If you voted for Boris Johnson feel ashamed

prj45
prj45 Posts: 2,208
edited October 2012 in Commuting chat
Mr Johnson caused uproar among cyclists by claiming that 62 per cent of people killed or seriously injured while riding a bicycle were breaking the rules of the road when they were knocked off their bikes.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cy ... 423623.ece
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Comments

  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    That sounds like a made-up load of old trousers tome, where did he get that figure from? If it is plucked out of thin air it's a bit rough for the relatives of cyclists who've been killed on the roads.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    And who's to say he's not right? I can't for one minute imagine he strolled into a press briefing and plucked the number out of thin air, and also don't accept that he discovered the 62% figure through his own investigations. Which leads to the inevitable conclusion that someone in his office supply chain has managed to woof up a number that suits the agenda, and probably has some validity depending on how the numbers are constructed.

    Obviously though it's Boris, so has to be an open & shut case of aving a pop at im. Gor blimey eh?
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    I think the key thing is where the number has come from.

    Seeing as the DfT did their own study that put the percentage of collisions involving cyclists where the cyclist was to blame in the single figures.

    If it's a valid figure then something needs to be done re education of cyclists, and of drivers to avoid cyclists who are doing unpredictable things.
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Origamist
    Origamist Posts: 807
    edited May 2012
    CiB wrote:
    And who's to say he's not right? I can't for one minute imagine he strolled into a press briefing and plucked the number out of thin air, and also don't accept that he discovered the 62% figure through his own investigations. Which leads to the inevitable conclusion that someone in his office supply chain has managed to woof up a number that suits the agenda, and probably has some validity depending on how the numbers are constructed.

    Obviously though it's Boris, so has to be an open & shut case of aving a pop at im. Gor blimey eh?

    Quite. If I'm hit by a car pulling out of a junction at midnight and they examine my bike and discover that I did not have a rear reflector, I could conceivably be categorised as one of the 62% breaking the "rules of the road" even though it had no bearing on the cause of the collision.

    It would be good to see the metrics and data set for the figure quoted.
    Folders
  • SimonAH
    SimonAH Posts: 3,730
    I suspect (no evidence at all other than observational) that the percentage figure for London would be an order of magnitude higher than for the nation as a whole.
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  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    Breaking the 'rules of the road' or the 'law' - being a bit pedantic!

    So, 62% of cyclists were breaking the 'rules of the road' when they got mashed.....seems about right for a big urban sprawl like London. At leat 50% of the people I see cycling daily are breaking the 'rules of the road' and I am sure I probably break some rules, without knowing it!

    As for breaking the 'laws' around the road, I am very cautious about that and I don't believe that I break any laws.....I do see allot of people breaking the law's that I am aware of though.....pavements, RLJ...for example.
  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    Only 62%?

    If by the 'Rules of the Road' he means this then I for one would fail (I don't always wear a helmet, often don't wear reflective clothing, haven't got amber pedal reflectors for starters)
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • Initialised
    Initialised Posts: 3,047
    walkingbootweather wrote:
    Only 62%?

    If by the 'Rules of the Road' he means this then I for one would fail (I don't always wear a helmet, often don't wear reflective clothing, haven't got amber pedal reflectors for starters)
    That's a 'should' not a 'Must' so not a rule [/pedantry]
    I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    He should really know better than to throw comments like that around. Sounds almost like it was intended to provoke.
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  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    Initialised wrote:
    walkingbootweather wrote:
    Only 62%?

    If by the 'Rules of the Road' he means this then I for one would fail (I don't always wear a helmet, often don't wear reflective clothing, haven't got amber pedal reflectors for starters)
    That's a 'should' not a 'Must' so not a rule [/pedantry]
    The Highway Code wrote:
    It (your bike) MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors)

    [/pedantry] right back at ya :wink:
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    notsoblue wrote:
    He should really know better than to throw comments like that around. Sounds almost like it was intended to provoke.

    you think?

    cycling bloggers/campaigners supported ken and made no security of the fact, didn't even Sustrans make pro ken comments/anti boris comments?

    this wouldn't be the first nor the last dig i suspect.
  • BillyMansell
    BillyMansell Posts: 817
    walkingbootweather wrote:
    Initialised wrote:
    walkingbootweather wrote:
    Only 62%?

