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Playoffs unfair?

pinnopinno Posts: 47,747
edited May 2012 in The bottom bracket
West Ham, 3rd in the championship, are 10 points ahead of 4th placed Birmingham.

Its possible that they could loose the playoff and not get promoted.

Not a Hammers fan but I don't think this playoff system is at all fair.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!

Posts

  • rodgers73rodgers73 Posts: 2,626
    It's a knockout competition to reward the last spot for promotion. The top two should (ideally) be deserving of the honour. If you're scrapping over the last place you (ideally) shouldn't be that good to have much a leg to stand on when it comes to moaning about it all. And if the 6th place team is good enough to win through they probably deserve it.
  • GiantMikeGiantMike Posts: 3,139
    The league table is a season-long competition. Promotion should be based on points at the end of the season (or the collective IQs of the players).
  • verylonglegsverylonglegs Posts: 3,753
    rodgers73 wrote:
    It's a knockout competition to reward the last spot for promotion. The top two should (ideally) be deserving of the honour. If you're scrapping over the last place you (ideally) shouldn't be that good to have much a leg to stand on when it comes to moaning about it all. And if the 6th place team is good enough to win through they probably deserve it.

    The league table tells no lies. If you can't tell who is the better team after 46 games then why bother with it in first place? Lets have a knockout comp from December and scrap the rest of the games eh. Your need to include the word ideally draws attentions to its flaws.
  • wiffachipwiffachip Posts: 861
    1990 worst play off ever, us finishing third and getting beat off the mackems who finished sixth. they then lost the final and still got promoted

    definitely unfair
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    They could easily just promote the top 3, obviously. It's just a money making exercise, but having said that it's the stupid rules but we're going up anyway. COYI's
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • mr_pollmr_poll Posts: 1,547
    You know what your getting before the start of the season - so no complaints when you end up in third to sixth place.

    Also one pundit pointed out that without the play off's the season would of been over about 6 weeks ago, the play off's have kept things going right till the end.
  • wiffachipwiffachip Posts: 861
    edited May 2012
    Aggieboy wrote:
    They could easily just promote the top 3, obviously. It's just a money making exercise, but having said that it's the stupid rules but we're going up anyway. COYI's

    hope you do, 6 easy points

    he's only a poor little hammer
    his clothes are all tattered and torn
    etc
  • wiffachipwiffachip Posts: 861
    mr_poll wrote:
    You know what your getting before the start of the season - so no complaints when you end up in third to sixth place.

    Also one pundit pointed out that without the play off's the season would have been over about 6 weeks ago, the play off's have kept things going right till the end.

    just because you know about them doesn't make them right or prevent you from complaining

    your second point absolutely hits the nail on the head though
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    wiffachip wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    They could easily just promote the top 3, obviously. It's just a money making exercise, but having said that it's the stupid rules but we're going up anyway. COYI's

    hope you do, 6 easy points

    Don't bank on it. There has been plenty of teams over the years who rued the day they thought that, especially at crucial times.

    playoffstee_264_264_120427045759.jpg
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • wiffachipwiffachip Posts: 861
    Aggieboy wrote:
    wiffachip wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    They could easily just promote the top 3, obviously. It's just a money making exercise, but having said that it's the stupid rules but we're going up anyway. COYI's

    hope you do, 6 easy points

    Don't bank on it. There has been plenty of teams over the years who rued the day they thought that, especially at crucial times.

    playoffstee_264_264_120427045759.jpg

    the only thing I bank on is that we will never win a trophy, not been let down yet
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    wiffachip wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    wiffachip wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    They could easily just promote the top 3, obviously. It's just a money making exercise, but having said that it's the stupid rules but we're going up anyway. COYI's

    hope you do, 6 easy points

    Don't bank on it. There has been plenty of teams over the years who rued the day they thought that, especially at crucial times.

    playoffstee_264_264_120427045759.jpg

    the only thing I bank on is that we will never win a trophy, not been let down yet

    Be thankful for your league position :wink:
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,751
    Pah, if you think the play-offs are unfair you should see the WRUs latest scam in Welsh rugby. They decided the failure of the regions was down to not enough young talent being brought through the semi-pro premier league. To rectify this they decided last year to cut the premier league from 14 teams to 10. To decide the lucky 10 teams they brought in various criteria that clubs needed to meet. If more than 10 clubs met this then they decided to introduce a system of meritocracy based on league position at the end of last season and the previous 5! Suddenly end of season matches where teams may have given some fringe players a chance to prove themselves were deciding teams future in the league (a league that would no longer have promotion and relegation). To make matters worse 2 teams kicked up a fuss and were allowed into a 12 team league. One of these teams hadn't even met the criteria by the deadline. It also emerged that the criteria had never been properly assessed and clubs were claiming facilities that had never had planning consent. My club, Pontypool one of the oldest and most famous in Wales, are one of the two being relegated despite finishing above one of the saved teams and level with another this season. Unsurprisingly it has ended up in the High Court (today I think). So to me giving a team that finished third a chance to play-off for promotion in a system that has been established for 20 years seems perfectly fair!!
  • shouldbeinbedshouldbeinbed Posts: 2,660
    They've been around for years and are all about making money but home advantage 2nd leg & an even day trip to Wembley isn't enough of a reward for a season of effort.
    They could be biased more to the higher team either by using a ladder system on consecutive days so 6v5, winner v4 etc giving the higher team home advantage & fresher legs. Or as is but with a handicap, every win/3 points etc more than your opponent counts as a goal scored.
  • humpyghumpyg Posts: 50
    wiffachip wrote:
    1990 worst play off ever, us finishing third and getting beat off the mackems who finished sixth. they then lost the final and still got promoted

    definitely unfair
    I remember that game well, was at wembley as a kid. Disappointing we (Sunderland) lost to Swindon in the final, but it was great we got promoted anyway. The right decision. Don't feel cheated ;)

