at the Tour.
    ddraver wrote:
    I think if you have to have time bonuses in a GT, this is the best balance I ve seen, but I don't like it when they determine the overall event (a la Cobo at last years Vuelta). Fair play to J-Rod, good ride, but if Gilbert or Sagan had been here too, he'd could have been further behind for the same "riding time"

    Now I'm not very keen on time bonuses...
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,803
    Yep I agree...If you have to have it make it so short that it's insignificant - Hell just do it as an 8 man Team Pursuit! ;)

    Not sure about time bonuses, They re a bit of fun in the first week so the sprinters/roulers/breakaway specialist/puncheurs have something extra to fight over but that's all. It's a shame they can't ll be annulled after the first TT/mountain stage :P
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Just had a look. I think J-Rod has 28s worth of time bonuses.

    Ryder had none
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Here you go Rick, I know you like kids on the podium. :D

    2012_giro_d_italia_stage21_tt_joaquim_rodriguez_podium_kids1a.jpg
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,803
    Awww, Junior and Senior's hair both have the same tuft at the front...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    And Senior is taller than his Dad already!
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Oh, is that his son? I thought Domenico Pozzovivo had climbed on stage.
  • dougzzdougzz Posts: 1,833
    Well doesn't the mtn goat know with the tt coming up what he's got to do.
    Yep, but having the TT at the end means the TTer knows precisely, and on a stage where he has his DS in the car behind to provide exact pace information. By reversing this (not always, just every other year say) the mountain boy has to make up a precise amount and can react accordingly, or maybe not, but at least he'd have that specific target.
    The mental aspect can't be overlooked. How often does a 5 minute break result in 2:30 difference across the line, because mentally it's always easier to chase, and particularly in the final Km where a rider goes all in.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Getty
    9160df2c22dc7b705b42e64dd1ba106e-getty-511250579.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    “I had to fight for this Giro d’Italia. As we got off the mountain in the helicopter and as descended to Milan yesterday, I knew I still had a shot. I felt incredible on bike pre-riding and knew I could do it in the time trial.”
    “The first day I pulled on the pink jersey I knew I was good and had accomplished something great. That made me go even harder. Getting compliments from my rivals gave me even more confidence. Hat’s off to them, they’re all great champions but once we were in the third week and I was doing the rides I was doing, I knew it was possible.”

    “My success is down to consistent hard work and by improving a little all the time. I think I showed my ability in the 2010 Tour de France. I had problems in the 2011 Tour but I still showed my ability in the third week. I got the opportunity to focus 100% on the Giro d’Italia this year and the team said I was the designated leader. It doesn’t happen often in a rider’s career to be leader in such a prestigious event, so I came with good legs and wanted to do my very best. The team was excellent and gave it everything. I won this race day after day, by doing my best. That’ what it takes.”

    “The guys were even more believing than me at some points. They gave everything. They especially proud of me and I’m especially proud of what they for me. It was great to be on the podium together as the super team of the Giro d’Italia. It’s going to be a good night…”

    “The support for me back home has been unreal. I saw one tweet about a guy going into Canada Tire and asking for the pink Garmin-Barracuda jersey…. I think people now know what’s going on at home. I think they appreciate the Giro d’Italia and I hope my win will help Canadian cycling go a long way.”
    Contador is the Greatest
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