Old Raleigh from 80s frame vs new frames - speed?

GordonFreeman

I've currently got an old Raleigh road bike form the 80s with updated components.
Still seems to work well but I can't help but see some people going faster on some newer bikes. Is this a combination of more lightweight bikes, better drivetrain, and stamina? How much will a few extra kgs on the frame make a difference to speed?
I should add that I'm only commuting in the morning, just wanted to get a bit faster

night_porter

You could almost gaurantee that extra weight makes very little difference, I know most people will disagree but I can prove it.

My commuter bike carries all of my clothes for the week on Monday and then returns them along with between 5 and 10 small bottles of Coke on a Friday. This adds about 12kgs to the weight of my bike. My journey always takes a very similar amount of time regardless of the weight of the bike. Except when it starts to rain on my way home and then the journey gets quicker.

I cycle commute 24 miles a day and have done so for the last 3 years and the time to ride this has reduced but only if I measure over quite long periods of time. Also my bike has changed from a hybrid to a 14kg roadie with rack to a sub 10kg roadie with a rack.

Fitness/stamina will give the greatest improvemnet but it doesn't come overnight. Try leaving 5 minutes later for a week and see what time you arrive at work. If no change then knock a further 5 minutes off and keep doing this a week/month at a time and see how much you can improve your time without arriving at work late every day.

jim453

Do you work in a shop? Why do you only steal bottles of coke on a friday?

Oh, and interesting 'proof'.

GordonFreeman

night_porter wrote:

You could almost gaurantee that extra weight makes very little difference, I know most people will disagree but I can prove it.

My commuter bike carries all of my clothes for the week on Monday and then returns them along with between 5 and 10 small bottles of Coke on a Friday. This adds about 12kgs to the weight of my bike. My journey always takes a very similar amount of time regardless of the weight of the bike. Except when it starts to rain on my way home and then the journey gets quicker.

I cycle commute 24 miles a day and have done so for the last 3 years and the time to ride this has reduced but only if I measure over quite long periods of time. Also my bike has changed from a hybrid to a 14kg roadie with rack to a sub 10kg roadie with a rack.

Fitness/stamina will give the greatest improvemnet but it doesn't come overnight. Try leaving 5 minutes later for a week and see what time you arrive at work. If no change then knock a further 5 minutes off and keep doing this a week/month at a time and see how much you can improve your time without arriving at work late every day.

what about clip in shoes vs just a normal pedal?

night_porter

jim453 wrote:

Do you work in a shop? Why do you only steal bottles of coke on a friday?

Oh, and interesting 'proof'.

LMAO I do not steal them, I get a bottle of drink with every free meal at work and take them home in my panniers on Friday and give them to my daughter. The rest of the week the panniers are left at work and bottles of coke are too big for my pockets.

alihisgreat

GordonFreeman wrote:

I've currently got an old Raleigh road bike form the 80s with updated components.
Still seems to work well but I can't help but see some people going faster on some newer bikes. Is this a combination of more lightweight bikes, better drivetrain, and stamina? How much will a few extra kgs on the frame make a difference to speed?
I should add that I'm only commuting in the morning, just wanted to get a bit faster

A newer lighter bike will make you faster.. just not by a significant amount lighter/more aero wheels will make most of the difference.

It also depends on what kind of riding you do.. because if you're rolling up some big climbs you will appreciate having a lighter and stiffer modern bike more than if you are cycling on the flat in East Anglia..

Bobbinogs

Heh heh, this could descend into an average speed type debate but my view is that your main point seems to stem from the fact you've been scalped a few times and wonder if it is the other bike doing this or the rider So, if someone is going faster than you there are a load of variables that on a commute you simply cannot control: Is the faster rider late for work, did they only just start and/or have a short commute, are they doing some intervals as part of their commute, do they just want to overtake another rider (don't underestimate this factor)??? etc, etc.

I have been scalped quite a few times in the early part of long rides (sportives, etc.) only to saunter past the 'race' leaders about 30 miles later when they have run out of legs...then again, some folks who have passed me I have never seen again as they really were in a different league to me (there is always someone better, always someone worse).

When I swap between any of my 3 road bikes (an alu one from '89, a steel from '97 and a sportive type modern alu with bling wheels and finishing kit) I definitely notice the different rides but do not go noticeably faster on one particular bike. I do smile more on 2 of the bikes though . Having said that, having a lighter overall ride will undoubtedly make one faster, but it is all a question of degrees and overall weight. Imagine the scenario where a rider with a lighter/modern bike is up against an equal rider who has 10kg of panniers strapped to his bike...or has an extra 10 kgs worth of fat around the middle..the main factors there are not the bike itself. Finally, I wouldn't fancy my chances on a TT against Cad Evans on a Carerra if I was on a Spesh Venge.

So, a nice lighter modern bike can help you go faster but lot of things can help you go faster...but faster than someone else is another thing all together.

keef66

5 bottles of coke a week? How guilty are you going to feel when your daughter's teeth fall out?

Zoomer37

Save your money and just learn to push down on the pedals harder

NITR8s

Bobbinogs wrote:

I have been scalped quite a few times in the early part of long rides (sportives, etc.) only to saunter past the 'race' leaders about 30 miles later when they have run out of legs...then again, some folks who have passed me I have never seen again as they really were in a different league to me (there is always someone better, always someone worse).
{/quote]

Noticed this on the first sportive I done last sunday, some riders i was struggling to keep up with after about 20 miles I went whizzing passed them in the last 10 miles of the 70 mile ride. Leaves you with such a grin on your face.

As for a cyclist just wanting to overtake, I can vouch that this is proberbly the biggest factor. I am guilty of purposly flat out sprinting on an old bmx in order to overtake a guy on a road bike. I stopped and hid when i got round the corner as I could no way have continued at that pace. God knows how the guy on the road bike felt but I thought it was funny.

craker

I took the gears of my old Raleigh. It made it faster.

* OK there's still 1 gear left
** subject to the usual caveats. On my commute on this bike its generally quicker because I have to try harder.

night_porter

keef66 wrote:

5 bottles of coke a week? How guilty are you going to feel when your daughter's teeth fall out?

Who said she drinks them?

Don't tell me you have never bathed in Diet Coke before?

neeb

Using a bike that old will make a bit of a difference, but not much. The main things allowing other people go faster are more fitness, and (just as importantly) more experience riding. Just getting your current bike set up properly (ideal saddle position and reach etc) will make more of a difference than a newer bike for average speeds over a given route.

That's not to say that a newer bike that is lighter, stiffer and with better wheels won't feel much better to ride. You will notice the difference more in responsiveness and ability to accelerate quickly than in average speeds over a flattish route however. Think of it like the difference between driving a Ferrari and bog-standard car, where you still have to stick to the speed limit in each case (the speed limit is your fitness and experience). With the Ferrari you will be able to accelerate much faster, have better control etc. but it isn't going to get you from A to B that much more quickly as long as you have to stick to the speed limit.

rolf_f

Put it this way - given the same gearing (and the 80s bike might be slowed by tough gear ratios) the weather will have a far greater impact on your ride time than the bike will. For example, my Carbon Ribble is now away for repair so I have been riding my 1990 Dawes tourer which is pretty heavy (triple, mudguards, rack, 501 tubes etc etc) compared to a quality 80s racer. My fastests commutes for the year so far have been on the Dawes - that's down to either air temperature, maybe favourable wind conditions (maybe connected with the time of year) or more likely a combination of the two. My best times on the Ribble are usually a minute or so quicker (29 something vs 30 something for the Dawes for 9.5 miles). It's not much.