new to the sport, is this a good start?

dogsdanglies

as the title suggests, dont wanna spend a fortune in case I get fed up, but it looks good and I tried one at my local store, it's surprisingly light and I could upgrade parts if I need to
http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Bikes-and-Rideons/Bikes/Mens/Muddyfox-26-Digital-Bike(0083634)

snotty badger

No. I'm sure someone will be along to recommend a cheap hardtail soon though...

dogsdanglies

i thought muddy fox were a good make.....

steelie600

Dogsdanglies wrote:

as the title suggests, dont wanna spend a fortune in case I get fed up, but it looks good and I tried one at my local store, it's surprisingly light and I could upgrade parts if I need to
http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Bike ... ke(0083634)

snotty badger wrote:

No. I'm sure someone will be along to recommend a cheap hardtail soon though...

Do you know what, this bike snobbery is pissing me off abit. Ive only just joined this site myself and ive also been tarred with the no thats shit stick

Dogsdoodahs. From what ive worked out in my infinate trawling of the databases and reviews is Muddyfox are no longer what they once were. And as such the bikes sold by catalogues, halfrauds, and toys r uss etc are substandard and of a poorer quality than others.

HOWEVER there is no saying that it wont be ok for what you need. If your just getting back into MTB and will mainly be road riding, you may well find that it will be ok for a good while. BUT with it being a catalogue special so to speak I would expect components to wear quicker and maintenence to be needed on a more regular basis.

As a starter I see I could be fine but it could be shyte. See if you can have a proper prod and poke at one before you buy.

IF you wanted to be a bit more savvy with your money their are better quality hard tails out there but be prepared to pay @£300 for a semi decent beginner model. They will be better value for money as they will have better components and last longer. BUT its your money and you may be on a budget like me. SO i get where your coming from!!

Kev

bartimaeus

Weight: 16.5 Kg... that's 36.5 lbs, so heavy. The suspension will be undamped, so a pogo stick, and you get 18 speed gearing.

You are best looking at a hardtail bike for off road - a Rockrider from Decathlon, or a Carrera from Halfords, but even then you are looking at £300 or so for a bike that will help you out when the going gets rough.

... but if you are looking at roads, towpaths and easy trails, so riding for fun and fitness rather than thrills and excitement, then you could look at a rigid bike with v brakes (much lighter, cheaper, and easy to look after) - e.g. a Carrera Subway or similar.

Thewaylander

Bartimaeus wrote:

Weight: 16.5 Kg... that's 36.5 lbs, so heavy. The suspension will be undamped, so a pogo stick, and you get 18 speed gearing.

You are best looking at a hardtail bike for off road - a Rockrider from Decathlon, or a Carrera from Halfords, but even then you are looking at £300 or so for a bike that will help you out when the going gets rough.

... but if you are looking at roads, towpaths and easy trails, so riding for fun and fitness rather than thrills and excitement, then you could look at a rigid bike with v brakes (much lighter, cheaper, and easy to look after) - e.g. a Carrera Subway or similar.

What he says, with that muddy fox show it a few gods rocks and the wheels will become a mess, the sus is bumf there is no such thing as a good full susser for much below a grand, and this isn't snobbery its just the cost of a solid item.

These days £300 will get you a solid starting hardtail that wont fall to bits on your first few rides.

cooldad

It's not snobbery, otherwise everyone would be suggesting £4000 plus boutique bikes. It's simply rubbish.
It might do a trip to the shops, but it's not going to be any use for anything else. And probably not even that.
The frame will be heavy, no matter how light it felt in the shop, the suspension is basically a pair of pogo sticks - you are better off with no suspension than undamped springs, and the components will be flimsy and self destruct.

I am a 'responsible adult' (hah) with a high school MTB club and see plenty of kids sent off by well meaning parents on these things - they ride badly and take most of the pleasure out of riding - seriously I've seen kids almost in tears trying to keep up - stick them on some very basic, but competent bikes the school has and the difference is obvious.

If you are looking to just try things out, you'd be better off with a decent second hand bike. I got an old, but very usable Rockhopper for £34 delivered. Swapped some parts off for stuff in my stock, sold the bits off, and the net cash price was about £15. Rigid but works.

And BITD I had a Muddy Fox - excellent bike, way better than the Rockhopper which is similar vintage, but that's not a Muddy Fox anymore as the company was sold. It's just a generic POS.

cooldad

Must learn to type with more than one finger but you get the idea.

paulus69

I struggle to understand the whole bike snobbery thing, if your just starting out your never going to spend a lot of money in case you don't get into it. Even £200 - 300 would be a lot for a bike that may get used on the canal three times in a year.

