Why is a better MTB frame important?

The glove

As per the title really I've been considering a Cube LTD SL 29er which my LBS doesn't stock, however they do stock Giant. My LBS said that the Giant has a better frame than the Cube.

With a lot of focus given to componets I was hoping someone might be able to explain what this really meant and why it's an important consideration?

Cheers....

The Northern Monkey

Did you ask the LBS of their definition of 'better'?

TBH, they're just trying to flog you what they stock. Which is understandable.

There are differences in frames.. but mainly between cheapo and expensive ones.

Horton

First off, I'd ask him to tell you why it's better, simply than just tell you that it is. I would hazard a guess that his statement is based purely on the fact that the

Cube LTD SL 29er which my LBS doesn't stock

vs the fact that

they do stock Giant

As to why it's important, it's the single most expensive part of any bike and what everything hangs off - it's easy to replace a single component on a bike if you don't like it, it breaks, it doesn't quite work for you etc. Not so much the frame

The glove

Thanks Guys, That was my first thoughts..... I'm not technically minded, just enjoy riding but I did ask to explain and he gave an example that the bits you can't see such as bearing's would not be the same quality so I guess we are talking nuts and bolts?

estampida

Gary Fischer once said 80% of the feel of a bike is the material it is made from

the better could refer to the fact that giant revise the frame every 6 months to a year - therefore as the frame has had more revisions of design and is a more refined the bike

cube have some way to go before they have that length of time with their designs and design history behind them

new tech - new problems

I have an old kona full sus, I can service the bearings with a drift, a hammer and a g clamp - may not be that cutting edge but has a long term approach to deign, a service with funny sealed bearings in 3 years time might be the cost of a new frame

better is the frame, is how you apply the value of the goods vs the transaction

was it worth it?

Northwind

Frames are important, but "better" is difficult. Most bike frames these days are perfectly good, so it comes down to suitability and personal taste. Frinstance, I dislike stiff hardtails, some folks love them. Some folks like an agile, steep XC frame, I like a slacker more stable frame. But the downside of that is that nobody can tell you what's better.

kammybear

What's the Giant? They're usually worse specced than the Cubes due to brand power?

Go for the Cube...they look like the mutts nutts!

chez_m356

kammybear wrote:

What's the Giant? They're usually worse specced than the Cubes due to brand power?

did he really say that? in fact, giant? who are giant? they must be new, never heard of them

The glove

The Giant is a Talon so different price point, Not as well spec'd. Thanks guys, I get different materials and set up's suit different riders, plus the technoligy point. Seems I maybe being 'sold too' on the quality over a better spec cube just have to find a cube in stock and sit on it now!

diy

LBS will often say the frame is better as an answer to why the expensive bike has crappy components on and the cheap bike has quality kit on. I once listened to my LBS for about 40 mins while he went on about carbon weave, dollies and filler and why ribble's and boardman's were crap and specialized were worth the extra £800.

In reality some of the smaller brands have less buying power than the biggies, so are margin challenged. They will have to find other ways of convincing the consumer to buy their higher priced lower spec'd model.

Anonymous

Good point. When I had the GT which was when Halfords had the exclusive deal on them, cheap frame, good spec on components for the price. Actually a really nice bike. I looked at a bunch of big name bikes on offer in local shops and they had terrible spec components aiming for the same price. Though obviously the frame is more expensive for them.

Anyway, comparisons can only be made like for like. If they say it's better, is it exactly the same spec frame, i.e. geometry and materials at least?

There is some justification for more expensive frames compared to same spec cheaper ones, though yes a lot is brand name, but quality and durability counts if you are going to hit things big. In the main it's the full sus where it makes a difference though in the suspension design, pivot component design, ease of maintenance, durability of the wearable components, warranty offered on those components if any (may just get warranty on the frame, not the bits that wear down, some offer warranty on the lot, some even lifetime. i.e. it's the service you are getting with the frame).

Doesn't make a cheaper frame bad though. You may have compromises, higher maintenance, but could ride just as well and still last as long.

bails87

Horton wrote:

As to why it's important, it's the single most expensive part of any bike and

No it's not

Chunkers1980

Yeah, my ht is about 100 quid, my cranks are £130.... My fork is more like £300...

chazkayak

This is my experience, I bought a German brand Bkie "Bulls", for € 1800. It was an All Mtn 150mm travel with XT group set, Magura Louise Brakes, Mavic rims and RS Revelation forks........I thought a quality bike, untill the frame snapped just short of the two year warranty.

The LBS where I bough it from also sell Giant. I went back to the shop who took back my old bike and for €100 they gave me a Giant Reign 2.......chuffed to fcuk!!

The Giant almost the same price has STX goupset, avid brakes Fox 32 Float forks........but I get a lifetime warranty (40yrs) on the frame..Im gonna upgrade componants as and when I can afford.

Moral of the story........get a bike with a decent frame/Warranty/reputation!!!

paul20v

You need to sit on them both and have a go
ive had a giant xtc i also own an orange 5 (not a fan boy it just works for me ) and i own a cube
ive only just bought the cube and was torn between another giant and the cube (LBS stocks both)
Had a spin on both and bought the cube to be honest theres not much for me personally between them
it has to come down to how you feel with them
so if you can have a ride on them both and try some others too
you wont go far wrong with either of the mentioned thou 8)

supersonic

Gary Fischer once said 80% of the feel of a bike is the material it is made from

Mr Fisher is wrong (well in todays biking world). The feel is more to do with construction technique.

The glove

So today I drove 30 miles to the Bike shop which had the Cube LTD SL 29er in stock and I've got to say I like it to the point I nearly brought the bike there and then! Great spec, fast only 2 things stopped me,

1) the rear wheel is so close to the frame down tube I can't get my finger between them, not like this on other 29ers, should I be concerned?
2) The primary use of the bike is for a 22 mile round trip commute 2/3 days a week to replace my ageing hybrid, how much cop is a 29er for this?

:? Help!

supersonic

A 29er will be no better for a commute than any other wheelsize. What is important is that it fits and you are comfortable with it.

If your commute is mainly on the roads, why not get a road bike or another hybrid?

The glove

In short, I'm not into road bikes, have ridden but just not for me.

I could just get a hybrid but for the around the same cash you don't get the spec or potentially as much weekend fun!

Northwind

Yep, but even a cheap hybrid is tons better as a commuter than an expensive mountain bike. Not to mention that the commute will pile the wear and tear onto the mtb.

RevellRider

The glove wrote:

Thanks Guys, That was my first thoughts..... I'm not technically minded, just enjoy riding but I did ask to explain and he gave an example that the bits you can't see such as bearing's would not be the same quality so I guess we are talking nuts and bolts?

I'm surprised that none of you deal savvy mountain bikers have noticed the crap the Giant dealer was spinning here. Bearings being the difference in a hardtail frame. So that must be either the bottom bracket or the headset. Both easily upgradeable items

cloudynights

one good thing about giant frames is if it breaks and they do like any other make and your the first owner they replace them real fast and no waiting about having to send your old one back

Northwind

RevellRider wrote:

I'm surprised that none of you deal savvy mountain bikers have noticed the crap the Giant dealer was spinning here. Bearings being the difference in a hardtail frame. So that must be either the bottom bracket or the headset. Both easily upgradeable items

And wheels, which aren't - since he's not just buying a frame.