How to be hated by cyclists

y33stu

Not sure if anyone has been following the Addison Lee meltdown after the owner blamed cyclists for their deaths on the road. But that guy has nothing on the Mayor of Toronto, who says, and I quote

"My heart bleeds for them when I hear someone gets killed, but it's their own fault at the end of the day." About cyclists.

I don't think he'd still be the mayor if he was in power over here. Shocking. I wont be visiting Toronto again any time soon!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17914504

jrduquemin

The mayor of Toronto sounds like a complete douchebag saying remarks like that...

Pross

roads are built for buses, cars, and trucks, not for people on bikes.

Therein lies the problem, not just in Toronto but in many places including the UK - people actually believe that is the case. It's a favourite rant of a colleague of mine who is promoting shared space. He argues that you get what you build for so if you build for cars that's what you get - make an area look like it isn't intended just for motor vehicles and you will get more people out of motor vehicles and onto bikes / on foot. This particular idiot seems to want it both ways though, get them off the road but also remove cycle lane :roll:

By the way, what has been happening on the Addison Lee thing? Have they started to lose business?

y33stu

Exactly. Although he seems completely anti-cycling to me. To be fair, its a typical north american view point. The car is god over there, but he's totally wrong in his approach.

The Addison Lee thing is still going, http://road.cc/content/news/57616-addis ... s-training .

Last I heard they had lost a whole bunch of contracts, including the one with the government, which must have cost them a few quid.

joshr96

Its simple, make more cycle paths..

murraymint77

Josh Harfoot wrote:

Its simple, make more cycle paths..

The last thing we should be doing is pushing us of the roads.
Better education for drivers and proper penaultys for bad driving would be better.

nevman

We have cycle lanes up here-a white line about 3 foot from the kerb and woebetide if you stray near the edge as that is enough excuse to hit you with a wing mirror or worse.
What we need is separation from the traffic by a concrete kerb-wouldnt cost much, but would protect us from the passing tin warriors.

manglier

I say, get rid of all the cycle lanes. The road is for all of us to use, we should be striving for integration not separation. A better use of the money spent on cycle lanes would be to screen TV slots on road behaviour. Short, pithy films to air during ad breaks and between programmes. Anyone remember Reginald Molehusband? The safest parker in town.

Bobbinogs

Manglier wrote:

I say, get rid of all the cycle lanes. The road is for all of us to use

Wot he said.

Wheelspinner

Bobbinogs wrote:

Manglier wrote:

I say, get rid of all the cycle lanes. The road is for all of us to use

Wot he said.

Another vote for this. While I think the cycle lanes are somewhat useful at highlighting to motorists that there is a slice of the road they should try and stay out of, the inconsistency of their design and placement makes them more confusing than useful, for both motorist and cyclist. IMO, the cycle lanes create more problems than they solve.

murraymint77 wrote:

Better education for drivers and proper penaltys for bad driving would be better.

No argument with this, but make RIDERS more accountable for their behaviour as well as drivers. TBH, I see just as much cr@p riding, if not more, as bad driving around town. In percentage terms, the number of riders breaking all kinds of road rules is far greater than the percentage of car drivers that do. There's no excuse for either.

Pross

Bobbinogs wrote:

Manglier wrote:

I say, get rid of all the cycle lanes. The road is for all of us to use

Wot he said.

Yep, and make the roads appear less like they are intended just for motor vehicles. Segregation just reinforces the belief that only motor vehicles should be using the road. One of the biggest problems we've had on the highway network was the misinterpretation of 'Traffic in Towns' back in the 60s with policy makers decided it was recommending segregation of pedestrians from traffic. The result was increases in traffic speed as they took ownership of the road space.