In 12 months time you may want to upgrade to a bigger better bike, in which case I am sure spending more money makes more sense. At this point in time get a cheap bike and bear in mind that its the low end and it won't be forgiving/comfortable as a more expensive bike.

stubs

Go down the cyclepath theres usually at least one full suss Toys R Us bike been dumped in a hedge. Try your local bike shop they might have a part ex bike for buttons or know someone who has something tucked away in his shed.

cooldad

Or maybe the reason a lot of really cheap bikes get used a few times and then dumped in the shed forever is that they are just so bad to ride they put people off altogether.

stubs

cooldad wrote:

And BITD I had a Muddy Fox - excellent bike, way better than the Rockhopper which is similar vintage, but that's not a Muddy Fox anymore as the company was sold. It's just a generic POS.

I so wanted paw print wheel covers to go with my purple lycra and fingerless gloves

cooldad

Perhaps I shouldn't mention I still have purple (well purple and puke green) lycra, and fingerless gloves.

(Before my reputation is totally shattered I must point out I also have a modern full sus, real gloves and even some pairs of baggy shorts, so I iz totally down wid da kidz)

supersonic

This particular Muddy Fox is not a good bike - it is an awful bike. This is not snobbery, as I routinely offer budget advice, and recommend bikes cheaper than this. The problem with this bike is this:

- full suspension. The back end (and front for that matter) are totally undamped, so no energy will be dissipated, resulting in a very bouncy ride and little shock absorption.

- weight. 37lbs is ridiculously heavy for a bike that will not cope off road.

- gears. 18 speed gripshift is very narrow ranging, making lugging the weight around even worse.

- headset. Is a old style quill - unreliable, flexy, heavy.

- steel parts. As above.

- freewheel. The axle is weak and will bend.

I specialize in budget bikes, and even though this is half price, is not worth the money and will ruin your experience of MTBing if you take it over anything remotely rough. Is worth spending a little more, such as:

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/40274/GT- ... -2011.html

The fork isn't the best, but is smooth and doesn't top out with a bang. You get a top quality aluminium frame, great 8 speed (24) gearset with a wide range, sealed headset and bottom bracket, good wheels and quality alloy finishing kit.

stubs

cooldad wrote:

Perhaps I shouldn't mention I still have purple (well purple and puke green) lycra, and fingerless gloves.

(Before my reputation is totally shattered I must point out I also have a modern full sus, real gloves and even some pairs of baggy shorts, so I iz totally down wid da kidz)

Me too I am Home with the Downies.

steelie600

supersonic wrote:

This particular Muddy Fox is not a good bike - it is an awful bike. This is not snobbery, as I routinely offer budget advice, and recommend bikes cheaper than this. The problem with this bike is this:

- full suspension. The back end (and front for that matter) are totally undamped, so no energy will be dissipated, resulting in a very bouncy ride and little shock absorption.

- weight. 37lbs is ridiculously heavy for a bike that will not cope off road.

- gears. 18 speed gripshift is very narrow ranging, making lugging the weight around even worse.

- headset. Is a old style quill - unreliable, flexy, heavy.

- steel parts. As above.

- freewheel. The axle is weak and will bend.

I specialize in budget bikes, and even though this is half price, is not worth the money and will ruin your experience of MTBing if you take it over anything remotely rough. Is worth spending a little more, such as:

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/40274/GT- ... -2011.html

The fork isn't the best, but is smooth and doesn't top out with a bang. You get a top quality aluminium frame, great 8 speed (24) gearset with a wide range, sealed headset and bottom bracket, good wheels and quality alloy finishing kit.

THIS ^^^^^^^^ Is perfect advice and the kind we beginners need!!!

The usual No its guff buy this instead......... that frequents many threads on many forums, DOES NOT HELP AT ALL!!

Maybe my snipe at bike snobbery was a bit harsh, but the only people to offer me any SOUND and QUANTIFYABLE advice are Supersonic and another who's names slips my mind now.

Guys please when us noobs are after help, take a leaf outta sonics book and help and give an explanation as to why youve come to your conlusion!

Thanks!!

Kev

paulus69

supersonic wrote:

This particular Muddy Fox is not a good bike - it is an awful bike. This is not snobbery, as I routinely offer budget advice, and recommend bikes cheaper than this. The problem with this bike is this:

- full suspension. The back end (and front for that matter) are totally undamped, so no energy will be dissipated, resulting in a very bouncy ride and little shock absorption.

- weight. 37lbs is ridiculously heavy for a bike that will not cope off road.

- gears. 18 speed gripshift is very narrow ranging, making lugging the weight around even worse.

