On-One 456 - bikeradar build advice.

chainsucked

Hi all,

This will probably be quite a long post but please bear with me, I will do my best to highlight the key points so people can skim through the boring waffle .

Situation:

Having recently gotten back into bike riding I have realised that my current 10+ old Trek 4500 is really showing its limitations. When I got it, it did everything I needed to but after trying out more challenging terrain I'm really struggling. Both the front and rear of the bike are extremely easy to unsettle, I end up braking an awful lot down rooty sections because I have no confidence in the stability of the bike (I still end up falling off rather a lot ).

With this in mind I have made the big decision that I am going to build, with the help of my local bike shop my very own custom On-One 456. I'd like to use it as a learning exercise so the plan is to do as much of the build as I can but get the LBS to do the more fiddly bits. That way I'm hoping that I will really "get" how the bike runs, and how I can tweak it to be the bike that I want it to be. I want the bike to be great fun for DH action, but also capable of being a blast when doing XC and pootling down the river.


The Frame:

Originally I looked at a vast range of different frames ranging from XC to DH ones, I realised that what I really wanted was a frame with a lot of flexibility. XC frames like the Whippet look absolutely fantastic but the limitations on fork size would really stop me from progressing to tougher, more DH orientated runs. In the end I decided on a Carbon 456 after looking at all of the fantastic builds on bikeradar. I contacted the lovely guys at On-One to find that the particular frame size and finish I wanted wasn't in stock and probably wouldn't be for a couple of months. This gives me time to work on the spec (and more importantly get the funds together!).


Forks:

After reading through a great number of 456 threads here, it seems that the majority of people run their 456's with RockShox Revelations with some running the Fox equivalents. I have absolutely no bias towards any make or manufacturer however the one thing I do want on the fork is a built in axle such as RockShox's Maxle for rigidity. I have to be honest, the RockShox range confuses the hell out of me, with air, dual air, crown adjust, black box and everything in between. I know there are dual position forks and ones that can be changed in other magical ways, I really have no idea what technologies people rate, and what ones are just a marketing gimmick.

What I really want is a fork that is capable of climbing well but is also a blast going down, soaking up all of the pesky roots that have been unsettling me for so long. I realise that longer travel forks may make climbing harder, but I'm hoping it won't be too bad with a bike as light as this (I may have this entirely wrong). I'd also like the fork to be somewhat "pootle friendly", whether this is the ability to shorten travel or lock out the forks I don't know.


Drivetrain:

I have found that despite the choice of 24 gears on my 3x8 Trek, I never actually venture off the big ring. This, coupled with the trait of 456's to get chainsuck has inspired me to run a 1x9 or 1x10 setup. The simplicity of having no front mech is also quite appealing. Again, I have no preference as to whether to go SRAM or Shimano on this so I'm hoping that this will open up my choices a fair bit. I want something that will be hard wearing, particularly as I do have a habit of crashing more frequently than I'd like! At the same time, I realise that the components will wear down over time anyway, so I'm not sure if it's really worth getting the expensive stuff.

I'm finding drivetrains very confusing in terms of compatibility and what I really need. I looked at a Shimano Saint M810 with bash ring coupled with a Saint Derailleur and Shifters which seemed very nice if expensive. I'm not sure what the SRAM equivalent would be. I have also considered getting a nice bottom bracket from Hope or Chris King, I really want the components to last on this bike and having the ability to change out or upgrade the bearings easily appeals to me. Having said that, it appears that most cranksets include a bb anyway so perhaps this is somewhere I could save money?


Wheels/Brakes

I think the wheelset is about the only thing on this build that I have almost decided on. Currently, I'm looking at Mavic 719 rims, ACI S/S DB Spokes with Hope Pro Evo 2 hubs. At the front I believe I will need the hub to be a 15 or 20mm one to be compatible with the Maxle-type system I intend to have on my forks? As for the rear I presume that a regular 135mm QR one would be what I'm looking for (I find the options for the rear hubs really confusing...). I guess I will need to choose rim tape too, again something I have absolutely no idea about!

One of the things I'm most looking forward to is upgrading from v-brakes to lovely hydraulic disc ones. I have found that v-brakes, particularly in the wet really aren't much fun. Looking around at what is on offer I was surprised to see that a lot of brakes are sold separately and without rotors. I haven't decided which brand to choose so I'm sure I'd be happy with anything from Hope, Formula or Shimano. I have had a bad experience with Avid brakes so rightly or wrongly I'd like to stay away from those. I don't know what would be an appropriate rotor size but I think I was leaning towards 180mm front and rears as I believe that this will be more than enough.