Saw a cracking cycle 'bypass' lane at a traffic calming build-out this morning - the cycle lane went between the build-out and the kerb but had a hedge growing in it but you can guarantee some motorists would expect a cyclist to still use it!

bompington

I love the dutch cycle paths, and they are fantastic for getting around towns, cities and villages quickly and safely. It would be nice to have that kind of infrastructure in the UK (or Canada or anywhere else) but I just can't imagine it ever happening here - in which case I agree with the posters above, that incomplete, confusing, unsafe cycle lanes/paths are totally counterproductive, and integration is the way to go.
Most of my cycling is on country roads, I have a couple of miles of cycle lanes on the last stretch of my commute into Perth though - and I am pretty sure that they never speed up my journey at all. Oh, and I've only ever been knocked off my bike twice - both in said bicycle lanes.

flipp

motorist should be educated in respect for other road users and perhaps have all their little toys and gadgets/distractions taken away.Hate to say it but a lot of european countries seem to have more awareness that there are cyclists or other people on the road.

Mike Healey

RE Addison Lee:

There is more joy in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth:
http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as ... ist-aware/

Flasheart

And this
http://www.carbuzz.co.uk/blog/Drivers-more-cyclist-aware

A mutual friend or mine & Bunneh (if he still posts here), Jim is a driving instructor
Being pro-cyclist he teaches his students to be cyclist aware while they are learning to drive

nweststeyn

bompington wrote:

Most of my cycling is on country roads, I have a couple of miles of cycle lanes on the last stretch of my commute into Perth though - and I am pretty sure that they never speed up my journey at all. Oh, and I've only ever been knocked off my bike twice - both in said bicycle lanes.

Are these the ones between Scone and Perth? I hate those cycle lanes... they are just about wide enough but they encourage drivers to not give you the space they normally would do if there were no lines.

I'm just back from 3 weeks in Perth, Australia. 300KM of DEDICATED cycle paths and a healthy living culture that means a huge percentage of the population cycle. Really opened my eyes!

Outwith the city, the roads are wide with plenty of space for cars to pass safely. I would not want dedicated cycle lanes in the country here in Scotland - but I rarely have issues with drivers up here, in the country or the cities (Dundee & Perth of course are TINY compared to London/Brum/Manc etc.)

priory

I cycled last week in spain (Javea/ Denia /Pedreguer areas)) and as usual there I took a while to get used to the care which almost all drivers showed when passing me . It was normal for a car to wait behind me for ages rather than pass closely. Sometimes when I was rounding a bend and I could see there was definitley no problem i would wave them on and many still would not budge until they had a view( which is quite right).

They are developing cycle lanes and paths in the tourist areas. These have all the faults of our own grotesque system from what I saw. Poor signing, loss of priority at all junctions and entrances, weird surfacing, conflicts with pedestrians on pavements, etc..

I noted only three particularly close passes; all appeared to be retired brits. It's a mental thing. Mind you, drink- driving is still regarded as ok among many of the ex-pats, not sure about the locals.

bompington

nweststeyn wrote:

bompington wrote:

Most of my cycling is on country roads, I have a couple of miles of cycle lanes on the last stretch of my commute into Perth though - and I am pretty sure that they never speed up my journey at all. Oh, and I've only ever been knocked off my bike twice - both in said bicycle lanes.

Are these the ones between Scone and Perth? I hate those cycle lanes... they are just about wide enough but they encourage drivers to not give you the space they normally would do if there were no lines.

I'm just back from 3 weeks in Perth, Australia. 300KM of DEDICATED cycle paths and a healthy living culture that means a huge percentage of the population cycle. Really opened my eyes!

Outwith the city, the roads are wide with plenty of space for cars to pass safely. I would not want dedicated cycle lanes in the country here in Scotland - but I rarely have issues with drivers up here, in the country or the cities (Dundee & Perth of course are TINY compared to London/Brum/Manc etc.)

Yep, that's the ones. Once knocked off a hundred yards or so before the Bridgend lights heading towards Scone, driver tries to duck round the right turn queue by pulling into the cycle lane just as I pile along it at 25mph: badly broken clavicle, scapula, ribs. Once WVM pulled in front of me as I came down the bus lane (I suppose that's not technically a bike lane accident then, but I would say the principle is the same) at the cross roads just before the Scone / Blairgowrie roads join. No injuries that time, saw him coming and almost managed to stop - would have gone behind him if he hadn't seen me too late and decided to slam the brakes on :roll: .
As for the other Perth, I suspect the healthy living culture is more important than the bike lanes. I would worry about the Aussie competitive attitude though - 50,000 Aussie commuters all trying to scalp the guy in front might get ugly :-)