Orange frames

Maddog1979

Can someone explain the differences between the patriot, 222,223 and 224 frames..

Which one should i go for (2nd hand) to start building my own dh rig? I've only got £250 to play with for the frame.

Cheers

rockmonkeysc

I guess you mean the old Patriot?
The Patriot came in several different versions with different amounts of travel, freeride & all mountain bikes. Ride nicely but do tend to crack at the top shock mount.
The 222 was Oranges first 200mm travel DH bike, the 223 replaced it and was a bit better, the 224 replaced that and rides extremely well. Handles really well with really nice rear suspension. The one thing which puts me off is that they all rattle like a sack of spanners, even when there is nothing wrong. Go to any DH race & you can hear an Orange coming from a mile away!
Solid bike though but go for the newest you can get.
Watch out for dud shocks. You probably won't know they are dead until the bike is built.

ilovedirt

The patriot was not a DH bike, had 6" of travel (on the LT version) and didn't really ride that nicely.

The 222 was their first proper 8" downhill bike with a 222mm stroke shock.
The 223 was the same but had a wider (150mm rather than 135mm) rear axle, and was capable of taking a 240mm rear shock for 10" of travel, which was basically pointless unless you were a huck monster. The geometry was also pretty strange. I certainly wouldn't call it better than a 222.... (trust me, I have one)

The 224 had 8" of travel with a 240mm shock, totally redesigned frame which was lighter, more modern looking and with a lower pivot point, so better pedalling (moderately).

As rockmonkey said, they all sound like a bag of spanners being thrown down the trail. All are relatively decent though, but don't really compete with modern downhill bikes. Get the newest one you can, just don't get a patriot. It's not a downhill bike.

rockmonkeysc

Patriot is an ok freeride bike, don't ever fit longer than 170mm forks though as it makes the BB too high. The 224 is still in production (with minor tweaks) and still does ok in racing though factory backed teams have been riding various prototypes for a few years now.

Maddog1979

What about the patriot 7+ ?

Seems better than the standard patriot but not as full on as the 222 etc

rockmonkeysc

Still has the shock mount issue but is basically the 180mm travel version of the Patriot.
If your looking for an older used frame for DH / FR then have a look for a Santa Cruz Bullit. They are absolutely solid, ride really nicely will take a 180mm single crown or 200mm dual crown fork and are reasonably cheap.
Be careful if your looking at frames foraround £250 as a shock repair/service & new set of bearings could cost more than that.

This could also be worth watching:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norco-Line-03 ... 2ebe4303b7

styxd

Im not aware of any shock mount issues on Patriot 7+ frames or the later Patriot 66's. The shock mounts tended to crack on the frames upto about 2003. In 2003 they altered them.

A Patriot 66 would be my choice out of the patriots due to the better geometry which you can adjust as you see fit. Ive seen one used with Boxxers as a DH bike and it looked decent.

The Patriot 7+ frames came with the 5th element shock which had a tendancy to "blow up" and lose its rebound damping. Not ideal.

I doubt you'll get a Patriot 66 frame for £250.

For that budget Id just get whatever's in the best condition, whether its an Orange or not. Beggars cant be choosers.

Frames to consider would be Kona Stabs/Stinky's, Specialized Big Hits, Giant DH Teams (may be your best bet), Sant Cruz Bullits (as stated above), Giant Faiths or anything else unfashionable that no one wants.

rockmonkeysc

Don't fit BoXXers to a Patriot. It makes the BB too high & it just doesn't ride at all well. Stinky's & Stab's are horrible. Big Hits are nice enough but you will be limited to an old one with a 24" rear wheel which limits tyre choice.
Other option is to save another £200 & you can then start looking at nice frames like Glory's.

styxd

The older Patriots have a BB thats high anyway, Patriot 66's and later are fine with boxxers. The BB height looks fine on this one for example

Maddog1979

I've got a set of superstar dh wheels that in haste i picked up cheap on fleabay with maxxis tyres but they are 135 rear hub so not to waste them i guess i need to look at a 222 .. i reckon i can stump up close to 400 for a frame.. just trying not to.