I'd much prefer to be overbraked than underbraked! I'd be very interested to hear the different sizes and setups people use and how they find them, as someone who mainly uses the rear brake to prevent an over-the-bars incident I find it surprising that so many people have larger rotors on the fronts than the rears (my ignorance showing through here). The formula website seems to be quite a few bargains in their specials, would something like http://store.formula-brake.com/items/offerta-3 be a good deal?

I think that just about covers the important components, although it would be good to get opinions on bar and stem sizes for this bike. I have a very rough idea of 710mm riser bars with a 70mm stem but currently this is just guess work.

Apologies for such a horribly long post, all opinions are most welcome!

supersonic

The Carbon 456 is a great frame - I'd get one even if the colour was one you didn't like.

As for builds, you need to decide how hard that DH is going to be. If you are going to be hitting big drops and jumps, then I'd go for a burlier fork like the RS Lyrik - and wheels to match, such as Superstar Switch with Mavic 521 rims or Stans Flow.

You can buy full groupsets at great prices, though you will have to tweak the chainset to make it 1x10 (ie add bash and chain guard).

The rear takes a standard 135mm QR axle.

GBH14

This is really random...

I was looking at building a bike and was swaying towards the On-One 456 as the frame and wanted to know what to put with it.. this brought me to your thread, so i signed up! I've always rode bike, but always off the shelf bikes. I want to build my own to know how to maintain and work on my bike myself. My knowledge is pretty minimal at the moment so im looking for a bit of help too (sorry to hi-jack your thread!! haha)

Would be very interested to know what you go for.. I was looking at the Shimano saint m810 brake set-up, but dont really know about the drivetrain. How much would you be looking at roughly for the saint m810 groupset found here: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/n ... hed-15855/ I cant seem to find a price anywhere.

Forks are an uncertainty too. The frame will take a max of 160mm which is plenty for my use, but i have no idea what to go for. I, like yourself, will do a bit of DH and off road stuff, but will also use it for going to work and round the local reservoir.

I'll keep my eye on this thread, as seems like your going down the route i want to go

delcol

imo saint brakes would be slight overkill for the 456 for xc riding and commuting,.. they are a bighitting brake more for full on downhill/freeride

be better saving weight and money and looking xt or slx or if funds allow xtr..

EH_Rob

Saint stuff is DH specific - it'll be pretty heavy I would think, expensive, and not something you probably need. In my experience Shimano SLX is more than good enough for most riders. Have a look for deals on entire groupsets to save yourself some money.

In terms of fork I'd say you can't go wrong with Revs for a build like this, probably at 140mm. Unless you want a coil fork.

And if you use this bike to commute to work it's probably getting pinched very shortly after you finish building it, so I'd save some money for insurance and a lock, and keep your receipts. Better still, get a commuter bike!

leaflite

As has been said, dont bother with a saint groupset unless you are going with the lyric fork and other bits supersonic suggested- it is designed for downhill bikes and a bit overkill for general riding.

For an allrounder build I would suggest a shimano deore xt groupset (flog the front rings, shifter and mech+ fit ring of your choice and possibly a chainguide to go 1x10).

I would go for a fixed travel revelation as, having tried the dual position ones, I wasnt too impressed with the reliability or midstroke support compared to the standard ones.
Regarding dampers, the new rct3 seems to be the best according to most reviews, but all the dampers in the 2012 onwards revs are very good-just get what you find good deals on.
Tapered steerer is probably a good option seeing as it will fit the c456. Go for a crown lockout if possible as I have had loads of problems with my poploc.

For wheels, I would go for a superstar switch f/trizoid r hub combo on arch ex rims, or DT 240s/ American Classic/Tune hubs on arch ex or pacenti tl28 rims if you want to spend a bit more.

Beardface

TL;DR

The C456 is fantastic for everything really. A hard hitting, light carbon hardtail that can do pretty much whatever you want it to (within obvious reasons!). I had one... if I didn't miss full sus so much, I'd still have it.

If it's any help, this was my build thread

And heres a pic:


The thread will give you an idea of what I went for, it may be of use

ilovedirt

fork: i'm a rockshox man, they work well, they're reliable, easy to service and much cheaper than the equivalent fox fork, all this is from my experience though, I've never owned a fox fork. Though I have owned Rockshox toras (x2), lyriks, boxxers, pikes and totems, and they have all worked perfectly for me. Depending what you want to do, and how gnarly the riding will be, revelations will be fine for most riding, but lyriks are nice if you want to go bigger/gnarlier. coil/air is preference, coil is heavier but supposedly plusher, and usually cheaper. I've mostly stuck with coil forks. Stay away from two step air travel adjustment, it's unreliable. U-turn is good and reliable, but in all honesty, whenever i've had a fork with u-turn, i've always left it at full travel. My current lyriks have no travel adjust or lockout, but I don't have any issues climbing etc on them as they're well damped enough not to bob much under pedalling.

