Coffee machines

weapons
weapons Posts: 367
edited May 2012 in The bottom bracket
Us cyclists must drink a lot of coffee, so can anyone recommend a good coffee machine for the home? Would like to make barista style coffees, cappucinos and lattes with a machine costing less than £200. Is that do-able given I see in John Lewis some cost as much as a Colnago? Not keen on those machines that take capsules.

Your views appreciated.
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Comments

  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    200 quid won't get you a good grinder - which you'll really need for good coffee at home - the grind needs to be fresh, let alone the machine. Rancilio Rocky and Silva for us, 600 when we got it.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    Have a read -

    viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12852407&hilit=coffee+machines

    viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12724589&hilit=coffee+machines
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    jibberjim wrote:
    200 quid won't get you a good grinder - which you'll really need for good coffee at home - the grind needs to be fresh, let alone the machine. Rancilio Rocky and Silva for us, 600 when we got it.

    Hario Slim ceramic burr grinder is only about £20. Sure it takes a while to grind enough coffee for just a single espresso, but the grind is very, very good.

    With this and even a basic Gaggio then it's possible to make better coffee than you get from most coffee shops in the UK. You need to buy good coffee though - I get mine from Hasbean.
    More problems but still living....
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    amaferanga wrote:
    Hario Slim ceramic burr grinder is only about £20. Sure it takes a while to grind enough coffee for just a single espresso, but the grind is very, very good.

    Okay, I'll concede if you want a manual grinder then there are options - the reviews seem to suggest it's a minute of grinding per double espresso though? That's awhile, but I guess I did assume a good electric grinder was required. How long do the burrs last on it?
    amaferanga wrote:
    You need to buy good coffee though - I get mine from Hasbean.

    We tend to use the Algerian's in Soho, they're good and cheap for the quality.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    jibberjim wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    Hario Slim ceramic burr grinder is only about £20. Sure it takes a while to grind enough coffee for just a single espresso, but the grind is very, very good.

    Okay, I'll concede if you want a manual grinder then there are options - the reviews seem to suggest it's a minute of grinding per double espresso though? That's awhile, but I guess I did assume a good electric grinder was required. How long do the burrs last on it?
    amaferanga wrote:
    You need to buy good coffee though - I get mine from Hasbean.

    We tend to use the Algerian's in Soho, they're good and cheap for the quality.

    It's not quick. I'd say more than a minute actually if you want a good fine grind. It works for me being the only coffee drinker in the house though. I certainly wouldn't recommend it to someone looking to make coffee for several people at a time on a regular basis.
    More problems but still living....
  • RDW
    RDW Posts: 1,900
    I have an Iberital MC2 grinder, which works well for espresso (burr grinder with continuously variable settings, not just presets):

    http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-ibe ... -auto.html

    (prices on this site are quoted without VAT).

    I'm using a Gaggia Classic espresso machine:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-RI8161- ... B0000C72XS

    Both machines are pretty much the entry level for decent espresso. I'd also suggest replacing the Gaggia plastic tamper with a decent metal one, and buying a standard filter basket to replace the pressurised basket and plastic widget ('perfect crema device') they ship with the current model (leave both of these in the box):

    http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0183-gag ... asket.html
    http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0823-57- ... amper.html
  • Bordersroadie
    Bordersroadie Posts: 1,052
    Nespresso. Works out at 30p a cup (plus the cost of the machine obviously).

    As a coffee snob and a Nespresso-hater (before I actually tried some) I thought it'd be the last thing I'd ever buy. But the stronger variety capsules done in an espresso size taste as close to a proper cafe coffee as I have tasted in a home.

    The convenience is without peer, which clinched it for me.

    If you're a doubter, I'd say have a taste and then decide. By the way I have no link with Nespresso other than as a drinker.
  • FireOnTheMountain
    FireOnTheMountain Posts: 12
    If you are on a budget then I would suggest this grinder - it performs very well for its price!

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Krups-Expert-GV ... B0002H2IOM

    But, if you are willing to spend, then get this - It's FANTASTIC!. It was a replacement after my dad dropped my Krups one...

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/KitchenAid-Arti ... 32&sr=1-21

    But whatever you do buy a burr grinder and NOT a bladed one.

