Giro Stage 9 *Spoiler*

124

Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Well, if you put a corner like that into a big finish, chances are you get the result we had today: a bunch of 2nd, 3rd and no rate sprinters get to battle for the win.
    Harmon more or less called it in advance.

    This one they can't blame on Zomegnan.

    A dull stage for a dull day, too.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    it's a corner

    not a 3m wide trench full of barb wire
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    you race to the conditions and I have seen tricker sprint finishes in GT's
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Well, if you put a corner like that into a big finish, chances are you get the result we had today: a bunch of 2nd, 3rd and no rate sprinters get to battle for the win.
    Harmon more or less called it in advance.
    .

    well they were 1st rate today
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Part of riding in a bunch is anticipating what other people will do. When you get a corner like that then you dont know what others will do, what line, whether they will slow, etc. Ok, so things go wrong at other times too but a corner like that really makes it hard to know what others will do and when people are travelling close together increases the chance of a crash a lot.

    Part of the answer is to be ahead when the corner comes, or at least have your lead-out there - but i dont think the winner was close to the front when they went round.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Not much you can do if Pozza knobs it up for you.

    He's riding in Fluro. Obvs a nodda.
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited September 2015
    Love the Giro trophy!
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Does anyone else think that the HTC train would have negotiated it a bit better and have delivered Cav to the line?

    Looking at the corner, it's pretty wide but quite a sharp angle. Ideally, you need to approach it in single file, so want a very high speed train to follow (IMO)...
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    mididoctors wrote:
    I think goss brakes well hard and carries a bit of the blame
    My feeling too, from what I could see.

    Ventoso in his post-race interview criticised the route planners for having such a tight curve near the end, but I wouldn’t criticise the route planners much.
    I’m with LangerDan, mididoctors and cumulonimbus in their opinion about the bend.

    I think ‘professionals’ should be able to cope with tight curves, the same as they should with cobbles or steep descents, and whatever else one may encounter on a road. Most riders should have experienced sharp corners in bunches from criteriums or from amateur races in their formative years.

    There are reasons why such tight curves are sometimes unavoidable too – a stage has to finish in an area or at a square large enough to accommodate all the team, logistics and publicity facilities, and also attractive and accessible enough for the public to attend, and in many towns, in order to reach a relatively central main square, the town's road network inevitably means no long straights before a finish, and occasional tight curves.

    (There was a similar tight corner right near the end of the 2010 Tirreno-Adriatico stage 2 in Montecatini, Boonen winning, but everyone got around it without incident.)

    I even think the route planners actually deserve some praise for the last 10 km today, because its climbs and bends led to the attacks then - more or less the highlights of the whole stage!
    The climbs and bends also did us the favour of breaking up all the trains for once!
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Jez mon wrote:
    Does anyone else think that the HTC train would have negotiated it a bit better and have delivered Cav to the line?

    Looking at the corner, it's pretty wide but quite a sharp angle. Ideally, you need to approach it in single file, so want a very high speed train to follow (IMO)...

    I'm not sure. The final few KMs were a bit mad with lots of attacks going and coming back and it wasn't the type of fast pure sprinters stage which HTC used to boss so well. You can have the best lead out train in the world, but if a load of guys crash in front of you then you'll probably crash as well.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Jez mon wrote:
    Does anyone else think that the HTC train would have negotiated it a bit better and have delivered Cav to the line?

    Looking at the corner, it's pretty wide but quite a sharp angle. Ideally, you need to approach it in single file, so want a very high speed train to follow (IMO)...

    if the preceding 10k hadn't been as hard a strong lead team perhaps even sky could have strung everyone out into a line earlier before the corner.. but just to be the devils advocate of my own position the run in meant the result would come from a wide bunch of guys trying to get through that corner first because no team could control the race up and down those drags.

    If either goss or cav had made the corner the opinions on the corner being a race route mistake probably would have turned into a debate about how sprinters need to able to deal with this stuff.

    A bona fide example of a spurious route design would be passage de gois TdF 99
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    Does anyone else think that the HTC train would have negotiated it a bit better and have delivered Cav to the line?

    Looking at the corner, it's pretty wide but quite a sharp angle. Ideally, you need to approach it in single file, so want a very high speed train to follow (IMO)...

    I'm not sure. The final few KMs were a bit mad with lots of attacks going and coming back and it wasn't the type of fast pure sprinters stage which HTC used to boss so well. You can have the best lead out train in the world, but if a load of guys crash in front of you then you'll probably crash as well.

    Ah, the disadvantages of only getting to see the last 1 km on you tube due to having a dissertation due in on Wednesday!!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • cal_stewart
    cal_stewart Posts: 1,840
    ptp carnage
    eating parmos since 1981

    Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Aero 09
    Cervelo P5 EPS
    www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=13038799
  • cornoyemade
    cornoyemade Posts: 180
    :"""-( can't wait to see cav cry about this.
  • Simmotino
    Simmotino Posts: 295
    cornoyemade wrote:
    :"""-( can't wait to see cav cry about this.

