Sportive rip offs 750 x £27 = £20250

NITR8s

This organisers are making a fotune out of these events, if you do the maths an average sportive with 750 entrys at £27 per person gets a total of £20250. Now dont call me cynical but to put up some arrow markers, get permission from local authority etc arrange start, feeds and finnish. Get some companies to sponser the event and hay presto all water/food and finnisher gifts paid for anyway.

I think someone should start a petition to lower the cost of a sportive entry as they are far too overpriced.

giropaul

I may be wrong, but I don't even think any permissions are required, from Police or Local Authority.

In fact, that's one of the potential issues. Recently an official Road Race was cancelled by the Police as a sprtive had been arranged using the same roads (after the Road Race was notified. The Police were apologetic, but as they said, they have no power (currently) to stop a sportive, but they have got powers to withdraw a permit for a Road Race.

I guess the OPs point is supported by the number of previously unknown (in cycling anyway) organisations that emerge to run sportives.

butcher_boy

Or you could organise your own, charging far less and see how you get on.

marksteven

did lille to calaise a couple of years ago , 10 euros ! on the day that got u , fully marked route 4 or 5 feed stations a gift & t shirt & huge cheese roll at the fnish. 10 euros .As usual we rip each other off in this country

majormantra

Don't like it? Don't do them. Works for me.

I would guess there are some insurance costs as well but I've no idea how much they would be.

jibberjim

MajorMantra wrote:

I would guess there are some insurance costs as well but I've no idea how much they would be.

60 pounds per 100 riders if you do it under BC - however most sportives don't suggesting it is cheaper elsewhere.

NITR8s

Make my own sportive, theirs an idea. £15 entry, 100k or 100mile. Held in somerset/devon. Includes timing chip, feed station/waterstop and finnisher goody bag. Contact LBS/companies arrange a sponser, contact sports nutrition company for sponser.

All i need now is a catchy name and a route.

NITR8s

jibberjim wrote:

MajorMantra wrote:

I would guess there are some insurance costs as well but I've no idea how much they would be.

60 pounds per 100 riders if you do it under BC - however most sportives don't suggesting it is cheaper elsewhere.

1000 riders max so max of £600 insurance from BC. And can print BC on advertisting to show how great it is, speak to bikerader and see if can get some sort of partnership deal.

NITR8s

Speak to St Johns/red cross and get first aiders, LBS to see if will offer a free mechanic serivce.

Bobbinogs

To be honest, I am fairly sanguine about the whole sportive charges thing. I know there are a lot of costs, many of which are hidden like time and effort. If you compare the cost of a sportive to an audax then it is an unfair comparison because many sportive organisers are professionals so quite rightly expect to be recompensed for all their effort whereas an audax organiser won't even count up all the hours they spend reccing the route, writing routecards, phoning around to get facilities, etc., etc.

I do the odd sportive but am highly selective about what I do and how much I pay. £65 for the Welsh Etape thing? Nah, not for me. £10 for the Epic Spring Challenge which doesn't offer a feed station but chucks all profits to charity or £12 for the Mad March Hare with an excellent feedstation...yepp, count me in. Polcini ones...look great but a bit of the way off for me.

Vote with your feet (or pedals). Plenty of other options like cub rides, reliability rides, audaxes or even just looking at the sportive routes and doing them yourself. Sometimes it is hard to fit it all in

oneof1982

I guess this is like any business, you chose whether or not you want to buy the product, and, as you can also choose to enter the market as a supplier there is now clearly lots of choice. When I did my first sportive about 5 years ago, me and a mate talked about how easy it would be to start something up like the various companies offering sportives now. Wish I did, but then I wish I had invented "Facebook"!. Good luck to various offerings, and worth noting that I know someone who got their fingers burned badly in this business.

Philip Whiteman

I don't ride sportives anymore since swapping whole heartedly to audaxing. But there are still a few good sportives around that I would enter if I had the time.

I share Bobbinogs perspective about being sanguine on the matter. The Mad March Hare is a great event and at reasonable value - Paul provides all with what they really need. One 'expensive event' that was worth every penny was the Autumn Epic when operated by Epic Cycles. Their £25 fee provided an excellent route - excellent controls - excellent back-up - excellent free food at the finish. On the other hand, other events which include incomplete and dismal signage, half a banana at a control and a free cup of coffee at the finish line for £30 - then no thanks, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

KentPuncheur

NITR8s wrote:

This organisers are making a fotune out of these events, if you do the maths an average sportive with 750 entrys at £27 per person gets a total of £20250.

You mean to say some professional companies are trying to make a profit out of organised sportives and not from the kindness of their hearts!? Shocking...

Personally, I have no problem with organised companies trying to make a profit from the booming sportive market, its enterprise after all. My opinion comes down simply to, if it's no good, I won't go back. If it's good, and value for money, I will return. As will other cyclists, therefore the event will sustain itself through returning revenue and demand. If it is over priced and not considered value for money, people will stop going and the event will either cease to be, or reduce its price accordingly...simple market dynamics.