- headset. Is a old style quill - unreliable, flexy, heavy.

- steel parts. As above.

- freewheel. The axle is weak and will bend.

I specialize in budget bikes, and even though this is half price, is not worth the money and will ruin your experience of MTBing if you take it over anything remotely rough. Is worth spending a little more, such as:

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/40274/GT- ... -2011.html

The fork isn't the best, but is smooth and doesn't top out with a bang. You get a top quality aluminium frame, great 8 speed (24) gearset with a wide range, sealed headset and bottom bracket, good wheels and quality alloy finishing kit.

Fair point, the bike snobbery is the normal comment that you have to spend at least £300 on a bike, which for someone just getting into it is a large amount of money.

cooldad

steelie600 wrote:

THIS ^^^^^^^^ Is perfect advice and the kind we beginners need!!!

The usual No its guff buy this instead......... that frequents many threads on many forums, DOES NOT HELP AT ALL!!

Maybe my snipe at bike snobbery was a bit harsh, but the only people to offer me any SOUND and QUANTIFYABLE advice are Supersonic and another who's names slips my mind now.

Guys please when us noobs are after help, take a leaf outta sonics book and help and give an explanation as to why youve come to your conlusion!

Thanks!!

Kev

This is a forum, with many members and many opinions. Subject to one or two rules, anyone is entitled to express their own opinion in their own words.
SS and Nicklouse know their sh1t and do offer good advice, but it wouldn't be quite the same if it was just the SS/Nick show would it?

The Rookie

Very little snobbery on here, the aim is to make sure people buying a bike get to enjoy cycling as much as is reasonably possible, buying an aweful bike like that will put them off, there are lots of threads with good advice for people wanting to spend just £200-330 or around £500. No one wants someone coming to the sport to be priced out of trying it, on the other hand we don't want them to get ripped off by buying a 'mountain bike' that has no capability to be used for mountain biking, and doesn't even trundle on roads very well.

That particular bike can be found under dozens of brand names, including Dunlop and Universal.

Thewaylander

It's question of perspective, people think £300 on a bike is alot it's not.

And this is a mountain bike forum. You wouldn't go climbing with a bit old rope from down the road it might kill you same principle. Most of us don't look at super low end because as is stated its a bike forum and most people are life long riders.

SS does give good cheap end advise it's kinda what he does though so has the advantage. Its just like buying a car, if you spend 1k on one it's likely to have the wheels fall off in a year but it's still a lot of cash.

Twelly

Thewaylander wrote:

Its just like buying a car, if you spend 1k on one it's likely to have the wheels fall off in a year but it's still a lot of cash.

What he said ^

The clue is in the store name really - 'Toys r' us'. This bike is only going to be a toy, and not a very fun toy at that. Could possibly be dangerous if it was used for anything more than bumping up curbs and rolling on pavements.

ilovedirt

steelie600 wrote:

Dogsdanglies wrote:

as the title suggests, dont wanna spend a fortune in case I get fed up, but it looks good and I tried one at my local store, it's surprisingly light and I could upgrade parts if I need to
http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Toys-R-Us/Bike ... ke(0083634)

snotty badger wrote:

No. I'm sure someone will be along to recommend a cheap hardtail soon though...

Do you know what, this bike snobbery is pissing me off abit. Ive only just joined this site myself and ive also been tarred with the no thats shoot stick

Dogsdoodahs. From what ive worked out in my infinate trawling of the databases and reviews is Muddyfox are no longer what they once were. And as such the bikes sold by catalogues, halfrauds, and toys r uss etc are substandard and of a poorer quality than others.

HOWEVER there is no saying that it wont be ok for what you need. If your just getting back into MTB and will mainly be road riding, you may well find that it will be ok for a good while. BUT with it being a catalogue special so to speak I would expect components to wear quicker and maintenence to be needed on a more regular basis.

As a starter I see I could be fine but it could be shyte. See if you can have a proper prod and poke at one before you buy.

IF you wanted to be a bit more savvy with your money their are better quality hard tails out there but be prepared to pay @£300 for a semi decent beginner model. They will be better value for money as they will have better components and last longer. BUT its your money and you may be on a budget like me. SO i get where your coming from!!

Kev

Muddy fox hasn't been the brand it was for a good twenty years.... keep up mate.

And RE the bike snobbery thing - people replied saying it's a crap bike, that's what the OP asked. However at that price, you're better off buying used. You'd be surprised what you can pick up for a couple of hundred notes.

snowjho

I dontthink there is much brand snobbery. I was pointed in the direction of decathlon rockrider 9.1 rather than spesh camber. Lots of people have great knowledge of what is value for money. There are so many times when a rockrider 8.1 is reccommended over a more expensive bike.

