Is steel real?

thelonegroover

It’s generally agreed steel frames offer a more compliant ride, to a greater or lesser extent than Aluminium frames. However, I’ve noticed, when anyone asks for steel frame recommendations, Supersonic nearly always adds that not all steel frames are ‘real’, some are harsher than aluminium.

This may well be the case, however what would be most use is a list of these harsh steel frames we should try to avoid.

Over to you Supersonic…

ilovedirt

I honestly can't tell the difference.

cooldad

Anything made out of gas pipe for starters.
But seriously....

Generally agreed by whom?

Many years ago, aluminium was a new material for frames, and they weren't always very good.
Nowadays the majority are pretty good, better design, multi butted, hydroforming etc.

But watch out for carbon - I read on the internet it disolves in the rain.

nicklouse

cooldad wrote:

Anything made out of gas pipe for starters.
But seriously....

Generally agreed by whom?

Many years ago, aluminium was a new material for frames, and they weren't always very good.
Nowadays the majority are pretty good, better design, multi butted, hydroforming etc.

But watch out for carbon - I read on the internet it disolves in the rain.

that steel aint it?

PS it is a load of bollocx.

clydefrog

I think that was a joke.

cooldad

What's bollox? Carbon dissolving?

I'm sure I read it on wwww.aiorangearebloodymarvelouslad.id.iot, official website of bloody marvelous orange riders.

Also known as the Forth Bridge bike builders club.

thelonegroover

I’m not really interested in Carbon, whether it dissolves in rain water or sulphuric acid. I know it’s supposed to smooth out trail chatter, as is titanium.

What I wanted to know is specifically: which steel 29er frames should I avoid if I want a smoother ride.

I could also ask which aluminium 29er frames are known to be smoother than others.

Titanium frames are too expensive and I don’t like the look of carbon frames.

mrmonkfinger

If you want a smooth ride, let your tyres down a bit.

Seriously.

Chunkers1980

Steel is definitely real, it will remain real for many years, less if in the sea, or more in the desert.

nicklouse

Thelonegroover wrote:

steel 29er frames

missed that out of the first post.

again i would look to the tyres.

a nice 2.35"

TBH you would have done better asking for "which steel framed 29"er as you would get some sugestions.

But look boutique not mass.

passout

The most comfy (compliant) hartail I've ridden is an On One Inbred (standard not 456) - great value bike.

Currently riding a Kinesis decade versa prestige which is still comfy (although not quite as much as the inbred perhaps) but feels a little more taunt when climbing. It's a great bike.

I used to ride a rickhopper when they only came in steel! Shows my age.

I have tried about 3 alu hardtails too but generally prefer steel although I agree that frame material is only one variable.

cooldad

passout wrote:

I used to ride a rickhopper when they only came in steel! Shows my age

I still have one, late 80's model. It's sh1t.

supersonic

It has a lot to do with contruction. In the good old 90s premium steel frames were very light - some as light as 3.5lbs, and even mid range stuff wasn't much more (think of all those cromo konas). This made them pretty whippy. They were on the limit on how thin you make the tubing. Aluminiuim frames on the other hand were usually constructed of large diameter pipes which made the frames feel stiff. 20 years on and many people still think that all alu frames are stiff, and all steel frames are compliant. A steel rod of the same dimensions as an alu one is 3 times as stiff as the alu rod! And about twice as stiff as a titanium rod, so this really does reinforce that how the frame is made has such a large impact.

But 20 years on and things have changed. With longer travel forks and harsher safety regs, steel frames have put on weight, while new techniques in forming have allowed alloy frames to become lighter and have a bit of give without effecting the strength. This is generalising somewhat, but you simply can't say that steel has a certain ride quality, it doesn't, and the same for titanium.

The same goes for carbon to an extent, but the layup does seem to absorb a lot of buzz.

nicklouse

cooldad wrote:

passout wrote:

I used to ride a rickhopper when they only came in steel! Shows my age

I still have one, late 80's model. It's sh1t.