Remember that the sportive market is relatively young and has grown rapidly in the past 2 years. When the market begins to mature, then the value for money events with last, but the over-priced and unpopular events will become unviable for the organisers. Once this happens, price competitiveness will kick in, hopefully. In the meantime, keep looking for well priced and good value events that you enjoy, or if price still is a problem, ride some audax events?

P_Tucker

If you don't like it, why not turn up on the day and ride without paying? Now I know you won't get a "free" T-shirt or waterbottle, nor see your name in the pantheon of mediocrity that is a sportive "result" sheet, but since its all about the route and/or atmosphere, who cares?

verylonglegs

KentPuncheur wrote:

Remember that the sportive market is relatively young and has grown rapidly in the past 2 years. When the market begins to mature, then the value for money events with last, but the over-priced and unpopular events will become unviable for the organisers. Once this happens, price competitiveness will kick in, hopefully. In the meantime, keep looking for well priced and good value events that you enjoy, or if price still is a problem, ride some audax events?

Pretty much like music festivals, some have been pulled in the last few years due to saturation of the market, there were only so many weekends over the summer and quite a few were suffering from poor ticket sales. Sportives will reach the same point.

wallace_and_gromit

P_Tucker wrote:

...the pantheon of mediocrity that is a sportive "result" sheet...

I'm not sure this really adds to the debate. I'm sure everyone doing sportives wishes they could ride like Eddy Merckx, but life isn't always that kind. In fact, riding a sportive is the only opportunity I get for riding past people who haven't stopped for a p** or a mechanical, and in such circumstances, I can sometimes imagine I am riding like Eddy Merckx in his pomp. It's a better feeling than getting another pasting on the Club Run, even if it is nothing more than mediocrity.

NITR8s

Got a name for my sportive, as its going to be held on the Quantocks in Somerset, it shall be called,

THE QUANTOCK LEAP!!!!!

Build it and they shall come

bompington

NITR8s wrote:

Got a name for my sportive, as its going to be held on the Quantocks in Somerset, it shall be called,

THE QUANTOCK LEAP!!!!!

Build it and they shall come

Don't let the crudcatcher crowd in on it or else it would have to wind up with a name based on Dead Woman's Ditch...

BillyMansell

butcher_boy wrote:

Or you could organise your own, charging far less and see how you get on.

Alternatively, if he's going to ask people to pay money then organise a not-for-profit charity cycle event*. It's considerably more honourable to be doing something positive for those less fortunate than be motivated to disprove the business model of another commercial interest.



* the biggest charity ride around has been running for years and attracts many hundreds of cyclists of all ages and abilities, raising tens of thousands each year for a local hospice. I always ride the longer route whilst my dad, who's 75, is still capable of doing the hilly 25 mile circuit.

NITR8s

Name suggestion update: The Quantock Theory

If and I mean If i did arrange a sportive, the idea would be to buck the trend of these expensive sportives and offer a low cost sportives with the main essential elements. Therefore I would be looking to recover enough money to pay for the various costs and time to arrange it. No doubt if it did turn out to be sucussful then I would be looking to donate to charity, but as i couldnt predict that the first aim would be to recover the cost to hold the sportive.

napoleond

Market forces apply.
The crap/overpriced ones will struggle.
What to one person seems as overpriced however, another will see as pocket money.
Polocini seem to have got it right, excellent food, nearly your entry fee's worth in nutrition products alone and best of all no timing/results sheet. Because it isn't a race. If you want to time it time it, or if you want to compare you are encouraged to upload to Strava.

jimmythecuckoo

One of the challenges I have is that for a year or so they were priced at a reasonable rate and then boomed to the standard £20 plus they are now.

jibberjim

Isn't the problem with sportive costs that the profit comes from use of a public utility - whilst this is of course no unique in the world, it is very unusual that there's no regulation required behind it - normally similar things you require council permission to use parks, police permission to use roads etc. Which may or may not cost money, and allows the regulator to limit disruption of the utility.

chipperleenie

butcher_boy wrote:

Or you could organise your own, charging far less and see how you get on.

That's exactly what we have done. Rather than criticising others for making money which a lot of people are still more than willing to pay, I organised one myself for the club. £10 entry fee last year and got 198 entries, makes enough profit to boost the club funds to enable us to put on races, youth training sessions etc.

It is not difficult and the costs are not great, we get some support from energy drink suppliers, coupled with home made food (that seems to go down a lot better with most riders than energy bars). You need less people helping to put on a sportive than you do an open road race or time trial.

The companies that run the larger ones (or some are only individuals) are making a good profit, but then if that is theri salary then they need to. There is nothing involved in organising a sportive that your average cycling club or group of cyclists cannot do just as well.

