Flexible QR under braking

Giraffoto

So, I've got my new Shimano M596 brakes fitted and working, and they're brilliant. However, under hard braking the front wheel flexes (bit of movement in the dropout) to an alarming extent. I tightened up the QR skewer which helped a bit, but is there anything stronger than a regular 9mm QR (Specialized hub and Hope skewer) that I could use without changing the fork? Changing the hub may be an option, the fork isn't!
Which of the many axle fittings are compatible with a fork that will accept a regular 9mm Q/R?

nicklouse

it will be your fork flexing.

What fork?

Giraffoto

Rockshox Recon Gold. I don't think it's only the fork flexing - I see the disk moving relative to the fork leg, and tightening up the QR until it's not quite such a quick job to release it makes the situation better. It just doesn't seem right that the QR has to be so tight, but then I'm more used to road bikes . . .
Would any of the alternatives (a) fit (b) change anything much?

The Rookie

Get a Shimano skewer, the leverage ratio is twice that of conventional ones and gives higher clamping loads.

The skewer just clamps the forks to either side of the axle, it doesn't actually hold the wheel in place. Is the disc moving sideways, may be one piston is smoother acting than the other and pushing it over?

Simon

nicklouse

how did i miss the Hope Qr?

may also be poor spoke tension allowing the rim to move.

Giraffoto

nicklouse wrote:

how did i miss the Hope Qr?

Is a Hope skewer not a good choice then?

And leaving aside for a moment the question of skewer choice (while I Google "Shimano Skewer" with the other hand), Are any of the other compatible ways of fixing the wheel to the fork better than Q/R with the best possible skewer? Like the old-fashioned solid axle with a nut on each end, or the two hex bolts going into the axle?

The Rookie

Giraffoto wrote:

Is a Hope skewer not a good choice then?

Nope, like most hope stuff it's overpriced and not very good at it's job, looks nice though (or is THAT it's job?)

You can use bolt through skewers like Hex, but like I said earlier what EXACTLY is happening, the skewer only clamps the forks to the axle and acts in tension, it doesn't hold the wheel in per se.

mrmonkfinger

what sort of state are the wheel bearings in?

Giraffoto

The wheel bearings are fine, although I can see what you're thinking and it's something I'd checked. It is just a case that the (Hope) skewer needs to be cranked down really hard to stop the axle moving in the dropouts under braking. It's for this reason that I was thinking about solid axles or bolt-in ones: if I'm carrying a puncture outfit, I'll have the hex keys as well so Q/R isn't absolutely essential

The Rookie

Just use a Shimano skewer, the leverage ratio is doubled, so for the same effort you get twice the clamp force of an external QR mechanism like the Hope.

oodboo

The Beginner wrote:

Get a Shimano skewer

This

I had a similar problem on a commencal. Shimano skewer solved it straight away.

Greer_

The Beginner wrote:

Get a Shimano skewer

I have the same forks (recon gold) and I HAD the same problem. A new shimano QR sorted it

Chunkers1980

I know Shim QRs are the best, but how does it actually solve the problem.... all very odd to me.

nicklouse

Giraffoto wrote:

Rockshox Recon Gold. I don't think it's only the fork flexing - I see the disk moving relative to the fork leg, and tightening up the QR until it's not quite such a quick job to release it makes the situation better. It just doesn't seem right that the QR has to be so tight, but then I'm more used to road bikes . . .
Would any of the alternatives (a) fit (b) change anything much?

is the Qr lever leaving a good impression on your palm? the lever should be starting to put pressure on from about straight out.

YeehaaMcgee

Chunkers1980 wrote:

I know Shim QRs are the best, but how does it actually solve the problem.... all very odd to me.

It's been explained above...

Giraffoto wrote:

I see the disk moving relative to the fork leg, and tightening up the QR until it's not quite such a quick job to release it makes the situation better. It just doesn't seem right that the QR has to be so tight, but then I'm more used to road bikes . . .