    In terms of making coffee I'm pretty oldschool which means always a cafetiere for a cup of coffee. Espresso's are more complicated. Obviously you can spend almost as much on a good espresso as you can spend on a carbon frame, but this website has some good reviews of all different price ranges.

    http://www.coffeekid.com/other/newbies/espresso

    I actually haven't used one since my machine broke, being a a poor uni student I just cant justify buying a new one that is good enough quality! Now i just grind coffee uuber fine and put it in the cafetiere. I've taken to just having big cups of coffee almost as strong as espresso.

    I have no experience of latte or cappuccino though as I don't taint my coffee with anything!!!

    Whatever you do - buy good quality coffee! As Amaferanga said - Hasbean do some great coffee!
  • drummer
    drummer Posts: 246
    Have a look at www.roccoco-coffee.co.uk

    I have one of their pod machines and it's fantastic. And I'm a coffee snob!

    There is a thread on cake stop somewhere!
    chris
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I got the Delonghi EC330 for christmas last year from my father who's an enormous coffee snob.

    I'm keen. It works, it's good coffee, it's small, and it's not particularly expensive. (think you can pick one up for £120).
    http://www.johnlewis.com/230858171/Product.aspx

    230563581?$gallery$

    As far as I'm concerned, it's like a baby gaggia only cheaper.
    _
  • The Little Onion
    The Little Onion Posts: 99
    I would echo comments about burr grinders versus bladed ones

    As for what machine, I would hesitate to recommend something like the De longhi one - I have had bad experiences with very cheap espresso machines. The problem is that espresso needs relatively high temperatures and pressures, which means that in order to have any longevity, there is a minimum standard of engineering needed. The cheaper ones cut corners and inevitably break down. I had several cheap De Longhi machines which never lasted more than 6 months (thank you John Lewis for your peerless returns policies) before splashing out about £200 on a Gaggia Classic, which has lasted a few years so far, and which produces better coffee.

    I guess there are parallels between proper coffee machines versus cheapos, and proper bikes versus BSOs
  • mrushton
    mrushton Posts: 5,182
    I'd say Nespresso to save all the fanny-on. Scrumple who I think posts on BR goes to the extent of roasting his own beans so can give you more info.

    I have a Kitchen Aid burr-grinder and a Gaggia Classic machine. I only do Espresso/Americano and my partner does the occasional Cappuccino. So, the grinder does a good job but is a bit bulky. However it's got a powerful motor and should last. The Gaggia is good for the money but I would dump the portafilter handle as it cracks due to the metal core expanding/contracting and breaking the plastic. I replaced it with a commercial one from Happy Donkey (£40+). You should also get a portafilter that is open ie no spout as this allows you to see the coffee coming out. And you'll need a blind filter basket for backflushing. I'll not go into the ins/outs of these as it's on the Happy Donkey site. You should also look at how you replace the Group Head seal on your chosen machine. Takes about 45 mins on my Gaggia. The seal is what the basket presses against when you turn the handle and involves some minor engineering (imo) removing the group head. You HAVE to do this occasionally as the coffee won't come out right also old coffee builds up in the group head and you have to clean it out. Note that with these machines temperature/cleanliness/pressure are vital. Read the recent bit in the Telegraph about coffee geeks. One of the best tips I can give is to go on a Barista course to understand about grind/temperature/volume etc. I should say if you have children you won't have time for all this hence my Nespresso tip. You will find that your coffee varies per grind/per beans, even the temp. throughout the day can influence the results.
    M.Rushton
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I have had a Gaggia Classic for about 6 years now. It took me two years before I worked out how to make decent coffee (read various forums and the penny dropped). I adjusted the pump pressure (it was over pressured as standard) and fitted a steam wand from a Rancilio Silvia (which would be my choice for a domestic machine if I had £400).

    One problem with some other cheap domestic machines is that they don't have a brass Portafilter. This is important in maintaining the temperature during the espresso process. (My filter handle has been fine after 6 years use, no cracks).

    I have changed the group head seal several times, probably roughly once a year. They cost about £2.50. The trick to removing them is to use two screws driven into the rubber, it pulls the seal off. Takes about 10 minutes all in to change the seal and clean things up.