The hunt is on...

rockmonkeysc

The Santa Cruz Bullit has replaceable drop outs which you can change to 135mm.
Also have a look at old style Giant Reign X frames, also bomb proof & better than the new ones.

ilovedirt

I used to have a 2008 patriot, nice frame, but that adjustable shock shuttle was pointless. On anything other than the highest/steepest setting, the back wheel would rub on the frame under full compression.

I've got a 223 now, it's a pretty nice first downhill bike, geometry is decent, weight isn't too bad, can be kitted out with all modern gear and still keeps up with my mates on more modern bikes.

Maddog1979

I'm really liking the industrial look of the oranges ...

Whats with the sizings? i'm 5"9 with a 30inch leg (stumps) what size would i be looking at?

cooldad

Small


Medium


Large

Maddog1979

rockmonkeysc

Another frame worth looking for is the Marin Quake. They sell fairly cheap and ride nice enough. Really solid as well.

DodgeT

Maddog1979 wrote:

I've got a set of superstar dh wheels that in haste i picked up cheap on fleabay with maxxis tyres but they are 135 rear hub so not to waste them i guess i need to look at a 222 .. i reckon i can stump up close to 400 for a frame.. just trying not to.

The hunt is on...

I wouldn't limit your frame choice to a cheap set of wheels you bought.

Should start from the frame up when building. If you got them cheap, surely you can sell them on for little / no loss and start again.

Maddog1979

A friend of a friend is selling a 15 inch orange 222 . Would this be too small for me? I'm clueless on dh sizes.

rockmonkeysc

If your 5'9" then it probably will be too small, you would probably be better on a medium.
A lot of riders getting in to DH seem to end up riding bikes which are far too small because they believe a small bike will be easier to throw around but thats just not true. A smaller bike will be less stable, you will have your weight in the wrong place to get good balance & you will be hitting your knees on the bars.

Maddog1979

I've read on a few forums that the 222 only came in 15 inch? It just sounds a bit wrong.

Maddog1979

DodgeT wrote:

Maddog1979 wrote:

I've got a set of superstar dh wheels that in haste i picked up cheap on fleabay with maxxis tyres but they are 135 rear hub so not to waste them i guess i need to look at a 222 .. i reckon i can stump up close to 400 for a frame.. just trying not to.

The hunt is on...

I wouldn't limit your frame choice to a cheap set of wheels you bought.

Should start from the frame up when building. If you got them cheap, surely you can sell them on for little / no loss and start again.

Took your advice, the wheels i'll have to sell on , just picked up a 224 frame (black) with dhx 5 coil, hope BB, saint cranks, e13 guide, thompson post, hope QR, XT shifter, deore mech, Hope headset and club roost bars for £500

Not sure if i've over paid but... feck it.

Cant wait to get building this.

DodgeT

As long as your happy with what you got for the price, that's all that matters.

Now get it built, photo's taken and get her dirty

Maddog1979

The build will probably take me a while ... will need to save up as i want 40's on it after seeing them on the guy i bought it froms Cove Shocker.

rockmonkeysc

BoXXers are just as good as 40s but need less maintenance. Sounds like you got a good deal.

Maddog1979

Bugger, away and can't check.. Does anyone know the correct steerer tube length needed for the 224 ( for the purchase of 2nd hand forks)

DodgeT

Orange archive says head tube length is 120mm. Tube length depends on what headset / stem / spacers your gona use.
Add all these together and I guess you'll have an idea of the minimum length you'll need.

peter413

I had a 170mm steerer on my 224 with an FSA Pig headset and 32mm Boxxers. That was just enough to get through the top crown and run a small spacer on top of that so I wouldn't go for any shorter and you will have to go much longer if you are planning on using a normal stem and not a direct mount.

Don't follow that 170mm exactly either, different crowns are different thicknesses and different headsets give a different stack height so I would go longer to be on the safe side.

IanPV

Maddog, I've pm'd you

The Rookie

Holy thread resurrection Batman......fair to say he's probably got what he wanted in the last 11 months.....