The Beginner wrote:

Just use a Shimano skewer, the leverage ratio is doubled, so for the same effort you get twice the clamp force of an external QR mechanism like the Hope.

YeehaaMcgee

nicklouse wrote:

Giraffoto wrote:

Rockshox Recon Gold. I don't think it's only the fork flexing - I see the disk moving relative to the fork leg, and tightening up the QR until it's not quite such a quick job to release it makes the situation better. It just doesn't seem right that the QR has to be so tight, but then I'm more used to road bikes . . .
Would any of the alternatives (a) fit (b) change anything much?

is the Qr lever leaving a good impression on your palm? the lever should be starting to put pressure on from about straight out.

It's a Hope one though. When I had them, I had to use a plastic mallet to tap them closed tightly enough. Terrible design.

Giraffoto

Terrible design.

Shame that - they look nice, but at least I didn't eBay the old ones when I bought the shiny skewers. I'll put the (dull-looking) Specialized ones back in and see if that fixes things.

The Rookie

SHI-MA-NO....

It does sound like the gap between the fork legs is a little wider than your axle (missing a spacer?) as such you don't want to just do up the QR tight on the fork legs but tight enough to pull the legs in tight onto the shoulder features (depending on the exact hub) on the axle to lock it in place

sensi10

QR tension should not be over tight , and many people do overtighten qr. Cam tension on the qr should be their when the qr handle is inline with the axle ( halfway between open and closed ).
I have a new shape hope qr on the rear hub on my rockhopper and its fine.

YeehaaMcgee

sensi10 wrote:

I have a new shape hope qr on the rear hub on my rockhopper and its fine.

Plenty of people use Hope, and have no problems (or at least don't realise it's a problem). However, there are more people having issues with Hope and other open-cam designs than the (in all probability, zero) people having problems with Shimano ones.

sensi10

Well they say you learn something everyday lol , there is a sexy xtr one on crc I might have to invest a bit pricey though.

Chunkers1980

From the cheap steel ones to the XTR they all work the same, just up in bling and down in weight.

Giraffoto

Chunkers1980 wrote:

From the cheap steel ones to the XTR they all work the same, just up in bling and down in weight.

With that in mind, have a look at On-One/Planet X - they have Deore ones for £4.99 (Scroll down to the bottom of the linked page).

The Rookie

I have a pair of Deore and a pair of XT, the main parts look identical and while the XT lever looks lighter, they weigh the same.

Chunkers1980

There are so many versions. I'd be quite conceivable for 4 years previous XT to be packaged as Deore 4 years later. It's only recently they've started bling the levers to match the group's theme.

The Rookie

Very true

Giraffoto

Giraffoto originally wrote:

With that in mind, have a look at On-One/Planet X - they have Deore ones for £4.99 . . .

Well, I parted with two lots of £4.99 and had a pair of unexciting looking Shimano QR levers on my desk less than 24 hours later - good service, Planet X/On-one! I used the same technique as I've always used to tighten Q/R skewers, and what was immediately obvious is that the Shimano ones are easier to clamp down, which (maybe counterintuitively) means that they provide more mechanical advantage, so a similar force on the lever will produce a tighter clamping force. Anyway, the wheel now stays where I left it under hard braking, so we can put this down to liking shiny trinkets more than dull looking effective Q/R levers.

As for the Hope levers . . .
I really wanted to like them: they look nice, and I believe that buying locally is an investment in your own future. Sadly they don't seem to provide the same secure attachment as either the Shimano lever or the original Specialized one, and my very limited attempts to get them tight enough left a gouge in the black finish on the lever where it bears on the washer. eBay for them, I fear.
On the other hand, the hubs they make are brilliant (if a tad noisy at the back!) on my road bike, and I'm still saving up for a set to go on the Hardrock. They'll just be held on with Shimano skewers, that's all

mrmonkfinger

my very limited attempts to get them tight enough left a gouge in the black finish on the lever where it bears on the washer

I have a pair of hope skewers. Both cams/levers have been scarred for the same reason.


IMO - 15mm/20mm axles are the best answer for disk brake forks.