    We need a *yawn* smiley :roll:
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    The first reports in Italian I’ve seen from those who watched detailed analytical repeats on Italian TV claim that:

    - Goss was at fault by going into the bend too wide and then, when he realised his mistake, breaking hard and turning harder into the curve, and thus into the path of those who were on his left behind him, causing them (Pozzato) to run into him
    - had he not made the mistake, Goss was in such a good position just before the bend, he would have likely won the stage
    . Ventoso was in about 15th position just before the crash and if it hadn’t happened he might have only finished about 10th, while Felline (who was 2nd) probably might have been as far back as 30th
    - the Giro organisers probably were persuaded to place the finish where it was by the Frosinone town officials in return for a good financial contribution to the Giro funds (plus a free 3-course dinner with 6 glasses of wine to each member of the Giro delegation)
    - because of the crash, not enough is being said about how Rodriguez had a valiant if unsuccessful go at trying tried to take over the race
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Jez mon wrote:
    Does anyone else think that the HTC train would have negotiated it a bit better and have delivered Cav to the line?

    Wasn't it Goss that went into the corner way too fast ? He would have been part of the HTC train ?
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    cougie wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    Does anyone else think that the HTC train would have negotiated it a bit better and have delivered Cav to the line?

    Wasn't it Goss that went into the corner way too fast ? He would have been part of the HTC train ?
    ...bringing down Renshaw and Cavendish
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    cornoyemade wrote:
    :"""-( can't wait to see cav cry about this.

    Calm down Bernie.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Cal_Stewart wrote:
    ptp carnage
    afx237vi wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    PTP carnage?

    Apocalypse.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    cornoyemade wrote:
    :"""-( can't wait to see cav cry about this.

    I'll say this in public so others get the message.

    Deliberate trolling, however amusing, won't be tolerated for long.

    We all appreciate that there are riders people hate from time to time. Just keep it constructive.
    _
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    cornoyemade wrote:
    :"""-( can't wait to see cav cry about this.

    I'll say this in public so others get the message.

    Deliberate trolling, however amusing, won't be tolerated for long.

    We all appreciate that there are riders people hate from time to time. Just keep it constructive.

    Rick, if you're a Mod now you must be able to see the IP that Connor is posting from? You should be easily able to compare that to the likely suspects to find out who the culprit is...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    [

    Rick, if you're a Mod now you must be able to see the IP that Connor is posting from? You should be easily able to compare that to the likely suspects to find out who the culprit is...

    It's not a question of duplicate accounts AFAIK. It's just having good behaviour.

    We all have opinions, some strong.

    It's about putting them in a way which keeps the place a nice place to give your opinion.
    _
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    Jez mon wrote:
    Ah, the disadvantages of only getting to see the last 1 km on you tube due to having a dissertation due in on Wednesday!!

    You need to learn to prioritise :lol:
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Can't believe that finish. What were the organisers thinking? I mean, "tricky" corner like that with about a kilometre to go and there is a tree blocking the overhead shot! Why didn't they cut it down? We would then know who's fault it was! Bah, rubbish...
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Anyone else like to see more finishes like this on 'sprinters' stages with a short, steep hill 4 or 5km out? I think it really helps take away the foregone conclusion as puncheur types can have a crack on the final climb leaving the sprinters teams unsure whether to chase them or keep a tempo that allows their men to hang on to the peloton. The distance to the finish from the top yesterday was just enough that many of the sprinters were just about getting near the front coming into the last km. It worked well on a couple of similar stages in last year's Tour. It was a shame there was a crash at the end as it would have been interesting to see who took the stage if that hadn't happened (probably Goss IMHO).
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross wrote:
    Anyone else like to see more finishes like this on 'sprinters' stages with a short, steep hill 4 or 5km out? .

    Yes.

    Stage 19 of the '09 Tour which Cav won into Aubenas was the only time I was super impressed.

    PROFIL.gif

    More stages like that for sure.
    _
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Anyone else like to see more finishes like this on 'sprinters' stages with a short, steep hill 4 or 5km out? .

    Yes.

    Stage 19 of the '09 Tour which Cav won into Aubenas was the only time I was super impressed.

    PROFIL.gif

    More stages like that for sure.

    They introduced a few non-standard opening week stages into the Tour last year, but looking at the route this year they seem to have gone back to more traditional sprinters stages. Even the stage around Leige is going to be a bit of a limp wristed visit to the Ardennes from what i've read.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    inkyfingers wrote:

    They introduced a few non-standard opening week stages into the Tour last year, but looking at the route this year they seem to have gone back to more traditional sprinters stages. Even the stage around Leige is going to be a bit of a limp wristed visit to the Ardennes from what i've read.

    The last time they did a proper Ardenne stage it got neutralised anyway.
    _
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:

    They introduced a few non-standard opening week stages into the Tour last year, but looking at the route this year they seem to have gone back to more traditional sprinters stages. Even the stage around Leige is going to be a bit of a limp wristed visit to the Ardennes from what i've read.

    The last time they did a proper Ardenne stage it got neutralised anyway.

    Sadly, I remember it well. My respect for Cancellara has never quite been the same after that day.

    I can just about understand the idea of not attacking when your rivals have crashed, but making them ride to the finish together like its London to Brighton and not allowing anybody to sprint was pathetic and disrespectful to the fans who'd waited in the rain.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)

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