The Astley?

oodboo

RE: 29ers
I'd like to build a 29er but off the peg via b2w is more realistic so I'm looking at the (alu) Focus Black Forest 2 29er at the mo. If build was an option I think I'd be looking at the Cotic Solaris.

mrmonkfinger

nicklouse wrote:

cooldad wrote:

passout wrote:

I used to ride a rickhopper when they only came in steel! Shows my age

I still have one, late 80's model. It's sh1t.

The Astley?

I'm never going to give mine up.

70\ʹspenguin

mrmonkfinger wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

cooldad wrote:

passout wrote:

I used to ride a rickhopper when they only came in steel! Shows my age

I still have one, late 80's model. It's sh1t.

The Astley?

I'm never going to give mine up.

Mine, never let me down...

Chunkers1980

Steel, will desert you.

oodboo

70\'sPenguin wrote:

mrmonkfinger wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

cooldad wrote:

passout wrote:

I used to ride a rickhopper when they only came in steel! Shows my age

I still have one, late 80's model. It's sh1t.

The Astley?

I'm never going to give mine up.

Mine, never let me down...

Mine never made me cry.

thelonegroover

I actually already have a 26" Inbred, this new 29er may also be used by my daughter or son. I'm guessing the difference between steel and alu is less pronounced on a 29er.

I'm not really looking for a steel 29er, I'm looking for less harsh/comfy 29er, if that turns out to be steel then OK, if someone knows a particularly smooth alu 29er, I'd consider that.

I'd still like to know if anyone has any experience of a particularly harsh steel 29er though.

YeehaaMcgee

Thelonegroover wrote:

I'm guessing the difference between steel and alu is less pronounced on a 29er.

The difference between bikes is in the build.

Clank

Don't wholly agree with that.

The frame does make a difference to the ride. Whether the difference is enough to make you care, is another issue. Suffice to say, there's a reason I ride the frame I do and not something cheaper, or more expensive, or Orange.

cooldad

I think he means the build (design and manufacture) of the frame, not necessarily the material.

Clank

cooldad wrote:

I think he means the build (design and manufacture) of the frame, not necessarily the material.

Still can't wholly agree with it. I'll stand by my original comment, but I will conceed that there are them that can take really good materials and still build some pretty nasty frames (naming no names). There are those who can throw all the tech in the world at a frame and still make something that rides like a farm gate!

YeehaaMcgee

Clank wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I think he means the build (design and manufacture) of the frame, not necessarily the material.

Still can't wholly agree with it. I'll stand by my original comment, but I will conceed that there are them that can take really good materials and still build some pretty nasty frames (naming no names).

:?
That's precisely what I said. The difference in is the build Whether it's steel, aluminium, titanium, or even fekkin unobtanium, how it's put together is what makes the difference.

thelonegroover

Clank wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I think he means the build (design and manufacture) of the frame, not necessarily the material.

Still can't wholly agree with it. I'll stand by my original comment, but I will conceed that there are them that can take really good materials and still build some pretty nasty frames (naming no names). There are those who can throw all the tech in the world at a frame and still make something that rides like a farm gate!

A name would be more use thanks!

nicklouse

Thelonegroover wrote:

A name would be more use thanks!

pick one.

Clank

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

:?
That's precisely what I said. The difference in is the build Whether it's steel, aluminium, titanium, or even fekkin unobtanium, how it's put together is what makes the difference.

Ahhh, that wasn't all that clear - you'd said 'bike' and not frame, hence my statement. But yeah, I agree with that. Good, bad or indifferent (and it's laregly subjective, anyway) there will still be a difference in ride characteristics between the materials used, but as said, it's whether that difference matters to the rider.

thelonegroover

My original post was asking anyone, (supersonic in particular) for names of known harsh steel frames, 29er or 26er, I should maybe have also added known comfy alu frames. All other things being equal (seat, bars, tyres, etc).

For example, I have read several reports that Genesis Latitude steel frames are quite ‘solid’ and that Charge steel frames are very springy.

This is the sort of feedback I was after.

Chunkers1980

Full suspension are comfy, doesn't matter what they are made out of.

styxd

And steel mountain bike frames are comfy if you're a gullible mountain biker.

Honestly though, the comfy steel frames are the light weight ones. Anything that weighs 4.5lbs or less will no doubt have a bit of a spring to it. People claiming their 456 Summer Season frames have some sort of magical "steel feel" are clearly fucking morons.