    I have the machine on a plug in timer so it can have a half hour warm up before I get up in the morning.

    I use a blind filter to backflush with Puly tablets once a week.

    I use a Gaggia MM grinder, their cheapest burr grinder, works well enough given the price, but I aspire to a more expensive one. One thing it took a while to get to grips with was the need to vary the grind for different coffee beans; it makes no sense to me why some should grind coarser on the same grinder setting, but they do. I aim for the brew to pass through in 25 seconds. I bought a lined shot glass (lined at 1oz / 30mm) so that I could learn the balance of grind / machine pressure (which I adjusted) to get the full extraction in 25 seconds.

    I bought a decent tamper for about £20; heavy stainless steel head with a nice wooden handle.

    I have used Happy Donkey for some spares and supplies but google searching sometimes finds cheaper sources.

    I get my "best" coffee from a local roaster in Bristol ("Twodays" - because no coffee is roasted more than two days ago). The owner actually gave me a quick lesson as he sold me a takeaway coffee, picked up lots of tips.

    For everyday coffee I buy some from a local Italian shop (Caffe Mako, from Naples). It's a third of the price of my Twodays "best" but I can't afford that for everyday.

    Nevertheless, as I get better at the whole thing I get far more fantastic coffees than just average ones.

    One final thing about the Gaggia Classic, it is quite open to diy repair or diy mods; the assembly is robust (stainless steel) and simple, easy to get into, and most of the components are available seperately as they are mainstream parts rather than dedicated Gaggia components. There is plenty of help online, including complete parts diagrams and numbers. Many comparably priced machines won't be user serviceable in this way, and will have flimsier assemblies (including other Gaggia models). I think the Gaggia Classic has to be the best option if on a limited budget.

    I would consider Nespresso, the coffee is surprisingly good (I would like one for the office), but I do enjoy the ritual of making my coffee from scratch, which only takes me about 4 minutes for a latte / cappucino from bean to cup.
  • weapons
    weapons Posts: 367
    Thanks for your advice guys. Clearly some dedicated coffee drinkers/makers out there!

    I can't bring myself to use pods/Nespresso type machines. Too much waste and packaging for my environmental conscience.

    It looks like it'll be the Gaggia Classic. Though I've just mastered all my bicycle mechanics and it looks like I'll need to spend more time learning to mechanic another machine!
  • jordan_217
    jordan_217 Posts: 2,580
    Coffee from Has Beans is worth a look. I work with a Team of Software Developers and they have a 'coffee club' (no really!) and they rate this place highly. I pay as I drink sometimes and have to admit it makes a nice cup of hot brown:

    http://hasbean.co.uk/
    “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”
  • Pep
    Pep Posts: 501
    not what you were asking for but after drinking coffee for a quarter of century these are my favourites

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Caffettiera-3-c ... 228&sr=8-4

    Never mind in Italy you would be paying a quarter of the price, but coffee here in UK pretends to be posh...
  • drummer
    drummer Posts: 246
    weapons wrote:
    Thanks for your advice guys. Clearly some dedicated coffee drinkers/makers out there!

    I can't bring myself to use pods/Nespresso type machines. Too much waste and packaging for my environmental conscience.

    It looks like it'll be the Gaggia Classic. Though I've just mastered all my bicycle mechanics and it looks like I'll need to spend more time learning to mechanic another machine!

    Trust me pal, have a look at the machine's Roccoco-coffee stock.
    You WILL NOT be disappointed!

    The pods aren't plastic, it's like a tea bag. I got 100 for about 19 quid.

    The espresso is PERFECT!

    I had a Gaggia and this RDL machine blinds it!
    chris
  • drummer
    drummer Posts: 246
    Weapons! Have a read of this link pal!

    viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12853008
    chris
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I think the RDL machines take 44mm ESE pods, which the Gaggia Classic and many others can use; the machine looks good though! (It is because the Classic comes set with a default pressure for the ESE pods, 13bar, that I had to reduce it a bit).
  • drummer
    drummer Posts: 246
    alfablue wrote:
    I think the RDL machines take 44mm ESE pods, which the Gaggia Classic and many others can use; the machine looks good though! (It is because the Classic comes set with a default pressure for the ESE pods, 13bar, that I had to reduce it a bit).