    If by the 'Rules of the Road' he means this then I for one would fail (I don't always wear a helmet, often don't wear reflective clothing, haven't got amber pedal reflectors for starters)
    That's a 'should' not a 'Must' so not a rule [/pedantry]
    The Highway Code wrote:
    It (your bike) MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors)

    [/pedantry] right back at ya :wink:
    Further pedantry - reflectors are only a MUST if riding at night, which may apply in your case even if only part of the year.
  • walkingbootweather
    walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
    BillyMansell wrote:
    Further pedantry - reflectors are only a MUST if riding at night, which may apply in your case even if only part of the year.

    You might be right, but I read it that you MUST have lights at night, but MUST have reflectors at all times - realistically it is often possible to conveniently remove lights; to remove reflectors you would need tools.

    Either way I can think of many better reasons for feeling ashamed of voting for Boris :wink:
    Nobody told me we had a communication problem
  • Sharkyssurfers
    Sharkyssurfers Posts: 767
    well just i came into the office, there were debating this on sky, didnt catch much of it, so if anyone watched would be interesting to see there views, from what i can tell the presenters were biased against cyclists
    Sorry its not me it's the bike ;o)

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  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    http://lcc.org.uk/articles/mayor-unable ... ng-the-law
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Thought that sounded a bit odd.

    Last time I looked at the figures when i was arguing about segregation it was very much drivers more often than cyclists IIRC.
    _
  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    With adult cyclists, police found the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... ents-study

    Boris's statement reverses this finding.
  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    And a new 'fact' is born.... :roll:
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Origamist
    Origamist Posts: 807
    I think we'll be waiting quite a while for the figures Boris conjured up...
    Folders
  • Butterd2
    Butterd2 Posts: 937
    Sorry but I can only feel joy when I think back to Ken's petty, bitter loosing speech :D .
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  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    We don't know what Boris meant, exactly, but the reaction is that he is blaming the dead which isn't what he said.
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    roger merriman wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    He should really know better than to throw comments like that around. Sounds almost like it was intended to provoke.

    you think?

    cycling bloggers/campaigners supported ken and made no security of the fact, didn't even Sustrans make pro ken comments/anti boris comments?

    this wouldn't be the first nor the last dig i suspect.

    Either way its pretty shameful, isn't it? He's wilfully misrepresenting the situation.

    So much for rational, evidence based policy making.
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  • davmaggs
    davmaggs Posts: 1,008
    notsoblue wrote:
    Either way its pretty shameful, isn't it? He's wilfully misrepresenting the situation.

    So much for rational, evidence based policy making.

    Since when has policy come out of evidence?

    This week alone a serious report into employment law reforms was watered down to suit political views, as has drug law, welfare to work and whatever else is often opposed on this forum.
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    notsoblue wrote:
    roger merriman wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    He should really know better than to throw comments like that around. Sounds almost like it was intended to provoke.

    you think?

    cycling bloggers/campaigners supported ken and made no security of the fact, didn't even Sustrans make pro ken comments/anti boris comments?

    this wouldn't be the first nor the last dig i suspect.

    Either way its pretty shameful, isn't it? He's wilfully misrepresenting the situation.

    So much for rational, evidence based policy making.

    sadly arounds bikes, the bloggers, newspapers, politicians all wilfully use stats for their own advantage. This is a Dig at the bike lobby, not cyclist them selfs.
  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    Dimwits:

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/environment/bik ... pe=article
  • Origamist
    Origamist Posts: 807
    edited May 2012
    If it's true that Boris got the 62% figure from a "member of the public" (quite plausibly, a cabbie or Jeremy Clarkson) it beggars belief that he would authoritatively quote this source in City Hall without checking its veracity (although he does have form in this area). I suspect his underlings are desperately contacting TFL, DfT and TRL to find any causal casualty stats that come even close to matching this figure. My guess is that this claim will be retracted or they'll say it refers "approximately" to child cycling KSIs.
    Folders
  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    We seem to have the truly strange scenario where anything anyone says to Boris becomes FACT in his head.
  • prj45
    prj45 Posts: 2,208
    mybreakfastconsisted wrote:
    We seem to have the truly strange scenario where anything anyone says to Boris becomes FACT in his head.


    It's been my opinion for a long time that Boris Johnson's policies are based around what the last person he spoke to said to him.

    LCC picked up on it now, looking forward to what form the retraction will take!

    http://lcc.org.uk/articles/mayor-unable ... ng-the-law

    (andrew boff AM in the comments, defensive c***t)
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  • mybreakfastconsisted
    mybreakfastconsisted Posts: 1,018
    Andrew Boff does a lot for cyclists, he pops up in the comments here too:

    http://lydall.standard.co.uk/2011/12/16 ... afety.html

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