The advice people give is on the assumption people want to go "mountain" biking not ride on a road or path. I used to own a halfords apollo bike and it was fine riding to the tennis club when i was eleven. I thought it was amazing, it had suspension and everything. It even got me down an alpe in les gets too. But it was crap but i was only eleven!

That bike will prob be fine if you dont ride it on a "trail". Try decathlon if there is one near you. They seem to offer great value across the board and the bike guys are really knowledgable and helpful. Just spend as much as you can on the most approproiate type. Dont get suspension if you dont need it.

snotty badger

steelie600 wrote:

snotty badger wrote:

No. I'm sure someone will be along to recommend a cheap hardtail soon though...

Do you know what, this bike snobbery is pissing me off abit. Ive only just joined this site myself and ive also been tarred with the no thats shoot stick


Kev

I wasn't being a brand snob! In fact I've never been called a brand snob and yes it was a bit harsh- I hate brand snobs!
I haven't looked at beginners bikes for a while but knew that bike would be no good for MTB. In fact it wouldn't be good for any cycling really, it just looks like a mountain bike.

There is some 2nd bargains out there, Carreras are usually good value too.

passout

Sorry but that bike is no good. You would be better buying something used off E-Bay where you 'might' get a good bike. I agree that a hardtail would be a much better idea in this price range. TBH you need to be spend 350 upwards (new) to get something that will not break off road. 2nd hand may be the way forward, you probably wouldn't lose much £ if you sold on later. If you buy new you will loose money (which is OK if you like it & use it). Another option is hire a bike at a trail centre, and see if you enjoy mountain biking!

chez_m356

passout wrote:

TBH you need to be spend 350 upwards (new) to get something that will not break off road.

no you don't http://www.decathlon.co.uk/bikes-cycling-sports.html

dogsdanglies

after all the response from this I've come to the conclusion that I need to spend a bit of cash to get a half decent bike so I opted for this on finance from winstanleys should be here by next week
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/47565/Saracen_Myst_Pro_2012_Bike
been watching some downhill videos on you tube and think I'll give it a try
just need a hat and some gloves, what else would I need, maybe some sort of body armour ?

cooldad

Are you serious?

mountaingoatimnot

With regard to the OP, and the advice given to date I'd too stay clear of anything from Argos/Toys r us and the like. The likes of MuddyFox sold out their brand name, much as other companies in differing industries have done and the products are not on the same playing field as their previous well earned reputation products. Discounted prices in these stores are often almost a permanent feature, and the RRP of £260 is probably only applicable for 30 days a year in a specific store or outlet; long enough to qualify as a legal reference point for a discount to be advertised

As already stated it does depend on what you want - if you want to use a tarmac'd cycle path on a sunny Sunday morning for a few miles with a young child in tow then it'll probably do the job for a year if not longer. Rutted canal tow paths will probably cause issues and an early (bike) grave.

Before i decided to do anything beyond casual local road cycling I dropped on an Apollo (Halfords) girls MTB at a car boot sale - got it for £15, took it home, cleaned it and gave it my 10 year old. No its not great spec, alloy wheels, basic 'Shimano' gripshift 18 speed gears and as basic a front fork as they come. But, he's riden it casually as young boys do in the local neighbourhood for almost a year and completed a few local green MTB trails. The bike hasn't fallen apart, nothing's broken and whilst the next hard impact may well write off a wheel or other component its proven adequate; currently he's no aspirations for anything beyond a green trails and a leisurely one at that (no hurtling down trails) and the bike is checked thoroughly before and after any outing off road. It will be upgraded to something much more capable in time, but until he has a view on whether he wants to do more MTBing then I'm loathed to throw a few hundred quid on what might be an ornament, and then get a BMX (ugh !) bike for him.

I'm not for one minute suggesting buying a cheap bike at a car boot sale, as only the specific individual knows the use they will give a bike, but just to assess options against usage.

Thewaylander

dogsdanglies wrote:

after all the response from this I've come to the conclusion that I need to spend a bit of cash to get a half decent bike so I opted for this on finance from winstanleys should be here by next week
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/47565/Saracen_Myst_Pro_2012_Bike
been watching some downhill videos on you tube and think I'll give it a try
just need a hat and some gloves, what else would I need, maybe some sort of body armour ?

Bad ass... this is the equivelant of hitting hte deep end, or taking the pee out of us for fun lol.

but if you have got it then you would be wise to have.

Full face helmet.
Gloves,
Goggles,
Knee pads,

As minimum

Then if you can spend some extra. Body armour is a great idea.

EH_Rob

If you've actually bought that then you are my hero.