    I like the play-offs but not a fan of the penalty shoot-outs. A guy at work was saying years ago, if it was a draw after 2 games, they'd have a third game. Think I'm too young to remember that :lol:

    I'm presuming it's only some fans of the team that finishes 3rd in the league who think the play-offs may be unfair, and those finishing in the next three places don't. It's not unfair, they know how it is at the start of the season, they just need to win more games if they want automatic promotion. It adds excitement to the end of season, and allows plenty of clubs to fight it out to get in the play-off positions.
  • verylonglegsverylonglegs Posts: 3,753
    Pross wrote:
    Pah, if you think the play-offs are unfair you should see the WRUs latest scam in Welsh rugby. They decided the failure of the regions was down to not enough young talent being brought through the semi-pro premier league. To rectify this they decided last year to cut the premier league from 14 teams to 10. To decide the lucky 10 teams they brought in various criteria that clubs needed to meet. If more than 10 clubs met this then they decided to introduce a system of meritocracy based on league position at the end of last season and the previous 5! Suddenly end of season matches where teams may have given some fringe players a chance to prove themselves were deciding teams future in the league (a league that would no longer have promotion and relegation). To make matters worse 2 teams kicked up a fuss and were allowed into a 12 team league. One of these teams hadn't even met the criteria by the deadline. It also emerged that the criteria had never been properly assessed and clubs were claiming facilities that had never had planning consent. My club, Pontypool one of the oldest and most famous in Wales, are one of the two being relegated despite finishing above one of the saved teams and level with another this season. Unsurprisingly it has ended up in the High Court (today I think). So to me giving a team that finished third a chance to play-off for promotion in a system that has been established for 20 years seems perfectly fair!!

    Your mention of rugby reminds me the Aviva premiership winner is decided by play-offs. I'm not a fan of that either. Wonder how many football fans would be happy to call Newcastle, Tottenham or Arsenal EPL 'winners' if football had a similar set-up for this season. Not many I should imagine.
  • geoffgomezgeoffgomez Posts: 34
    Definitely not a fan of playoffs (my team's Southampton so very relieved to have squeaked through). If they must have them though I think they should get rid of the two legs format and the teams in 3rd and 4th should play at home against 6th and 5th respectively. Doesn't change the final but it does reward finishing 3rd a bit better.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 47,747
    mr_poll wrote:
    Also one pundit pointed out that without the play off's the season would have been over about 6 weeks ago, the play off's have kept things going right till the end.

    46 fixtures plus FA cup and league cup games not enough?!

    How about a 2 week gap at christmas and give the players a rest. If the playoffs boil down to injuries because of too many fixtures, then luck plays a significant role as the team with the most uninjured key players are gong to get through theoretically.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • wiffachipwiffachip Posts: 861
    mr_poll wrote:
    Also one pundit pointed out that without the play off's the season would have been over about 6 weeks ago, the play off's have kept things going right till the end.

    46 fixtures plus FA cup and league cup games not enough?!

    How about a 2 week gap at christmas and give the players a rest. If the playoffs boil down to injuries because of too many fixtures, then luck plays a significant role as the team with the most uninjured key players are gong to get through theoretically.

    it's not about 46 fixtures being enough, it's about a lot of those 46 games having some meaning to the mid table teams, who could sneak into the playoffs, but have no chance of an automatic spot
  • CumulonimbusCumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Feel a bit sorry for Wrexham in the Conference. Finished on 98 points and way clear of 3rd place but because Fleetwood won the league with 102 points, Wrexham have to go into the play-offs. First match was lost 2-0 so it looks like they will probably be out.

    Hereford had the same problem back in 2003-4. They missed promotion by a single point and scored over 100 goals yet it was Shrewsbury who went up, having finished in third 17 points behind.

    http://www.nonleaguefooty.co.uk/archive ... nce04.html

    One other thing against play-offs is that it means the team who goes up via the play-offs has less time to organise themself for the new season as for several weeks they wont know which league they will be in, which players are likely to stay etc.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,674
    GiantMike wrote:
    The league table is a season-long competition. Promotion should be based on points at the end of the season (or the collective IQs of the players, whichever is greater).
    FTFY

    Probably a close run thing.
  • One of the best games I've ever seen was Charlton vs Sunderland in the 1997-98 First Division play-off final: 4 all after extra time and Charlton won 7-6 on penalties. Being the only Charlton fan in a pub full of Sunderland supporters meant that I didn't shout to loud though.

    This year I don't really care about the play-offs because Charlton have got 101 points and won League Division 1.
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    One of the best games I've ever seen was Charlton vs Sunderland in the 1997-98 First Division play-off final: 4 all after extra time and Charlton won 7-6 on penalties. Being the only Charlton fan in a pub full of Sunderland supporters meant that I didn't shout to loud though.

    This year I don't really care about the play-offs
    because Charlton have got 101 points and won League Division 1.

    You won't have to care about them next year either then :lol::lol:
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • Aggieboy wrote:
    You won't have to care about them next year either then :lol::lol:

    You're probably right, but only time will tell.
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