Drivetrain: I ran 1x9 on my 456 with a 36t ring up front, and it worked great, really suited the bike. Go 1x10 if you can, 10sp cassettes go up to 36t giving you an extra gear for climbing, which would have come in handy for me a few times. Though if you do a lot of natural riding with steep climbs - a granny ring can be very handy. As for chain guide, you can get a cheapo top only guide from superstar which worked alright, or their plasma full guide which works well. I have a gamut p30 guide on both my current bikes which works beautifully and is light. SRAM/shimano is a personal choice, however AFAIK, the only short cage mechs shimano do are saint, which are pricey, and short cage is handy on a 1x9/10 setup as it keeps shifting crisp and stops the chain clattering about and protects the mech from rocks/stumps etc. SRAM X7 is functional (same sort of level as SLX), but X9/X0 shifts much nicer and is built a lot better.
SLX cranks are really good (or any shimano crank really, i'd reccommend them, having gone from raceface to shimano, shimano are much easier to set up and the interface is sturdier/more reliable. You'll need to get the granny ring tabs ground off though if you're going for a 1x9/10 setup though so they don't foul the chain guide. They also come with a BB, and shimano ones are really good.

brakes: I've never liked the feel of hope brakes, but they look good. I've got a set of formula megas bought from the formula website, it was incredible deal, they're insanely powerful and have good modulation. Though they have developed slightly sticky pistons over the 9/10 months I've had them (easily sorted, i just can't be bothered), and they get through pads like nobody's business. The RX would probably be a more sensible brake for your bike. My slayer is pretty much specced like a mini downhill bike - hence the big brakes, big fork and 1x9 drivetrain.

As for rotors, i'm running 203 f+r on my AM type bike, a bit overkill, but I don't really mind. 180/180 sounds sensible. A lot of people run a bigger front rotor because of the way that the front wheel is the one that slows you down most effectively, as that's the one that all your weight is on under braking. Locking up the rear wheel under braking isn't helpful. You should try and do as much braking on the front as you can, aside from on steep sections etc obviously.

Hope that helped.

vala

i've just recently finished building my bike, not a 456 though.
Have you considered getting second hand parts?
My build is near enough all second hand bar handlebar, grips, tyres and pedals.
Could be a way of saving some cash? Just takes a bit more time in sourcing the right bits you want.

Good luck with the build!

chainsucked

First of all, apologies for the late reply, it was rather a busy weekend. Thank you so much everyone for your feedback, at this stage the spec is changing frequently and I was really beginning to get quite stuck and confused. As my posts tend to be quite lengthy I shall try to highlight all the parts in bold to make it easier to scan through .

It appears that everyone seems to unanimously praise the RockShox Revelation forks which is not surprise given all the great things I have read so far. With such a confusing range on offer it's really handy to know exactly what features to go for so thanks for showing me the way. Currently it appears that I'm looking for fixed travel RCT3 Relelations with a tapered steerer, crown lockout and 15mm Maxle.

I have now been put right with regards to the Shimano Saint line, as you have all said there is no way that my usage could justify having something so tough and costly on the bike. I like the idea of going for an SLX crankset (even if I do have to modify it by grinding off the tabs on the granny ring) and running it as 1x9 or 1x10. The short cage derailleur appeals to me so SRAM X9 10 speed seems very tempting. I am a little bit worried that the feedback on the X9 10 speed doesn't seem nearly as positive as the feedback for the 9 speed version, is this something I should be worried about?

I will keep my eyes peeled on the Formula website, in the hope that some RX's become available for some awesome stopping power. I'm sincerely hoping that 180mm rotors front and rear will be able to stop my daft self as and when required!

The alternative wheelsets sound intriguing, I presume I would be looking at the Trizoid Enduro or DH hubs, the Superlegerra seems to be more cross country orientated? Either way, I could make quite a saving by going with that rim/hub combo on Superstar. I will see if I can dig up comparisons of the between the Hope and Trizoid hubs.

I really love your bike builds ilovedirt and stav, the bikes on this website are an inspiration!

As for the point regarding buying second hand, this is something I have considered. There are some absolute bargains to be had on PinkBike, my only problem is that I'm not sure what items are the "safest" to purchase used. Drivechain parts for instance will be a bit worn and although you can get forks for staggering prices, there is no warranty there if everything all goes wrong!

ilovedirt

I've not used the 10sp X9 stuff, so I can't really comment, what sort of things do the reviews say? I did have the spring in my X9 9sp mech fail after a year or so, but I got it replaced under warranty.

The revelations sound like a winner to me, would love a pair myself (and another bike to put them on )

I have some avid elixir 5's now as well which are decent brakes, not as powerful or nicely made as the formulas though. Get the formulas if you can Megas could be a good call with some smaller rotors maybe, I see they have them in stock.