I would love to see more sportives organised by clubs at a decent price level. £10 to £15 is in my opinion the right level for what you get out of it. This still enables clubs/charities to get a decent payback from the event.

Ours is being run again this year for a good value £12, you still receive a goody bag, plus entry into a raffle which could win a £400 bike bag, Rapha jersey and other prizes, a fully signed route, feedstations, BC insurance etc etc. In other words all that you would expect from any other sportive. Field limited to 300 riders purely because of the car parking issue. You can enter here if you think it is good value for money:
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/77493/Peterborough-Cycling-Club-Sportive

SportiveRater

There are good sportives and bad sportives, just as there are bad businesses and good ones. Some put the riders experience first some put profits first, some think that a t-shirt and a goodie bag are the way forward and others think electronic timing and closed roads will pull in the punters. As many have said you pays your money and takes your choice.

*shameless plug alert*
If you are serious about setting up a sportive then good luck to you. I had a similar sentiment to you but rather than set up a sportive I have set up an independent free website so riders can share their experiences and rate some of the fundamentals that make a good sportive. Feel free to use so the good ones survive and the bad ones adapt or die.

_andy

I very much enjoy the sportives and will be doing probably 8 or so or so this year, some of them run by a large well known company that ryhmes with giggle!!

I totally agree that they are not cheap though and have increased noticeably over the past few years. Personally I enter for the event really, I love riding with other people in mass events such as these you get to meet all sorts of people on all sorts of different bikes, yes its 27 quid but I could easily spend that twice over in the pub the night before or I could be out on Sunday on the bike having a good day and being healthy.

I have to say though that on a lot of them, they could do away with the goody bag at the end as a half of them are just rubbish anyway, I would rather just get decent signage, marshalling and good event location rather than a load of freebies at the end which I usually end up giving away or ditching, just my personal opinion, Im sure some of them are really good, just that I have experienced some equally bad ones including an event a few years ago where they ran out of contents and just handed out an empty bag half way through!!.

Personally I think the pricing has reached its limit, if they go up anymore I think the participation could start to waver a little, maybe not for the large scale events such as fred whitton or dragon but perhaps for some of the smaller ones. I would welcome events such as Chiperleenie describes above!

TheStone

It's still fairly early days and market forces should find the correct level some time soon.
My guess would be somewhere between £12-20, with the odd exception above.

A sportive has to add something above riding on your own or within a group on the same course. Creating a course can't really be included (as anyone can do that). Signing a course becomes less necessary as more and more people get GPS units.

So really, you're looking at the start/finish set-up, feed stops and atmosphere. You look at the price and take your choice. Personally the £20 is nothing compared to the 5-10 hrs of suffering, but there is a point where the cost just seems cheeky ... or the very worst situation where the fact it's a sportive has actually hindered your day. (i.e. an hour+ wait to register and get started).

Stedman

At the back of my mind is there is always a slight query relating to the fiduciary relationship between the organisers and their nominated charity? I have assumed that all monies collected go directly to the charity, however as this is clearly not the case with chugger businesses, this does raise the question at the back of my mind that some event organisers may even have a similar arrangement. :?:

If sportives were represented by a representative body, this is the type of question which we could openly ask. :idea:

Le Commentateur

The biggest events are run as businesses and will cover their overheads first before the charity sees any leftovers. If you want a mass event (say over a couple of hundred entrants) that is well-run then that's the way it has to be unless you have a band of generous individuals (such as a cycling club – possibly) who will volunteer their time and skills planning, signing, photographing, timing, catering, driving etc, for free.

dead sheep

Stedman wrote:

At the back of my mind is there is always a slight query relating to the fiduciary relationship between the organisers and their nominated charity? I have assumed that all monies collected go directly to the charity, however as this is clearly not the case with chugger businesses, this does raise the question at the back of my mind that some event organisers may even have a similar arrangement. :?:

This an important and pertinent question. There is a danger in simplifying; Commercial = Bad and Charity = Good, as there may not always be a clear seperation. In truth, I suspect that some charities are compelled to contract sportive management to an external supplier due to a local of internal expertise or logistical capacity. As a result the charity might only take a cut as a percentage or after a fixed fee.

Equally, I have heard of some 'charity events' which are not directly charitable at all. The event fee goes straight to the organiser with riders then given a sponsorship form to raise extra cash for a nominated charity.

Ethically speaking, charitable sportives need to be clear about how much revenue is used for charitable purposes. Otherwise their activities could be regarded as misleading entrants who joined the event with good intent to raise money for good causes.

nickel

NITR8s wrote:

Got a name for my sportive, as its going to be held on the Quantocks in Somerset, it shall be called,

THE QUANTOCK LEAP!!!!!

Build it and they shall come

Pretty sure these guys are way ahead of you.......

http://www.somersetgranfondo.co.uk/index.html

Sure its 25quid on the day but I signed up back in December and it only cost 15 quid, and that only rose to 19 for online entry.