    I love my machine & I'd recommend the Fida coffee too.

    Have you tried an aero-press pal? Cheap! Quick & easy!
    chris
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    The Aeropress does look good! I have considered it for the campervan. For cycle tours I use one of these, and for the campervan I have a Pezzetti Steel Express 10 cup stove top for the camper , it makes 500ml coffee (not true espresso of course), and it is a beautiful bit of italian design. Quite hard to find in UK, got it from my local Italian shop who imports them, cost £24, same idea as the more common aluminium models, but nicer.
    1b.jpg.

    I also considered the Handpresso for camping/cycle tours. Slightly pricier, but looks like it could be good.

    Sorry, gone off topic
  • drummer
    drummer Posts: 246
    alfablue wrote:
    The Aeropress does look good! I have considered it for the campervan. For cycle tours I use one of these, and for the campervan I have a Pezzetti Steel Express 10 cup stove top for the camper , it makes 500ml coffee (not true espresso of course), and it is a beautiful bit of italian design. Quite hard to find in UK, got it from my local Italian shop who imports them, cost £24, same idea as the more common aluminium models, but nicer.
    1b.jpg.

    I also considered the Handpresso for camping/cycle tours. Slightly pricier, but looks like it could be good.

    Sorry, gone off topic
    I've seen a handpresso up close. I'd been tempted but when I saw it I was put off. I think it's more of a gimmick thing.
    chris
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    You're all wrong. I've been at an exhibition at the NEC for the pact couple of days, and have found the best coffee machine out there. We had said machine on our stand.

    It consisted of two exceptionally pretty girls who ground beans for every coffee that they made. They then used a red machine to produce exceptionally good coffee. I sampled Espressos, Lattes, Americanos, Capuccinos and can report that all of them were fantastic. I was whizzed of my t*ts by about 11am each day.

    To conclude; the best coffee machine is red, quite large, and is fed with freshly ground coffee by two pretty girls.
    Not sure where you can buy these from though.

    ps. sorry, no photos, I may have got in trouble for that !
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Swansea_Dave
    Swansea_Dave Posts: 73
    I have an Aeropress in the office and have been using it every day, more or less, for 2 years or so. It still works 100%. The coffee is great but it works on an odd, ar5e-backwards principle - it filters off the crema (i.e. the nice bubbly bit on the top of an espresso). Oh, and it looks like a very dodgy vacuum enlarger (apparently).....

    At home we are heavy users and have a Rancilio Silvia. Its about 4 years old and is completely spiffing.
  • Loretta Damage
    Loretta Damage Posts: 270
    I've got a Francis Francis, does the job. Easy to use, copes with my heavy handed usage and makes a gleaming cup of coffee.
  • FireOnTheMountain
    FireOnTheMountain Posts: 12
    Nothing to do with the machine but, this company do some of the best coffee I have ever had!

    Unfortunately they only ship within North America, so this post is pretty much completely useless!

    http://www.kickapoocoffee.com/
  • drummer
    drummer Posts: 246
    Try Fida coffee from www.roccoco-coffee.co.uk
    It's Italian and according to the website it's the coffee of choice in many cafe's in Lazio.

    I have the pods for my machine and the beans for my aero-press, really happy with taste and quality.

    Gve it a try!!

    I also quite like Segafreddo
    chris
  • alanjay
    alanjay Posts: 363
    For those that like freshly ground blends you could do a lot worse that try www.eightpointnine.com. I get a supply/fix weekly and genuinely look forward to it arriving!!

    Use code XBJY8NJ and you get a free one and I get my next one half price...

    Enjoy.
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I compiled some notes about mods, repairs and use for the Gaggia Classic for anyone interested. Any additional tips or different opinions welcome.
  • weapons
    weapons Posts: 367
    alfablue wrote:
    I compiled some notes about mods, repairs and use for the Gaggia Classic for anyone interested. Any additional tips or different opinions welcome.

    Thanks - that looks really useful, as it's the model I'll probably get!

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