I also have a superstar switch wheelset on DH595 rims, the hubs are good and haven't let me down yet, though the rims are very heavy. I don't know what the XC/AM ones are like, but my hope/DT EX500 wheelset is a LOT lighter. If you're going to save weight, rotating weight is key, so wheels and tyres. If you can afford it, a good set of wheels is always a good investment. You could always get one of the superstar wheel builds on a nicer rim though of course, the actual build on my wheels is pretty solid. Don't forget to give them a tweak now and again though, a tight/true set of wheels is going to be stronger than one that doesn't get looked after.

Regarding second hand etc, I always like to buy new whenever possible. If you can afford to buy new, then do it!

Oh and thanks, I'm really enjoying my bikes now I've got them pretty much sorted

UncleMonty

The frame is an absolute bargain, I paid £300 and they even threw in a smoothie headset.

You don't have to layout a fortune, here's my budget build, everything was was swapped over from my old ride except the gear cables, I thought I'd treat myself to a new set.

mrmonkfinger

chainsucked wrote:

There are some absolute bargains to be had on PinkBike, my only problem is that I'm not sure what items are the "safest" to purchase used. Drivechain parts for instance will be a bit worn and although you can get forks for staggering prices, there is no warranty there if everything all goes wrong!

Forks, shocks & brakes might well need servicing, too. I've bought second hand and been lucky, but I've only bought shocks & forks that are listed as "recent servicing" or similar. 2nd hand drivetrain (cranks/cassette/chains) are best avoided unless you know they are really low mileage/use.

I guess the thing to think with second hand is "what could go wrong with this?" and "how likely is that?".

mrmonkfinger

chainsucked wrote:

I'm looking for fixed travel RCT3 Relelations with a tapered steerer, crown lockout and 15mm Maxle

good choice btw, excellent fork

felix.london

Only skimmed through this so apologies if this has been covered.

If you're going 1x9 or 1x10 - Shimano are releasing a new groupset this summer 'Zee' - this is an 'entry level' DH orientated groupset and more importantly for you there will be a Shimano short cage mech at a more reasonable price.

If your frame wont be in for a couple of months might be worth waiting. I'd agree about Saint brakes being overkill for this type of build. I'd go for XT brakes myself.

I'm setting out on a 1x9 build myself and going for a Truvativ Hussefelt crankset with a 34t ring

Wheels, I'd go for a Superstar build Switch EVO/Trizoid Enduro with Stan's Arch EX

Just my 2 penny's worth

rockmonkeysc

The zee groupset will be very over the top, similar to the old Hone groupset. It's going to be heavier than Saint. I use SLX / XT on my downhill bike & it's all solid. SLX cranks are bombproof & the SLX mech with XT shifter is a great combination. The main advantage of Saint brakes over SLX is that Saint are less prone to fade when they get hot, SLX will be fine for this use.
The Carbon 456 is not a downhill frame so there is no point building it with downhill components, the main advantage of the carbon 456 over the steel one is weight so why build it up with heavy components. I used to use my 456 Summer Season for downhill racing & other than the Rockshox Domain forks most of the components were SLX & Deore with Elixir CR brakes & I cracked the frame before anything else failed.

felix.london

Only suggested the Zee mech as if you want a short cage Shimano mech that and the Saint are your only two options (I think?)

But yeah - if it was me I'd be kitting it out with XT/SLX depending on budget

EdW

If your going 1x10 (or 9) from the outset you should consider a single ring specific crankset, I went for the Raceface Respond although I really like the look of the Atlas cranks. They also have chainline adjustment which I found useful.

Regarding rear mechs, I got the slightly shorter XT 770 GS version. Also, does anyone know if a short cage mech would be too short for an 11-36T cassette ?

rockmonkeysc

SLX with a Renthal chain ring is a pretty good set up. I find a medium cage SLX rear mech works really well with a 11-36t cassette.

leaflite

As long as they fit your frame, the superleggera hubs should be fine for most riding.

DodgeT

Have a looky here, finished my build a week or so ago http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12850277.
Mainly SLX kit, light enough and plenty strong enough for anyything i'll be doing. Revs and superstar wheels.
I went the new route for virtually everything (apart from mech n shifter but they were as new), mainly because I wanted to have a newly built, new bike.

Just need a proper ride on it now.

felix.london

Lookin nice over there DodgeT, very nice indeed 8)

DodgeT

felix.london wrote:

Lookin nice over there DodgeT, very nice indeed 8)

Cheers, and now I've had a couple of good rides on it, I can confirm it is a really capable bike. Glad I finally went through with building it, after pondering for months...